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Pelikan Steel Vs Gold Nib


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#41 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 12:29

You need a good coated glass 10 X loupe or a cheap Chinese "40X" loupe which is about the same, then you can see if your tines are aligned. If not push down on the up tine from the breather hole so the tip goes under the other one. Do that 3-4 times and the nib should be aligned. And smoother.

A Cheap Chinese lighted loupe will have to be re-bought a good glass one not, but for the beginning go cheap.

Good glass is a once in a life time buy....good for looking at hallmarks, coins, stamps and splinters in the finger. :)


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 25 November 2017 - 12:31.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany      Info on Bock nibs

 

Due to Mauricio's improved definition of Super-flex, I try not use the term Easy Full Flex, but fail...sigh.

 

Semi-flex is an “almost” flex; not a ‘flex’ nib. It is great for regular writing with a touch of flair. It can give you some fancy; but it is not made for real fancy writing. For bit more of that get a maxi-semi-flex. Both spread tines 3X.  Those are not "Flex" nibs. 

 

Wider than Normal does not exist. Wider than Japanese does. Every company has it's very own standard + slop/tolerance. Developed from the users of it's pens and inks only; not the users or inks of other companies pens. The size you grind a nib to, is your standard only. Paper and ink matter to nib width. Thank god for 1/2 sizes or it would be boring.


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#42 MHBru

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 18:07

Good point. I have an inexpensive 10x and that may be why its difficult to get a nice clear view. Perhaps something better will be a wide investment.

#43 Matlock

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 19:11

Good point. I have an inexpensive 10x and that may be why its difficult to get a nice clear view. Perhaps something better will be a wide investment.

 

I find the Belomo 10x loupe is excellent. 3 element and coated and at a very reasonable price. As Bo Bo says, they are useful for so many things.  


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#44 ernieh

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 15:15

By the way, gentlemen, how about a titanium nib ? Has anyone had any experience

#45 Tresconik

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 16:25

By the way, gentlemen, how about a titanium nib ? Has anyone had any experience

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#46 Matlock

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 20:04

By the way, gentlemen, how about a titanium nib ? Has anyone had any experience

 

Yes, with a Parker T1. Don't go there.


Peter


#47 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 23:47

titanium nib reviews stopped all thought of me getting one.

 

If you want line variation go vintage 400-400nn '50-65, the nibs are gold...and really that don't matter if the steel nib is as good made as by Geha or Osmia.............that era is stub....semi or Maxi-semi-flex.

 

The semi-flex obliques from that era are well worth having....IMO later are a waste of money.


www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany      Info on Bock nibs

 

Due to Mauricio's improved definition of Super-flex, I try not use the term Easy Full Flex, but fail...sigh.

 

Semi-flex is an “almost” flex; not a ‘flex’ nib. It is great for regular writing with a touch of flair. It can give you some fancy; but it is not made for real fancy writing. For bit more of that get a maxi-semi-flex. Both spread tines 3X.  Those are not "Flex" nibs. 

 

Wider than Normal does not exist. Wider than Japanese does. Every company has it's very own standard + slop/tolerance. Developed from the users of it's pens and inks only; not the users or inks of other companies pens. The size you grind a nib to, is your standard only. Paper and ink matter to nib width. Thank god for 1/2 sizes or it would be boring.


#48 AL01

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 03:55

There might be 5 eras....then you need to decide what do you want the nib to do?

 

#1,,,,'29-43 the end of WW2's pen making (including the CN nibs from after Hitler stole the gold in '38) '45-54 for end of the war 100n&Ibis. I have a first stage of superflex...Easy Full Flex 100n, a maxi-semi-flex Ibis and a very disappointing 'regular flex' CN nib when I expected at least maxi to superflex. Some lucked out more than me with their CN nibs.

 

#2 era, is the '50-65 time of semi-flex and an occasional maxi-semi-flex to go with the regular flex 120 school pen. (There was also a H nib that was Hard, and a D nib that was the Nail's nail.)

