Please Help Me Identify A Vintage Pen!

[Tom_Moritz]

Hello all,

Someone an hour away is selling this cool looking pen, but only has one photo with no real description. He's a nice guy and I don't want to tick him off asking lots of questions, thus I ask my friends here! Can anyone identify this pen?

 

EDIT: Sorry guys, either I didn't link it correctly or it didn't link at all. I hate Photobucket.

 

http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah82/The_Black_Librarian/image_zpsjkcffeud.png

 

http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah82/The_Black_Librarian/image_zpsystoca3r.jpeg

 

http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah82/The_Black_Librarian/image_zps3rog96yr.jpeg

Edited November 16, 2017 by ClockworkCollector

[TheRealMikeDr]

Looks like one of those government issued invisible pens

 

Seriously - I don't see a picture or link to a picture.

Edited November 16, 2017 by TheRealMikeDr

[Chrissy]

Which pen?

[Tom_Moritz]

Sorry about that guys!

[ehemem]

?Italian?

 

1920s or 30s?

 

Just my guesses...

[Bo Bo Olson]

Clip looks like a Pfortzheim (Jewelry making center of Germany) overlay. Is there a Hallmark on the pen. Normally for a Pfortzheim pen the mark is on the top attached part of the clip. (I have 3 silver overlays, I guess from Pfortzheim.)

Any other mark, like FG or RG 14/18?

 

Fend (from Pfortzheim) did make fountain pens in Milan....so Italian could be right too.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[Tom_Moritz]

So to close, I ended going and buying the pen. It's a no-name thing that's old, but indeterminable so. It's shot, unfortunately. I got the nib back to writing shape, but the piston seal is shot and the end cap can't be removed.

 

Ink leaks out of the end, it's a mess.

[mitto]

Enjoy looking at the beauty. Do not write with it.

 

On a serious note why don't you send it to a pro to get it repaired?

[Bo Bo Olson]

Agree, even if repair is worth more than value, you have then a working piece of history.

[Tom_Moritz]

Hey guys, the pen is from somewhere in Germany, not sure where. The problem is that the seals on the piston heads are shot and ink is sucked past the rubber and down into the piston screw group which in turn leaks out the piston knob on the pens bottom. The knob I may add is improbably the end piece of the pen, meaning one cannot grip it when screwing the cap down as it would engage the piston.

 

The issue here is that there is no way of actually removing the back end to mend or replace the seals on the piston head, not without breaking the barrel is some capacity. I haven't been able to get the connecting component to budge. Whether its part of the mould or somehow adhered, I doubt it can be fixed.

 

If anyone has any specific suggestions I'm all ears.

[Tom_Moritz]

Clip looks like a Pfortzheim (Jewelry making center of Germany) overlay. Is there a Hallmark on the pen. Normally for a Pfortzheim pen the mark is on the top attached part of the clip. (I have 3 silver overlays, I guess from Pfortzheim.)

Any other mark, like FG or RG 14/18?

 

Fend (from Pfortzheim) did make fountain pens in Milan....so Italian could be right too.

Not sure my friend, there are six facets with two different patterns that alternate every-other facet, The end of the cap tapers to a point, somewhat like a Cross pen or a Kaweco Sport may. The clip says 835 if that means anything, though I assume that may refer to the silver content. For what its worth, the pen came with a Nichrome steel nib, I assume its steel anyhow, which I found odd for a pen with a silver overlay.

 

It actually reminds me a bit of a Sport. Thank you for the information though, I always find it uncanny how someone on these forums always has some information no matter how obscure or old a pen may be.

Edited November 19, 2017 by ClockworkCollector

[Bo Bo Olson]

835 is silver '30's because before that it was 800 silver.

If the pen was late '30's, after '38, then NC nib would have been right, in Hitler stole the gold in summer of '38.

Guillochierte machines were still relatively common pre and just after the war. My silver overlay pens all have only two patterns.

The 835 one I have in hand has chevrons inter-spaced with smooth. Palliag 1st qual nib (could be a Palidium based nib?)..

My 900 silver is pure barley corn.. steel long thin.Luxor nib by Herbine??? German pen company, Heidelberg. So because of the fishbone pattern, think it originally a Luxor pen.

The last 835 counting border, six, six line 'plain' section divided by twice as wide horizontal guillochiering Palliag 1st qual.......

Just broke in half in the section as I was testing to see if it was semi-flex or regular flex on my thumbnail. Which is not a great lot of pressure..............lesson learned when I do that, make sure my fingers are on the section not the ink window.

No warning.........

There are repairmen...as catastrophic as that is....I've still got pens in line for repair that this will not jump the line.

[Tom_Moritz]

835 is silver '30's because before that it was 800 silver.

