Inks That Contain Phenol/biocide/anti-Mold Components?

[djmaher]

Hello all,

 

Has there ever been a somewhat definitive listing as to inks that have some type of agent that battles/stops mold in their formulations?

 

I know that manufacturers are loathe to divulge formulas, but I'm curious as to any info that's out there. I'm also aware that changes happen in formulas from time to time, and there may be no definitive way to know such info.

 

I'd be interested in hearing manufacturer's statements, and personal experiences of members here, based on use, ink smell, experience and testing. Links here would be great.

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

[Olya]

What I understand from reading here for ages now, is that European (& US American?) inks have no phenol anymore, whereas Japanese do. (You might count Monteverde inks as European too, as the ink is made and bottled in Europe according to Monteverde).

 

That's as extensive as I can go..

[Runnin_Ute]

It's my understanding that whether a company uses phenol as its biocide or something else, virtually all of the commercially available inks do use some sort of biocide.

[lapis]

A few years back (4-5-6?), some Herbins (at least among the standard 30) were found to grow mold. Sam more than chipped in and wrote a most meritorious report on that. Whether thereunto pertaining or not, many of those (if not all) were quite mercifully replaced by Herbin and then, ASAIK, reissued to contain some and/or more biocides. That also happened (IIRC) to a couple of MBs like their Lavender and the LEs Golden Yellow or Pink.

[djmaher]

Someone told me, as well, that Japanese inks often use a biocide in them, and that you can often tell by the smell (Which I wouldn't necessarily be familiar with)

 

I have a few of the Sailor inks (the Jentle Ink series, the "new" ones), and am curious if anyone has experience with them in this regard.

 

I ask, as I seem to have sorted out my mold/fungus issue in my P51. I had flushed that pen with water, then set it aside. I then discovered my first-ever issue with mold about a month later. Stupidly, I inked the pen with said Sailor ink, discovered that I probably had mold on/in my pen afterwards, panicked (), un-inked the pen, cleaned it of the external mold, flushed it, and let it sit again, capped, to see if the mold would grow back.

 

After a month, no mold or fungus visible!

 

Could I have unknowingly "treated" my pen with the Sailor ink, and killed the mold/fungus? It's not returned since I did that. No visible trace.

 

Ideas?

[praxim]

No trace with the pen inked? Mould will not grow without moisture, nor will it simply go away after a month of being dry.

 

I have no knowledge of the Sailor ink and its chemistry. I suggest a direct mould treatment for the pen though. Someone familiar with Parkers (I have none of those either) may be able to advise what is safe for that pen.

[Chrissy]

Someone advised me that they treat their Organics Studio ink bottles with some drops of phenol to try to prevent any mould growth. It doesn't seem to alter the ink, but I don't have any phenol and can't get any here in the UK so I can't experiment with it.

[Inkling13]

Pilot Blue-Black certainly has the phenol smell of a cadaver/anatomy lab. Wonderful ink.

[Olya]

On the mould issue with Herbin inks some years ago: I didn't use fpens at the time, much less knew about this forum, but from what I've read here and on blogs, it is said that they didn't use distilled water at the time, but basically tap water and that was for some reason contaminated. Afterwards they switched to distilled water.

I have no idea whether this is what happened.

Interestingly as pointed out above Montblanc's inks have had issues and if I'm not mistaken Pelikan's in the 1990s or so.

 

It is very possible that a fill with a Sailor ink killed the mould growth in a pen. I read here often that inks that are growing mould can be saved by sieving out the mould and then treating the remaining ink with phenol or using a drop or so of phenol as precaution straight after purchase.

 

Any idea where and how to get phenol in Europe? There's that US site (natural pigments) often referred, anyone ordered from it (and had it shipped to Europe)? Is phenol otherwise obtainable in Europe?

[lapis]

This won't help but it might illuminate w/a. I tried to order it directly from a chemical manufacturer/distributor like Merck and Sigma but no way. You have to be an industrial or university lab to do so. I also tried to buy personally a gram or two from a drugstore/apothecary but they too weren't allowed to order any even for their "own use".