The Semi/maxi are all stubs and give good line variation, but have to be matched to ink and paper for shading.

 

#3, the spade nibs of the late '60-70's. I never bought any in no one bragged his spade nib from then as semi-flex.

 

#3. The 400 ('82), 200 ('85) and 800 ('87) nibs of the '82-97 er, are not stubs. Before '90 the W. Germany nibs are superb regular flex with a slight tad more spring than the later Germany '90-97 era. Pelikan is narrower than Parker and Sheaffer, not as narrow as Waterman.....Japanese pens were not rated on the chart in Japanese pens were still 'confined to the Island'. The 800 had it's very own width narrower than Pelikan half way to Waterman.

The nibs in this era are regular flex, and I have in steel a pre'90 W.Germany 200 and a Celebry @'97 to 2005. I have a M400, a Celebry and a 381 in gold. I do not have any W.Germany gold nibs but expect them to match my W.Germany 200. The gold regular flex nibs do match my steel ones.

The nibs are 1/2 or more a width narrower than modern, have a nice clean small bump point, so lay a clean line. Regular flex is a good nib for shading, being dryer than semi-flex.

 

#4, modern after '97 nibs. The Ball Point Barbarian Invasion is at full surge, nibs are made into pretzels that could be sold at the O'Fest. The  800's Grand regular flex nib becomes a fat blobby nail. No longer width it's very own width. The clean writing regular flex 400 becomes like the 600 a semi-nail, to prevent bending, and fat and blobby so it can be held like a ball point and written with.

The 800,600 and 400 have double kugal nibs so they can be written like a ball point, in many of the rollerball or ball point users do not have the coordination or the willingness to spend three minutes learning how to hold a fountain pen. The flat and blobby nibs leave a blurry line, and are boring. They can of course be stubbed or made CI. :happyberet:

The steel 200 remains true to it's self, still a springy good riding regular flex with a clean line..

 

If not polished into baby bottom, the fat and blobby stiff nibbed 400.600&800 will be 'butter smooth', got nothing else to offer.....my 605 BB is now a butter smooth 1.0 stub. :lticaptd:

The 200 will be good and smooth, with a clean line and a bit of spring for a nice ride. Same with the 150 steel nibs...which are a bit smaller (like the vintage 140's nib).

 

The good thing about the 400/600 is one can put vintage or semi-vintage nibs on it. For a long time I had a semi-flex B on my 605. :puddle:.............they are still hard to bend.....so you could lend it to a Ball Point Barbarian noobie....... :unsure:  :rolleyes:  :bunny01: Just joking....always carry a ball point for Barbarians....even more important if you have a real nib on your Pelikan.  :closedeyes:

 

Many today don't know what regular flex is, in many companies only make nail and semi-nail nibs. Some folks wonder if regular flex is semi-flex in the tines bend and spread. :doh:

 

I think the springy good riding 200's thinner clean line nibs to be better than the stiff butter smooth, characterless 400/600/800 nibs. The '82-97 gold nibs will match the 200's.

The gold nibs of the '50-65 era are semi-flex or +, and will grand....the 120's nib

 

 Hiya Bo Bo...

 

 I have intentions of having ONE and only ONE Pelikan.

 

 I have tested out a 140 and fell in love with it, before I realized it was some pen collector's.  :yikes:

 

 What would you recommend as my one and only Pelikan?


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#49 ernieh

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 08:31

Finally I have decided to go for M400 and a Cleo Skribent Classic Palladium Piston 14k nib.

The Cleo one works pretty well. I haven't tried the M400 yet.

Edited by ernieh, 03 December 2017 - 08:31.


#50 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 10:37

The 140 is a fine start, it posts as long as a 400......................but if you were to be the only person in the world with only one Pelikan a medium-long 400NN would be the way to go.

Some say it holds more ink than any other Pelikan due to piston design........others say not so.........I keep forgetting to check it out.