If the pen was late '30's, after '38, then NC nib would have been right, in Hitler stole the gold in summer of '38.

Guillochierte machines were still relatively common pre and just after the war. My silver overlay pens all have only two patterns.

The 835 one I have in hand has chevrons inter-spaced with smooth. Palliag 1st qual nib (could be a Palidium based nib?)..

My 900 silver is pure barley corn.. steel long thin.Luxor nib by Herbine??? German pen company, Heidelberg. So because of the fishbone pattern, think it originally a Luxor pen.

The last 835 counting border, six, six line 'plain' section divided by twice as wide horizontal guillochiering Palliag 1st qual.......

Just broke in half in the section as I was testing to see if it was semi-flex or regular flex on my thumbnail. Which is not a great lot of pressure..............lesson learned when I do that, make sure my fingers are on the section not the ink window.

No warning.........

There are repairmen...as catastrophic as that is....I've still got pens in line for repair that this will not jump the line.

 

Wow, thanks for the information! I hope you're wrong about my nib because the stupid thing broke! It make a bit of sense though as it didn't feel like a steel nib as I was working on it after. By working on I mean the most difficult grinding down to stub I've even done. No wonder it was such hell doing that grind! It just kept going rough and wide, what a waste!

Someone hold me If you know a repairman who can fix this thing I'd appreciate it if you could share. I'd be interested in your broken pen for parts too if thats of interest to you.

[OMASsimo]

Seems that I'm late to the party and Bo Bo Olsen already delivered most of the info. I wouldn't give up a pen that easily when it comes to repair. The 1930s weren't a time when one-way articles were produced, everything was made such that it could be serviced and repaired for a life-time.

 

Anyway, many piston corks are shrunk after decades of falling dry. It can take a good week of soaking to reestablish such a cork piston seal. That's the first thing I try before even thinking of opening the barrel. It needs some patience to let the water run through the barrel and piston mechanism.

 

The nib is another level of problem. It might be a replacement nib already because such overlay pens were top tier and usually equipped with first quality gold nibs. The original nib might have been broken and maybe was replaced by a steel nib during the dark times of war and shortage. You didn't say how broken the nib is but specialists can do wonders if money is not a concern. Of course, gold is easier to repair than steel. But you might as well find a period replacement nib - and that would actually be in agreement with common practice in the 30s.

 

I hope you can revive and enjoy this beautiful pen.

[Tom_Moritz]

Seems that I'm late to the party and Bo Bo Olsen already delivered most of the info. I wouldn't give up a pen that easily when it comes to repair. The 1930s weren't a time when one-way articles were produced, everything was made such that it could be serviced and repaired for a life-time.

 

Anyway, many piston corks are shrunk after decades of falling dry. It can take a good week of soaking to reestablish such a cork piston seal. That's the first thing I try before even thinking of opening the barrel. It needs some patience to let the water run through the barrel and piston mechanism.

 

The nib is another level of problem. It might be a replacement nib already because such overlay pens were top tier and usually equipped with first quality gold nibs. The original nib might have been broken and maybe was replaced by a steel nib during the dark times of war and shortage. You didn't say how broken the nib is but specialists can do wonders if money is not a concern. Of course, gold is easier to repair than steel. But you might as well find a period replacement nib - and that would actually be in agreement with common practice in the 30s.

 

I hope you can revive and enjoy this beautiful pen.

 

Thank you friend, any info you may have would be of value. I wish I had waited to hear more folks give input. Some research turned up my nib as a steel nib, so I'm no longer sad about that, however I did put a mar the plastic like a monkey dope, nothing that can't be fixed hopefully. It'd be nice if you're right about the cork, as it stands now I have ink passing it and traveling down the screw group and coming out the end. If it seals up that would be nothing should of swell.

 

All this info and I thought this relic was a piece of garbage the way the overlay fell off. All I need now is a decent nib and a dab of shellac and I think this thing is in business. Do you have any idea what size this nib would be?

 

Thanks!

[OMASsimo]

Oh well, patience is the key and I think we all payed our dues - I certainly did. I always try new pens with water before I'm sure the filling mechanism is working. With a pen this age there is perhaps a 50% chance that the cork can be recovered. But even if not, there's certainly a way to unscrew the piston mechanism. Of course, this always comes with the risk of breaking the barrel. I had that happening before.

 

Unfortunately, there apparently wasn't an ASA or DIN norm for nibs and finding the right size is always a toss up. And it's not only the nib but also the feed, both have to fit each other. On the other hand, especially the overlay pens of those days often were made by local jewellers who bought the pen components and only made the overlay and assembled the parts. Most pens of this kind I have seen so far had nibs marked "Warranted 1st quality" and were US imports. You might have a good chance to find a fitting nib of this kind. Again, patience is the key. I wish you good luck because this pen is worth keeping and everything else but garbage.

