Fountain Pen Holy Trinity

[Waltz For Zizi]

In watch brands there is a concept called the holy trinity, which consists of Rolex, Patek and Audemars Piquet.

Which do you think would be in fountain pens?

I'd say one of them would be Montblanc (though I'm not a fan of it, but it is to many, more of a status simbol, just like a Rolex or Patek), but I can't think of the other two. Pelikan maybe? What are your thoughts?

[Intensity]

I see this concept the most in camera lenses. I can't possibly imagine there's such a thing with pens or inks: simply too many good ones to choose from that are all highly individual and for different purposes.

[Driften]

I would say Montblanc is the Rolex of the pen world. Not sure if there are others of the wide status though. Just like the general public's idea of a high end Swiss watch is Rolex, the general non-pen public mostly just see Montblanc as a the high end pen.

 

I do have three Montblanc fountain pens and two ballpoint pens. They are good pens and just feel right to me. My MB 146 fits my hand and writing style better then any of my other my 30 fountain pens. Others are great pens as well but just don't have the weight and balance that just fits me as well. My Pelikan M805 does come really close.

[inkstainedruth]

Are you talking modern or vintage? Because for vintage pens one would certain be Parker. Not sure I'd say the same for modern Parkers, though....

The problem with things like this is that I don't think people are going to come to a consensus -- everyone has different experiences with different pens. For you, a MB 146 is perfect. For me, not so much (I tried someone's several years ago at a pen club meeting, and was, frankly, underwhelmed; the same guy had a 149 which definitely had a better nib than the 146, but that pen was just too big and heavy for me. You say your Pelikan M805 is "close" -- but for me the M405s are a better size, and my older model M400 is lovely to write with.

Easier for watches, I suspect -- not so many brands out there.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[deepak23]

Vintage - Parker, Sheaffer and Waterman

Modern (post 70s) - MB, Pelikan, Lamy

Japanese - Pilot, Sailor, Platinum

[pajaro]

Vintage: Parker 51 Aerometric, Sheaffer, Conway Stewart.

 

Modern: Montblanc, Pelikan, ST DuPont

[Wahl]

Rolex, Patek and Audemars ? Where do you leave IWC, Breitling, Omega....

 

I don´t believe there is such a thing in the pen world, there are just too many good brands.

 

Vintage...Parker, Conklin, Wahl Eversharp, Sheaffer, Carter, Waterman, Pelikan, Mont Blanc, OMAS, Aurora...

 

Modern...well, not really interested

[Mulrich]

Identifying a 'holy trinity' of pen makers would require a much tighter definition. Montblanc is likely the most broadly recognizable of the high-end brands. Pelikan, Pilot, and Lamy might be the next most recognizable brands, but not necessarily for their high-end models (Lamy doesn't even really have a true "high-end" model). ST Dupont, Graf Von Faber Castell, and many others are more exclusively high end but aren't as well known, sometimes even within the pen community. Other modern brands, such as Parker, Waterman, or Cross are widely known but not necessarily widely loved (or high-end). And there are others that are widely known but might not offer high-end. And there are others that are high-end, but might not be widely respected, such as Visconti. And then there are countless others that are high-end but very small (Nakaya, Conid), or all-around solid (Sailor), or countless others I haven't mentioned.

 

If I were forced to pick, and wanted to select companies that were most widely recognized and respected for their high-end offerings I'd probably choose Montblanc, Pelikan, and Pilot/Namiki. There are no doubt many other good and viable options.

[Morphling27]

It's not Pilot, Platinum, and Sailor??? I kid, I kid...

 

Even by the topic started, I wouldn't consider Rolex anything but trash. A. Lange & Söhne is a top tier brand in watches, especially if attempting to convey actually knowing about fine watches and being wealthy.

 

I'd have to say some of the more 'prestigious' European brands would probably go into the category. Aurora. Waterman. Maybe Visconti?

[Intensity]

I find it very interesting how the "holy trinity" concept is applied differently in different areas. I'm used to seeing it in photography, where 3 different lenses are usually thought of as providing the "holy trinity" of "all you need" basics. Such as a wide angle zoom, standard zoom, and a telephoto lens that are the best quality for a camera system, or the best budget picks, etc. Or it can be three prime lenses. Basically meant to cover you in most situations and are known to be "the best" in some very practical terms.

 

"Holy trinity" for watches or fountain pens doesn't even make sense to me, unless we're just talking about prestige (which is a fluid concept and highly dependent on country / group of people, etc.)

[OMASsimo]

I certainly know much more about watches and watchmaking than fountain pens but I've never even heard of the vain attempt to define a holy trinity of watches. The only parallel I can see is that everybody seems to know Rolex and Montblanc and few people have a clue about all the more exclusive manufacturers. You could start a poll about who knows Patek Philippe and Audemars Piguet. Or, to draw a parallel to fountain pens, Vacheron & Constantin, Jaeger-LeCoultre, Longines, Breguet, Universal Geneve, Movado, Ebel, Tag Heuer, Zenith, IWC, Lange & Söhne, Eterna, Enicar, Breitling, Omega, Panarai... Just a short list.