If so you'd want a tortoise.........

 

But you do have 4 or more other pens? In most folks are heavy handed when they arrive at semi-flex....I was. It took me some 3 months to lighten my Hand with my 140 OB. My next pen of that era, was a 400NN with a maxi-semi-flex OF :D .

 

I do suggest a semi-flex B nib...in it's narrower than modern by at least a half size, so would be like a fat M...line variation with out having to do anything at all...........I had a '54 400 tortoise's semi-flex B on my 605 for quite a long time. :puddle:

 

The only obliques that are worth buying are the stub semi-flex ones from '50-65........ :doh: ...oh I forgot you are buying only one Pelikan................. :lticaptd: 

Well you could buy an assortment of vintage and semi-vintage nibs............semi-vintage regular flex are real good for shading ink....F or M for that.

Don't go looking down your nose at an M...........a prejudice one can pick up on the com....in folks go narrow or wide from their M and one listens to the idiots blather about M is no good. :headsmack:

I was once one of those idiots. :blush: :rolleyes:


www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany      Info on Bock nibs

 

Due to Mauricio's improved definition of Super-flex, I try not use the term Easy Full Flex, but fail...sigh.

 

Semi-flex is an “almost” flex; not a ‘flex’ nib. It is great for regular writing with a touch of flair. It can give you some fancy; but it is not made for real fancy writing. For bit more of that get a maxi-semi-flex. Both spread tines 3X.  Those are not "Flex" nibs. 

 

Wider than Normal does not exist. Wider than Japanese does. Every company has it's very own standard + slop/tolerance. Developed from the users of it's pens and inks only; not the users or inks of other companies pens. The size you grind a nib to, is your standard only. Paper and ink matter to nib width. Thank god for 1/2 sizes or it would be boring.


#51 AL01

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 14:53

The 140 is a fine start, it posts as long as a 400......................but if you were to be the only person in the world with only one Pelikan a medium-long 400NN would be the way to go.

Some say it holds more ink than any other Pelikan due to piston design........others say not so.........I keep forgetting to check it out.

If so you'd want a tortoise.........

 

But you do have 4 or more other pens? In most folks are heavy handed when they arrive at semi-flex....I was. It took me some 3 months to lighten my Hand with my 140 OB. My next pen of that era, was a 400NN with a maxi-semi-flex OF :D .

 

I do suggest a semi-flex B nib...in it's narrower than modern by at least a half size, so would be like a fat M...line variation with out having to do anything at all...........I had a '54 400 tortoise's semi-flex B on my 605 for quite a long time. :puddle:

 

The only obliques that are worth buying are the stub semi-flex ones from '50-65........ :doh: ...oh I forgot you are buying only one Pelikan................. :lticaptd:

Well you could buy an assortment of vintage and semi-vintage nibs............semi-vintage regular flex are real good for shading ink....F or M for that.

Don't go looking down your nose at an M...........a prejudice one can pick up on the com....in folks go narrow or wide from their M and one listens to the idiots blather about M is no good. :headsmack:

I was once one of those idiots. :blush: :rolleyes:

 

 Hmm...

 

 I should have added that I have full intentions of taking the pen with me as EDC...

 

 (I don't abuse my pens... But I have dealt with crappy plastics on P45s and 21s....)

 

 Yessir, I do. But I also own an Atkin Lambert dip pen from the '80s, (NOT 1980s :P ).

 

 AND HOOOOO BOY is that nib semi - flexy. So I have gained a lighter hand than before, yessir.

 

 Now about how thick are the obliques? 

 

 I have made a 1.1 - 1.2 MM oblique nib from an Esterbrook nib, but it is way too thick for me for regular use.

 

 Any other ways.....

 

 Thank ya Very Much!!

 

 (And I would probably get an F nib.)

 

 EDIT: Splling es vry bd.


Edited by AL01, 03 December 2017 - 14:55.