[Tom_Moritz]

Oh well, patience is the key and I think we all payed our dues - I certainly did. I always try new pens with water before I'm sure the filling mechanism is working. With a pen this age there is perhaps a 50% chance that the cork can be recovered. But even if not, there's certainly a way to unscrew the piston mechanism. Of course, this always comes with the risk of breaking the barrel. I had that happening before.

 

Unfortunately, there apparently wasn't an ASA or DIN norm for nibs and finding the right size is always a toss up. And it's not only the nib but also the feed, both have to fit each other. On the other hand, especially the overlay pens of those days often were made by local jewellers who bought the pen components and only made the overlay and assembled the parts. Most pens of this kind I have seen so far had nibs marked "Warranted 1st quality" and were US imports. You might have a good chance to find a fitting nib of this kind. Again, patience is the key. I wish you good luck because this pen is worth keeping and everything else but garbage.

Thank you friend,

 

I wonder how much it's worth, I paid $40 dollars for it and thought it was too much :lticaptd:I figured that was the case, buying a pen and putting a fitted overlay on it. I quite like it, I bought it for that aesthetic quality. I'll look to see if I can find a warranted 14k, worse case scenario if it doesn't fit this pen I know it will fit my Great Grandfathers V452.

 

He was the Rail master somewhere, in charge of freight manifests and time tables. That said my specimen the preeminent "wet noodle" model that literally fell out of a moving box is an extra extra fine nail, which is still great as I prefer a fine line. Man had the same taste as me, right down to ink color oddly enough.

[Bo Bo Olson]

A 14 K Pfortzheimer Overlay pen, I forgot I have, in it needs a new cork. I paid E150-170 in a live auction, knowing it would need a new cork.....so did the dealers or I'd not got it for less than gold price. If I'd paid more I'd remember. For me the MP was a freebee.

It's a bit small for long writing, so a note taker, with a ring instead of a clip....and sigh....I'm going to have to take it to my B&M and get an eraser for it....sniff.

 

Who made the 'Running Buffalo' nib? I keep forgetting. I think I have two. This one is 585.

I don't have any pictures of my silver ones, in they were lost on Ransom Bucket...and just show the pens closed and not the nibs.

Two of the silver overlay pens have Palliag 1st Qual nibs...Palladium??? The other a Luxor nib by Herlitz...Luxor being a under brand...perhaps Herlitz's top of the line. All four are semi-flex.

Picture from the live auction....so don't show in what I call the "Pfortzheimer Clip" as shown in Clockworkcollectors picture. The silver or gold hallmark is on the clip; either at the bend where it connects to the pen or just on the top of the middle of the clip.

 

Edited November 21, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[Tom_Moritz]

A 14 K Pfortzheimer Overlay pen, I forgot I have, in it needs a new cork. I paid E150-170 in a live auction, knowing it would need a new cork.....so did the dealers or I'd not got it for less than gold price. If I'd paid more I'd remember. For me the MP was a freebee.

It's a bit small for long writing, so a note taker, with a ring instead of a clip....and sigh....I'm going to have to take it to my B&M and get an eraser for it....sniff.

 

Who made the 'Running Buffalo' nib? I keep forgetting. I think I have two. This one is 585.

I don't have any pictures of my silver ones, in they were lost on Ransom Bucket...and just show the pens closed and not the nibs.

Two of the silver overlay pens have Palliag 1st Qual nibs...Palladium??? The other a Luxor nib by Herlitz...Luxor being a under brand...perhaps Herlitz's top of the line. All four are semi-flex.

Picture from the live auction....so don't show in what I call the "Pfortzheimer Clip" as shown in Clockworkcollectors picture. The silver or gold hallmark is on the clip; either at the bend where it connects to the pen or just on the top of the middle of the clip.

 

Very nice! I guess $40 USD for my set cant be so bad a deal then!

 

The nibs that feature a buffalo on them are were made by a company called Nichroma. From what I've read they were upscale student pen nibs used buy many companies, but who knows if that's accurate. They were used by many pen companies at the time from what I understand, so I can only conclude that they were well made nibs to be so popular.

Edited November 22, 2017 by ClockworkCollector

[OMASsimo]

Hi again,

 

I think that $40 was a very good price for such a piece. I also think that "Nichroma" designates the material rather than the company, it's most likely a stainless chrome nickel steel (like V2A or others). I have a silver overlay pen from the 30s with a "warranted 1st quality 14k 585" gold nib with the same buffalo imprint. Those nibs were pretty small, like a #1 nib, but are lovely writers.