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Leaky Vintage Pens


Uncial

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I took a long, long break from buying vintage pens after being repeatedly stung by pens that were frankly junk and often beyond repair yet sold as 'restored' and 'perfect writers'. Almost all of them were returned and refunded via ebay. The thing is, if you like gliding smooth nibs of a certain quality a vintage pen is awfully hard to beat; hence the temptation to return to Eden. I have a few pens in my collection that I would like to use a lot more but simply find them a bit of a pain because they leak. I've always simply assumed that leaking pens into caps when set nib down or on their side was probably just due to age and wear. However, I was reading a blog post that suggested quite the opposite and that these issues should not be accepted and can be corrected. Sadly, it neglected to mention how it can be corrected. If I could get my leaky vintages to stop leaking I would definitely use them a lot more.

 

For clarity sake I'm talking specifically about a Whal Eversharp Doric lever filler with a rubber sac (that seems quite long - almost the full length of the pen barrel), a Waterman 52 in immaculate condition but restored with a silicone sac) and a Mabie Todd sf2 that delights in draining itself in minutes when left on its side yet never burps ( not quite sure how it manages this). Is there anything that can be done to stop this maddening leakiness? All pens have the correct nib and feeds by the way and have no cracks or areas where they mint have been loosened by water soakage or anything like that.

Edited by Uncial
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Ebay is a good source for unrestored pens, for working vintage pens i turn to the classifieds section here on fpn. Even the cheapest, 20 dollar Sheaffer Balance jr. that i`ve bought here was in perfect working order.

 

My impression is that most people who trade and sell pens here wouldn`t say "restored and in working order" if they don`t mean it. On the other hand, ebay is less personal and more profit-oriented.

 

Bottom line, no fountain pen should leak. If you had bad luck so far, you might want to try a more reputable seller of vintage pens and have the pens you already bought looked at. I personally have restored a few pens for personal use, however that doesn`t mean i did a good job. I`m not a pro, most people aren`t. Find sellers you can trust even if that means spending 25% more.

Edited by rochester21
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I've mostly had good luck on eBay, although I've been burned a couple of times. OTOH, I'm tending to get pens that are 1st (Parker and Sheaffer) or 2nd tier (Esterbrook and Morrison) brands, and I expect them to need work, except for the 51 Aerometrics.

But I've also walked away from listings where the photos are bad or I got a bad vibe from the seller (which is different from sellers who are clueless about what they have -- I can WORK with those people because I've learned to ask the right questions, such as "What's the nib width; fine/medium/etc?" because I actually have had sellers take out a ruler and tell me how many cms the nib measures... :o).

And that's not just with pens. Right now I'm watching the listing for a CD where the seller is in Japan (I actually own a copy, but I thought it might not be a bad idea to have a backup of it). This particular listing was WAY more expensive than the other two I'm currently watching; the seller said it was new and had a bonus track. So, just for curiosity's sake as much as anything, I asked what the bonus track was. And the seller gave me a history of the band, instead.... :headsmack: And I had to say, "Um, NOT the answer to the question I asked, and you don't have to tell me all about the various members and what they've done since they broke up -- because I probably KNOW all that already.... I've owned a copy on vinyl since the mid-1970s! Now what's the bonus track on the CD?" And so far, the response has been... crickets.... I should go back on and see if anyone else is following that listing (I'm betting not).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

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I'm hitting about 50/50 with vintage purchased online. You really need to buy from reputable pen people at a pen show if that's an option. At least that's been my experience.

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Thanks for the replies, but I was hoping someone might tell me a solution. Perhaps that is simply impossible without seeing the pen in person, but even tips would be a help.

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Possibly fit between nib/feed/section, is not tight enough, so you have air leaking somewhere, which results in ink leakage.

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My previous reading of advice here on FPN is that ink leaks follow from air leaks. Sources are as Wahl said or else leakage through the sac, e.g. a pin hole, or inadequate sealing against the nipple. For example, I had an Aurora 88 which needed a bit of pure silicone grease and tightening to stop a leak at the section threads.

 

Among my vintage pens the only other leaky ones have been a couple of Onotos, which some silicone grease on the piston rod resolved. I routinely leave all my filled pens of any age on their sides when not carrying them around.

X

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Hello Wahl

 

Sorry to say but tips are hard to say without knowing more about each pen. In general if it leaks out I would say air leak or something in the feed helping to let air in but the best tip I can give you is to find someone that knows how and what to look for. If it were easy you would have done it. Do you have the extra parts if you break something? If you take old pens apart you will break things and if you get the wrong tips they may end up in flames. You can ask me how I know if you want. That is the way some of us had to learn. If that doesn't set you off I would get Marshall and Oldfield book "Pen Repair". You will find some great info and be way ahead of what I had to learn with.

 

Good luck

Mark

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When I buy vintage, which I love to do for the exact reasons you name, I always assume I'll have to restore the pen. Most sellers on ebay have no clue about the pens they're selling. And many buyers don't know too much either. That's why ebay is still in business.:)

 

Anyway, the single one reason for your leaking issues has been named a number of times already. There's getting more air into the sac than supposed to. In my experience the most common reasons for this are in the order of likelihood:

 

1) porous or punctured ink sac

 

2) crack in the section

 

3) bent nib or feeder exposing the ink channel too much

 

4) nib/feeder not set properly into the section

 

This list only refers to pens with an ink sac of course. For piston fillers there are some other issues.