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#52 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 23:08

1.1 - 1.2 MM.....such numbers tell me absolutely nothing.

I'm stuck in the last century.

A B or OB with any German pen with a semi-flex will be like a fat M, a good writing nib not a signature nib.

I had my fat and blobby BB on my 605 made into a 1.0 stubb (even that told me less than I know...knowing nothing much figured 1.0 would give me a thin 'vintage' B width. ), as far as I can see the semi-flex B I had on it, was thinner.

An OB is easier to find the sweet spot....an OM or OF requires more precise nib placement.

 

First you have to know what grind angle your oblique has 15 or 30 degrees....and that will be pure luck.....I have in a mix of semi-flex and maxi-semi-flex (that too pure luck unless an Osmia) some 13 obliques...In OBB, OB, OM and OF I have one 30 degree grind to match the 'normal' 15 degree grind.

So until you get use to your oblique, use the clip as a sight. For a nib with 15 degrees, aim the clip as you post the cap, in the middle between the slit and the right edge of the nib. That will place the nib exactly right on the paper.

If your nib is 30 degrees of grind, align the clip so it's in line with the right hand edge of the nib, then put the nib to paper and write.

Opps.....do re-grasp the pen after you've aimed the clip....don't look at the nib....which will be canted, then just write.  Shortly you won't need to re-grasp the pen because you will just grasp the pen with the nib canted.

 

Vintage and semi-vintage are at least 1/2 size narrower than modern....out side the 200 which remains true to size of the other eras.

It all depends on what sort of paper you are forced to play with..........poorer paper I can see an F or OF nib, if you hand is anywhere near light............then use a dry ink, Pelikan.....in there will be some nib width spread.

 

A good poster here said, stub and CI was 100% line variation, semi-flex was line variation on demand....................................and I see it as getting some of that old fashioned fountain pen flair with out having to do anything.

 

 

Atkin Lambert dip pen...should be superflex at least....wet noodle should be uncooked vs that.

 

Regular flex, semi-flex and maxi-semi-flex are all in a 3 X tine spread set..........trying for more = $$$ nib repair.

 

Mash a regular flex nibbed pen so you get the 3X max vs a light down stroke.

That is the basis of my system....the starting point. Nails and semi-nails lack tine spread to worry about and even semi-nail can be something for the heavy handed.

 

Semi-flex takes half of that pressure to reach 3X.

Maxi-semi-flex half of that or 1/4th the pressure needed to mash a regular flex to 3X.

 

Superflex....(4, 5&6 or the rare 7X tine spread)..........first stage..Easy Full Flex 1/8th (have 5-6), wet noodle 1/16th (have 2&3rd should be here on Monday), Weak Kneed Wet noodle even less...I have none of them.

 

I have Hunt 99-100-101.........that makes a wet noodle look like it was recovered uncooked and fossilized from Pompey.

 

Do have someone sew a shirt pocket a bit closed...as a pen pocket, or carry it in a leather holster, and any '50-65....140, 400-400nn will do just fine. Any pen dropping will be damaged. Lands End will sew a pen pocket into a shirt if you ask...........that prevents it from every falling out if one bends over..........there should be closer owners of a sewing machine than Land's End.


www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany      Info on Bock nibs

 

Due to Mauricio's improved definition of Super-flex, I try not use the term Easy Full Flex, but fail...sigh.

 

Semi-flex is an “almost” flex; not a ‘flex’ nib. It is great for regular writing with a touch of flair. It can give you some fancy; but it is not made for real fancy writing. For bit more of that get a maxi-semi-flex. Both spread tines 3X.  Those are not "Flex" nibs. 

 

Wider than Normal does not exist. Wider than Japanese does. Every company has it's very own standard + slop/tolerance. Developed from the users of it's pens and inks only; not the users or inks of other companies pens. The size you grind a nib to, is your standard only. Paper and ink matter to nib width. Thank god for 1/2 sizes or it would be boring.