 

Belch

[welch]

A few years ago, there was a discussion of Parker's Solv-X and whether it might have been Ask any of us old enough, and we will say that Quink withj Solv-X smells like ink. Was it the smell of phenol? User "Corniche" discovered the ingredients of Solv-X, although not the proportion of each ingredient. He thinks that phenol was the fungicide in Solv-X and that amyl-xanthale was the flow-enhancer.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/174781-what-happened-to-solv-x/page-2

 

19 November 2010

Greetings all,

I may have cracked the case. While the name Solv-X is not mentioned by name, there are allusions to it's purported qualities in an old patent application. I believe Solv-X was a combination of Phenol, (fungicide) and amyl-xanthale, a flow enhancer. The latter chemical is referred to in the followings ways; "flow promoter" and "the trend of flotation." I think Phenol was the "solvent," (Solv) and the amyl-xanthale provided the "X." Hence, Solv-X.

Parker Ink Patent

Best regards,

Sean

PS: Perhaps one of our resident scientists could check out the patent app. and confirm or rebuke my thesis- I'm not a professional scientist, I'm a hobbyist scientist, and one who is often in a good bit of pain or discomfort- so maybe I missed something- but I think I got it!

Incidentally, great discussion of Phenol and fungicide and Solv-X in that thread: it appears that phenol was determined to be a carcinogenic about 1993. Best I can tell, it is banned in the EU and the US.

 

See, also:

 

this discussion from 2015 https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/292295-what-was-solv-x-in-quink/

or this, from 2009: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/99935-just-what-is-solv-x/

Edited January 1, 2018 by welch

[Maurizio]

What’s the problem with phenol? A known carcinogen? Or do you just not like its smell?

 

I use both Sailor Jentle blue and black inks, and Pilot Blue & Iroshizuku (among others).

 

I love the flow properties of Sailor Jentle inks (at least the ones I’ve used). I do think they have what I describe as an “industrial” smell. It doesn’t bother me, but I do acknowledge it. Is that the phenol I’m sensing? Neither Pilot Blue nor my Iroshiizuku Tsuyu-Kusa have that smell. I also think, untouched, the Sailor Jentle inks flow better than the Pilot inks.

 

I say “untouched” because I’m a big ink adulterer and add both glycerin and Liqutex Flow Aid to all my inks; I like my inks wet. So far, I’ve had no problems with mold in my inks even though I think glycerin could serve as a mold-feeding medium and I assume that’s because all the inks I’ve played with contain a sufficient amount of mold-inhibiting substances.

 

I described what I do in this post last year:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/321641-shocking-ink-adulteration/

[welch]

What’s the problem with phenol? A known carcinogen? Or do you just not like its smell?

 

I use both Sailor Jentle blue and black inks, and Pilot Blue & Iroshizuku (among others).

 

I love the flow properties of Sailor Jentle inks (at least the ones I’ve used). I do think they have what I describe as an “industrial” smell. It doesn’t bother me, but I do acknowledge it. Is that the phenol I’m sensing? Neither Pilot Blue nor my Iroshiizuku Tsuyu-Kusa have that smell. I also think, untouched, the Sailor Jentle inks flow better than the Pilot inks.

 

I say “untouched” because I’m a big ink adulterer and add both glycerin and Liqutex Flow Aid to all my inks; I like my inks wet. So far, I’ve had no problems with mold in my inks even though I think glycerin could serve as a mold-feeding medium and I assume that’s because all the inks I’ve played with contain a sufficient amount of mold-inhibiting substances.

 

I described what I do in this post last year:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/321641-shocking-ink-adulteration/

 

There is discussion of phenol in the "what happened to Solv-X" threads. EU and US appear to have declared it a carcinogen in large quantities. One FPN member (a doctor?) says that it is poisonous in larger quantities, especially to children...as in "don't drink from an ink bottle".

[Maurizio]

Ah . . . thanks for enlightening me.