 

I think that a bad sac is the most likely reason for your problem.

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It's also possible the sac is not sealed well to the section nipple. I was also told that replacing the sac with one that is too large can cause that problem.

Baptiste knew how to make a short job long

For love of it. And yet not waste time either.

Robert Frost

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That's right and I'd omitted the "idiot issues" in my list. Of course the sac must be the correct size (diameter). Fixing ("sealing") it with shellac is only a measure to keep it in place mechanically. It should be air tight without any sealant.

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Too large a sac diameter will have the sac touching the barrel walls which will transfer heat from your hand more directly than it warming up the air in the barrel first. Also if the sac is too long, though with the Doric having a non-J pressure bar it can very well go to the end of the barrel, it can get squished in the barrel and against the barrel wall causing a similar issue. Though, it would also cause the pen to fill improperly (not fully).

 

With the Waterman, because the silicone sac is more air permeable than latex, it is very likely being caused by air moving more freely through the surface of the sac. Of course, if damage by out gassing of latex is a concern, than it's a difficult fix, though if it's ebonite, I don't believe it's as sensitive as celluloid to out gassing.

 

With these early pens, the feeds are much more simpler than feeds even twenty years older, and often times are not able to absorb excess ink that is being pushed out of the sac by changing air temperature, and/or pressure. Some suggest warming the barrel with your hand while holding the pen (nib) upright before beginning to write with the pen, thus allowing the ink to warm before flowing through the feed.

Edited by JakobS

FP Ink Orphanage-Is an ink not working with your pens, not the color you're looking for, is never to see the light of day again?!! If this is you, and the ink is in fine condition otherwise, don't dump it down the sink, or throw it into the trash, send it to me (payment can be negotiated), and I will provide it a nice safe home with love, and a decent meal of paper! Please PM me!<span style='color: #000080'>For Sale:</span> TBA

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I'm afraid I can't really add to the advice everybody's already given you as to the subject of the thread.

 

But

 

I'm hitting about 50/50 with vintage purchased online. You really need to buy from reputable pen people at a pen show if that's an option. At least that's been my experience.

 

Really?? Holy cow, that's a poor average!

 

I've been burned once, had two mistakes which I have been able to get rectified, and otherwise I've had nothing that didn't match its description or the answers to the questions I've asked.

Hi, I'm Mat


:)

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It's also possible the sac is not sealed well to the section nipple. I was also told that replacing the sac with one that is too large can cause that problem.

 

Thank you - this is what I fear may actually be the issue, so it's good to hear that my fear may have a basis in reality!

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I purchased a pen once (Wearever "Taperite" type) that had it's sac replaced. It leaked pretty badly. Turns out the sac was left too long, and wasn't poperly cemented to the section.

I cut the sac a bit and reglued it, now it works fine with no more leaks.

Also,the nib might have been removed and not re-inserted properly.

Just a couple of things to think about.

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You're getting sound advice, so just a few additional comments:

 

This is a good illustration of what can go wrong when people routinely pull the nib and feed from the section when cleaning a pen. Reassembly then often leads to an improperly set nib and feed. Everything may look fine, but functionally, it's another matter.

 

Many amateur sellers call a pen "restored" when they've cleaned it up and put in a new sac. Many don't do much more, and may try to use what sacs they have on hand even though they aren't an optimal fit. Few will check the setting of the nib and feed and heat-reset them as necessary, and virtually no one will bother dealing with a missing or damaged inner cap.

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I'm afraid I can't really add to the advice everybody's already given you as to the subject of the thread.

 

But

 

 

Really?? Holy cow, that's a poor average!

 

I've been burned once, had two mistakes which I have been able to get rectified, and otherwise I've had nothing that didn't match its description or the answers to the questions I've asked.

 

Yeah, I've been burned a few times times (although one time it was my own fault for not looking at the photos carefully enough). But I was lucky in that I got coached through the minefield that is eBay by FPN member OcalaFlGuy, who had offered to walk me through listings for Parker 51s when I decided I needed to have one. I'd send him links to listings and he'd give critiques about what he thought the pen should go for and what I should be looking for, and the right questions to ask.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

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You're getting sound advice, so just a few additional comments:

 

This is a good illustration of what can go wrong when people routinely pull the nib and feed from the section when cleaning a pen. Reassembly then often leads to an improperly set nib and feed. Everything may look fine, but functionally, it's another matter.

 

Many amateur sellers call a pen "restored" when they've cleaned it up and put in a new sac. Many don't do much more, and may try to use what sacs they have on hand even though they aren't an optimal fit. Few will check the setting of the nib and feed and heat-reset them as necessary, and virtually no one will bother dealing with a missing or damaged inner cap.

 

That's actually true and a good list of what to do. I usually avoid "restored" pens and rather do it myself. Often it's more about the outer appearance than the inner values what is sold and what people pay for when buying "restored". I want my vintage pens to work flawlessly as they were meant to. I'm also amazed how people manage to put in the wrong size sac. Just measure the diameter of the nipple with a caliper and take the right # sac from the shelf (or order it). The number is the diameter in 1/64 in. And yes, you have to trim the sac to the correct length of course.

 

Good luck Unical, just do it right and it will work. It's not really difficult. You are among the smart people who first ask instead of screwing up.:)

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