#53 AL01

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 23:21

 Hmm...

 

 I think I may go with an EF, F, or OF.

 

 This may sound like heresy... But I actually put my pens in my jeans pocket, (or breast pocket if things are formal.)

 

 I am a student, so I guess that has to do with something.

 

 I want to say that the Lambert is semi - flex.... But it could be full flex.

 

 1.2 MM is basically 2.4X a Sheaffer medium.

 

 (I used a rula to measure the nib... :lol: )


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#54 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 23:49

Buy a metal Chinese pen.............the Kaweco was designed  in the 30's to be put in a pants pocket......pants pockets and Pelikan =...RIP Pelikan.

Buy or have a belt holster made.......any shoe repair man should be able to sew you a pen pouch for your belt....buckskin would be nice...soft enough, strong enough.

I had a safty knife pouch made when I was working in the Ikea warehouse when I watched idiots cutting holes in very expensive German bought jeans...........no longer working for the Americans and having cheap jeans, made a safety knife pouch,; had a key ring mounted high for the forklift keys. 

 

A belt mounted pen pouch can keep you from having a wet died rear end.


www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany      Info on Bock nibs

 

Due to Mauricio's improved definition of Super-flex, I try not use the term Easy Full Flex, but fail...sigh.

 

Semi-flex is an “almost” flex; not a ‘flex’ nib. It is great for regular writing with a touch of flair. It can give you some fancy; but it is not made for real fancy writing. For bit more of that get a maxi-semi-flex. Both spread tines 3X.  Those are not "Flex" nibs. 

 

Wider than Normal does not exist. Wider than Japanese does. Every company has it's very own standard + slop/tolerance. Developed from the users of it's pens and inks only; not the users or inks of other companies pens. The size you grind a nib to, is your standard only. Paper and ink matter to nib width. Thank god for 1/2 sizes or it would be boring.


#55 Runnin_Ute

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 01:25

Hmm...
 
 I think I may go with an EF, F, or OF.
 
 This may sound like heresy... But I actually put my pens in my jeans pocket, (or breast pocket if things are formal.)
 
 I am a student, so I guess that has to do with something.
 
 I want to say that the Lambert is semi - flex.... But it could be full flex.
 
 1.2 MM is basically 2.4X a Sheaffer medium.
 
 (I used a rula to measure the nib... :lol: )


I use my 140 as a daily (or near daily) carry. Mine is a fine nib. But I keep it in a shirt pocket - out of respect to the pen don't put it in a pants pocket.

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#56 AL01

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 01:44

Buy a metal Chinese pen.............the Kaweco was designed  in the 30's to be put in a pants pocket......pants pockets and Pelikan =...RIP Pelikan.

Buy or have a belt holster made.......any shoe repair man should be able to sew you a pen pouch for your belt....buckskin would be nice...soft enough, strong enough.

I had a safty knife pouch made when I was working in the Ikea warehouse when I watched idiots cutting holes in very expensive German bought jeans...........no longer working for the Americans and having cheap jeans, made a safety knife pouch,; had a key ring mounted high for the forklift keys. 

 

A belt mounted pen pouch can keep you from having a wet died rear end.

 

AH NOOO!!!!  :lol: (I could start ranting about Chinese pens right now...)

 

But the Pen Pouch idea isn't too shabby at all.

 

 (If you look at my profile, all the pens mentioned are carried in me jeans pocket. And yes, I have adjusted all of them to write like smooth "nails". :) )

 

 Which Kaweco? The vintage Sport?

 

 

I use my 140 as a daily (or near daily) carry. Mine is a fine nib. But I keep it in a shirt pocket - out of respect to the pen don't put it in a pants pocket.

 

 It will be done when I get a pen pouch...

 

(Any recommendations?? BTW: My school shirts don't have pockets... )

 

 Your suggestions are appreciated. 

 

 Ahh The more Ya Know!!


Edited by AL01, 04 December 2017 - 01:47.