 

Does anyone know if Sailor indeed uses phenol and that that’s the cause of the “industrial” scent of the ink?

 

I don’t think any company releases their formulas or even their ingredients without proportions, but are there any insiders here who can enlighten us about any ingredients of Sailor or Pilot ink?

[Olya]

This won't help but it might illuminate w/a. I tried to order it directly from a chemical manufacturer/distributor like Merck and Sigma but no way. You have to be an industrial or university lab to do so. I also tried to buy personally a gram or two from a drugstore/apothecary but they too weren't allowed to order any even for their "own use".

 

Belch

 

Actually that is helpful, as I now at least know for sure what won't work!

[Bookman]

Does Canada allow residents to purchase phenol for "personal use," i.e., purchase in relatively small quantities to add to bottles of ink? I'm weighing my options.

[ParkerDuofold]

Does Canada allow residents to purchase phenol for "personal use," i.e., purchase in relatively small quantities to add to bottles of ink? I'm weighing my options.

 

Hi Bookman,

 

Go to Natural Pigment's website, bring up their 4% Phenol solution and see if they'll let you buy it with a Canadian address.

 

Nothing ventured... nothing gained. I get Pelikan blue-black delivered to me in the States from Asia... I've never had a problem, yet.

 

 

- Anthony

 

EDITED to correct typo.

Edited January 4, 2018 by ParkerDuofold

[aeba]

Hi Bookman,

 

Go to Natural Pigment's website, bring up their 4% Phenol solution and see if they'll let you buy it with a Canadian address.

 

Nothing ventured... nothing gained. I get Pelikan blue-black delivered to me in the States from Asia... I've never had a problem, yet.

 

 

- Anthony

 

EDITED to correct typo.

Unfortunately that may, or may not mean absolutely zero. They would ship to Finland if I would pay $45 for shipping. Would I hazard that our customs allows that bottle of phenol through? I... don't know.

 

Edit: Of course I don't know if Natural pigments would in fact cancel the order manually after placing the order.

Edited January 4, 2018 by aeba

[inkstainedruth]

 

There is discussion of phenol in the "what happened to Solv-X" threads. EU and US appear to have declared it a carcinogen in large quantities. One FPN member (a doctor?) says that it is poisonous in larger quantities, especially to children...as in "don't drink from an ink bottle".

 

I don't know about other people, but I have zero intention of mimicking Cruella de Ville.... [Don't know about the movies, but in the original novel 101 Dalmatians, which I read when I was a kid, she went to school with Mrs. Darling -- but got expelled for drinking ink! ]

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[djmaher]

No trace with the pen inked? Mould will not grow without moisture, nor will it simply go away after a month of being dry.

 

I have no knowledge of the Sailor ink and its chemistry. I suggest a direct mould treatment for the pen though. Someone familiar with Parkers (I have none of those either) may be able to advise what is safe for that pen.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/329125-could-this-be-mold/

 

To be clear, my pen wasn't dry, but, cleaned and re capped, not air dried or anything like that.

 

This is a first-time experience for me, as to what everybody seems to think is mold. I understand, too, that mold spores are not necessarily visible at all.

 

When I flushed the pen a second time, I removed as much water as I could, and then re capped the pen, to see if I could get the buildup (mold) to come back, assuming the moisture left over and the dark would provide a good growing environment. Plus, I live in mold-central, here in Portland, Oregon.

 

Anyway, it didn't come back, and I thought that perhaps whatever was in the Sailor Jentle ink might have inoculated the pen somehow.

 

This whole process has been a learning curve for me, and I wanted to share it with people here, and get advice and opinions from people with far more experience than I, who post here.

 

I've really been appreciative of all the help. At this point, I'm not entirely sure if I've solved my "problem". I can't say I'm sure what the buildup was in the first place. I mostly didn't want to screw up my other pens and ink, and wanted to know what possible solutions might be available to me if I did.

 

My thanks to all!

 

The journey continues, and I will post updates!

Edited January 6, 2018 by djmaher