[jar]

The Holy Trinity are onions, celery and bell peppers. Add tomatoes, okra, rice and whatever sea food gets caught that day.

 

Nuff said.

[OMASsimo]

The Holy Trinity are onions, celery and bell peppers. Add tomatoes, okra, rice and whatever sea food gets caught that day.

 

Nuff said.

 

No, no! THAT Holy Trinity are onions, garlic and rosemary. Add tomatoes, carrots, celery, sea salt, pepper, pasta, and whatever sea food that's fresh enough to jump into your pan.

 

Nuff nuff said.

Edited November 14, 2017 by OMASsimo

[Waltz For Zizi]

The Holy Trinity are onions, celery and bell peppers. Add tomatoes, okra, rice and whatever sea food gets caught that day.

 

Nuff said.

Onion definitely is one of them

Not sure about the other too though. I would have said tomato before the other two.

[Intensity]

 

Holy Trinity are onions, garlic and rosemary.

I will sign my name under that!

[Waltz For Zizi]

I certainly know much more about watches and watchmaking than fountain pens but I've never even heard of the vain attempt to define a holy trinity of watches. The only parallel I can see is that everybody seems to know Rolex and Montblanc and few people have a clue about all the more exclusive manufacturers. You could start a poll about who knows Patek Philippe and Audemars Piguet. Or, to draw a parallel to fountain pens, Vacheron & Constantin, Jaeger-LeCoultre, Longines, Breguet, Universal Geneve, Movado, Ebel, Tag Heuer, Zenith, IWC, Lange & Söhne, Eterna, Enicar, Breitling, Omega, Panarai... Just a short list.

I don't know much about watches, but in my youtube searches, many reviewers claim that those 3 are considered the "holy trinity".

[OMASsimo]

I don't know much about watches, but in my youtube searches, many reviewers claim that those 3 are considered the "holy trinity".

 

OK, I don't do youtube searches and I haven't come across this in my circles of watchmakers and enthusiasts. And honestly, I consider this concept pretty much nonsense. I easily can name you 20 manufacturers which are at least as good or innovative or important as the three claimed. In fact, among watchmakers, many rate Jaeger-LeCoultre or Lange & Söhne higher than any of those three. And the most ingenious ever has been Breguet.

[Parker51]

The concept doesn't make any sense as far as a parallel with the Christian idea of Holy Trinity. There is no single Fountain Pen entity which is three in one.

Now if you want to say which Fountain Pen Companies match which Norse Gods, Hindu Gods, Roman Gods, Greek Gods, etc., then perhaps we could make comparisons.

But then we would stray into Religion, which is a big no no here.

[aggoo]

I always thought the holy trinity of watches were considered to be Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet and Vacheron Constantin.

 

The rationale is that each brand has been in continuous production for a very long time (>100 years), whereas many of the other popular watch brands are either newer or are resurrections.

 

The other criterion is that each of those brands has always been a very high-end and expensive offering, and even during the quartz crisis never strayed in to the lower tiers of watchmaking. Rolex is excluded on account of a mixture of snobbery, relative youth, and the utilitarian focus of its watches, particularly in the 50s and 60s when it was less of a status symbol. Opening a Rolex watch will also reveal a much more mass-produced and under-decorated movement compared to the three brands above.

 

Virtually all of the other brands mentioned either fail the criteria on youth, such as Panerai and many of the amazing watches available from independent makers today, inconsistent or incomplete history and resurrection, such as ALS, Breguet et al, or have produced lower end watches at some point in their history. These would be Girard Perregaux, Omega, Zenith etc. Jaeger Le Coultre have always been high end but have only produced significant watches under their own name since the 40s. Most of their high end movement production was sold to Patek, AP and VC etc. This point raises an argument that no firm should be considered the holy trinity since even the 3 mentioned used and still use movements from other suppliers, but that's they way that watch snobs view things.

 

 

With that being said, I can't really think of many pen companies who can fit all of those criteria, as most have lower end lines such as Parker, Waterman etc. Others have inconsistent histories and only recently became status symbols such as Montblanc and Pelikan. Onoto, Conway Stewart and a few others are resurrections and firms like Visconti, David Oscarson, Delta etc are too new for consideration. Don't forget that for 60 years a fountain pen was simply a tool, and any company trying to uphold a premium space in the market would have been crushed when ballpoints became popular.

 

Maybe Cartier, Namiki or Dunhill could stand for inclusion? Out of those, 2 companies have had to rely primarily on other products to stay afloat and writing instruments, although a part of their business from inception could hardly be considered their core offering. Even Namiki strayed downmarket by allowing their name to be used on the original VP, which is somewhat pedestrian compared to their luscious Urushi pens.

[Intensity]

It's a very silly concept as applied to writing instruments and accessories, no need to rationalize it Unless you feel like it, of course.