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#57 Calabria

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 00:05

 
Fully agree with that. I my view, if you like a nib and the way it writes, then it is the best in the world. If you don't like it then it is the worst. It doesn't matter if it is a nail, flex or semi flex, if it is right for you then go for it. It matters not one jot what others think. Of course the same applies to those with very strong views on nib qualities and characteristics, their chosen nib is the best in the world for them. Thankfully we are all very different.,

Fully agree. I just realized that I grew up in the 80s in Germany writing with ball/tipped Pelikanos and then Parker. That has shaped my handwriting, and that's why I like current production nibs. I'll never write copperplate, or any other kind of script requiring flex/italic nibs. I even returned the flexy Pilot FA nib because it just slows down my writing.

Just wanted to say that I grew up writing with fountain pens and am not a ballpoint barbarian, and that the new nibs are great writers for me.

Derek
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#58 Matlock

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 07:26


Just wanted to say that I grew up writing with fountain pens and am not a ballpoint barbarian, and that the new nibs are great writers for me.

Derek

 

Fully agree Derek. It is a popular misconception that ballpoints have dictated the development of modern nibs, nothing could be further from the truth.


Peter


#59 AL01

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 21:53

 

Fully agree Derek. It is a popular misconception that ballpoints have dictated the development of modern nibs, nothing could be further from the truth.

 

 Really??

 

 I think it may have to do with somethin'...

 

 But why are nibs so hard these days anyways??

 

 Pelikan steel nibs, (modern), are pretty hard... But they are quite smooth.

 

 Pelikan Gold nibs, (modern), are really stiff... But they are WAAAAYYYY TOOOO SMOOOOOTTHHH!!!  :P

 

 Pelikan Gold nibs, (50s - 60s), are soft and stiff at the same dang time. They have a pleasant feedback....

 

 Or is it the fact that a softer nib is harder to handle when it has lesser feedback?? (I am just guessing...)


Edited by AL01, 07 December 2017 - 21:53.

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#60 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 23:00

I don't write Copperplate or Spenserian either.............so my superflex nibs are being wasted.

 

My semi-flex nibs are not wasted, they give my scribble, some of that old fashioned fountain pen flair with out me doing a single thing.

I have no problem having to write slower with semi-flex............I'm not drawing the letters....just scribbling like with a nail......but the nib flexes a bit here and there....down strokes are a bit thicker.............but then again it took me some three months to lighten my Hand, when I went over to semi-flex.....but I'd been warned as I warn everyone.

The Ham Fisted tend to max a semi-flex for a while before finally using less and less pressure.

Oddly didn't slow me down any.

 

 

You got to use real poor paper for 'butter smooth' to shine......slick paper is not good for 'butter smooth' at all costs....the nib tends to slide off the paper... :huh:

 

I prefer the level under butter smooth.....'good and smooth'. Of course I have a few butter smooth pens, and a few toothy ones also.

 

I bought a lot of old sat in the dark of the drawer for a couple generations, and they had drag from 'iridium rust'. Being lazy, I only smoothed the drag away, to 'good and smooth'......just like I only finger polished with semi-chrome to well maintained.....not NOS.


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 07 December 2017 - 23:06.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany      Info on Bock nibs

 

Due to Mauricio's improved definition of Super-flex, I try not use the term Easy Full Flex, but fail...sigh.

 

Semi-flex is an “almost” flex; not a ‘flex’ nib. It is great for regular writing with a touch of flair. It can give you some fancy; but it is not made for real fancy writing. For bit more of that get a maxi-semi-flex. Both spread tines 3X.  Those are not "Flex" nibs. 

 

Wider than Normal does not exist. Wider than Japanese does. Every company has it's very own standard + slop/tolerance. Developed from the users of it's pens and inks only; not the users or inks of other companies pens. The size you grind a nib to, is your standard only. Paper and ink matter to nib width. Thank god for 1/2 sizes or it would be boring.







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