Two Vintage [I Think] Dip Pens

[corgicoupe]

These two pens were given to my daughter. I would like to hear about them from the experts.

 

Esterbrook 314 nib

 

Edward Todd C3 nib

 

The Esterbrook nib is black with ink at the tip. The Edward Todd nib is pristine. Both nibs are gold/brass color and neither is attracted by a magnet. What does she have? TIA

[Bo Bo Olson]

I think they are vintage too...celluloid has been in use since 1880 when it replaced ivory for billiard balls. Replaced ivory and deadly to make mother of pearl also.

I can't date them....but are very nice.

[AAAndrew]

The top one is agate and the bottom one is mother of pearl. Most likely around the last decade or so of the 19th-century. If you can tell me exactly what the impression on the Esterbrook is, I can at least give you an idea of when it was last used, within a range.

 

Both are quite nice. The Edward Todd should be a gold nib and looks a little like a traveling pen. Need a clearer picture.

[corgicoupe]

314 across the nib just behind the tine slit.

R.ESTERBR(OOK) along the axis, in () is hidden in the holder

RELIE(F)

MADE IN U(SA)

 

The Edward Todd has retractable nib, probably for traveling.

 

Closeup photos tomorrow.

Edited November 24, 2017 by corgicoupe

[sidthecat]

If the tipping is intact, those are a couple of swell pens. Some careful cleaning is in order, and a loupe should reveal any tine or tipping issues.

 

She’s a lucky girl.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Agate! Ok ....didn't even think real on that.

A bit of polish will tell if mother of pearl or celluloid.

[corgicoupe]

I don't think the tails are plastic, as they feel very cool when touched to one's tongue, whereas plastic feels warm. This indicates that it is probably crystalline, that the thermal conductivity is greater than plastic.

Edited November 24, 2017 by corgicoupe

[Vintagepens]

The top pen's taper is probably glass, rather than actual hardstone -- though both are possibilities.

The Esterbrook nib was/is disposable, cheap, not tipped, and not expected to last long before being replaced.

The Edward Todd nib is gold, tipped, and intended for years if not decades of use.

 

Note that the supposed toxicity of mother-of-pearl dust is a myth. You'd want to use a dust mask or respirator if doing a lot of work cutting or grinding shells, but the stuff isn't poisonous.

[ENewton]

Lovely pens!

[AAAndrew]

Interesting, the Esterbrook was made sometime between 1935 and whenever they stopped making Relief pens, probably very early 1950’s. Someone was using this dip pen that late. My imagination conjure us a prim old lady not willing to give into this nephew-fangled fountain pen things. Dip pens were good enough for her young life, they’re good enough for her now. If you think about it, an 80-year-old in 1945 would have had little choice but to write with a dip pen for the first 45-50 years of her life.

 

And David’s right, probably glass with that level of transparency. But meant to look like the expensive agate pens you could buy. Goldstone was another popular hard stone they liked to use.

[corgicoupe]

"My imagination conjure us a prim old lady not willing to give into this nephew-fangled fountain pen things. Dip pens were good enough for her young life, they’re good enough for her now. If you think about it, an 80-year-old in 1945 would have had little choice but to write with a dip pen for the first 45-50 years of her life."

 

And here I am at 78 thinking about trying my hand at one for the first time!

[AAAndrew]

"My imagination conjure us a prim old lady not willing to give into this nephew-fangled fountain pen things. Dip pens were good enough for her young life, they’re good enough for her now. If you think about it, an 80-year-old in 1945 would have had little choice but to write with a dip pen for the first 45-50 years of her life."

 

And here I am at 78 thinking about trying my hand at one for the first time!

 

Which just goes to show that not all 80-year-olds are as set in their ways. Good on ya! I'm only a couple of decades away myself. I'll be trying new things until I'm in the ground.

[sidthecat]

My in-laws had their own computers in their eighties and nineties. They would have sneered at my obsolete pens.

[Vintagepens]

Dip pens were on the customer counters in US Post Offices up until the Eisenhower administration. JFK used Esterbrook dip pen and inkwell combinations when President.

[corgicoupe]

 

"Which just goes to show that not all 80-year-olds are as set in their ways. Good on ya! I'm only a couple of decades away myself. I'll be trying new things until I'm in the ground."

 

Do you have any suggestions for books that could help one to learn, say, the Palmer method of writing with these pens?

Edited January 14, 2018 by corgicoupe

[AAAndrew]

Most vintage writing systems have their books online somewhere. A Palmer book can be found here. https://archive.org/details/palmermethodofbu00palmrich

 

If you are interested in decorative writing, IAMPETH has some good stuff. This page shows some of the standard scripts.

https://www.iampeth.com/video/offhand-flourishing/left-handed/different-styles-pointed-pen-scripts

 

If you just want to practice handwriting, learn the basics of how to use a steel pen. (here’s where I plug my site, check out pen basics and using a steel pen sections in my table of contents) https://thesteelpen.com/2017/11/18/the-steel-pen-table-of-contents/.

 

Then find a penmanship exemplar you like, mix and match letters if you like one “F” over another, for example. Then practice, practice, practice. There are a lot of styles that were promoted over the years. Look up Italian Roundhand, Vertical Writing, and more. It’s fun!

[corgicoupe]

Where do you buy your steel nibs? What kind should one buy? What is a reasonable price? I'm not only thinking of replacements for the agate, but I'm thinking about trying to turn some holders on my wood lathe.

[AAAndrew]

It depends on what kind of writing you want to try. If you're just looking for a general writing kind of nib, then Esterbrook 048 Falcons, which are plentiful and relatively cheap on eBay, would work quite well. They were the #1 selling steel pen in America for about 70 years. Or any of the Turner & Harrison, Eagle or Hunt pointed pens. Most any of those brands that you can get inexpensively would be general writers.

 

If you're looking for decorative writing, then I'd buy a few Zebra G nibs, which are currently made, as a good beginner nib. John Neal Booksellers is an online retailer who I really like, and they have a lot of supplies for dip pens, including the nibs. But on a nib-by-nib cost, they will be a bit more expensive than buying a partial box off of eBay, but you'll have a better idea of what you're getting.

 

If you have a wood lathe and want to turn your own straight holders, like the agate ones, then you'll need an insert for the pen. These are also sold on eBay and here on John Neal Books. They insert into the end of the wooden shaft and hold the pen, as I describe in my blog.

[corgicoupe]

I do have a wood lathe, and have turned some fountain pens using kits, and I've ordered the inserts from John Neal. The agate pen has a 314 nib, so I ordered 6 more of those for about $10. I have seen a listing for a 048 Falcon and a 442 Jackson stub. I have those two in J-series Esterbrook fountain pens and considered getting both of them. They were listed at $3.00 each. Is that a reasonable price? This is beginning to look like fun.

 

Edit... I'm not an eBay buyer, so I'd prefer to deal with John Neal for individual nibs, even if they are more costly. The ones I mentioned were listed on South City Art Supply in St Louis.

Edited January 15, 2018 by corgicoupe