Pilot Falcon Sef/sf Nib Vs. Omas Extra Flexible Ef Nib

[Nikaa]

Hi!

 

Some time ago I had the opportunity to try Omas EF extra flexible nib (from calligraphy set). It was wonderful! For me the nib was perfect.

Unfortunately, it's hard to get a pen with this nib. I will not mention the price...

That's why I'm interested in Pilot Falcon.

I'm wondering about buying a Falcon resin with SEF or SF...

It seems to me that the writing experience may be similar ... but I'm not sure.

Does anyone have both, Omas with EF Extra Flexible and Falcon SEF and could solve my doubts? Show me some comparision maybe?

Which nib is closer to EF Extra flexibility (impression, writing, thickness)? SEF or SF? Or maybe none?

Thanks!

[Uncial]

If you mean the Pilot Falcon with that strange looking nib and the choice between a resin or metal body then you will be hugely disappointed. Not that it isn't a good pen, but it is nothing at all like the Omas nib you mention, The good news is that you can get something that is better than the Omas extra-flessibile nib. I didn't think it would be possible in a modern nib, but it is. The Tokyo Quill Pen Shop in Japan (do a google and it should come up ok) will sell you a Pilot Custom 823 with an FA nib. It's quite something. It is considerably more robust than the Omas (which is prone to being very easily sprung and it slackens over time) and much, much smoother. It will produce amazing hairlines and has a very pleasing snap back. It's not cheap, but it isn't anywhere near the current silly Omas prices.They sell out extremely fast but have just restocked this week.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Omas extra-flessibile nib....is not really even semi-flex....neither is a Falcon that has not been modified with grinding parts of the nib away.

 

I suggest '50-65 era German semi-flex pens........... Torpedo was very in at that time. Swan, MB 146/9, Pelikan 400nn, some Osmia pens.

Best buy is a Geha 790....if you look hard and are stubborn you can still find them for E 30-40 on German Ebay. Often listed at E60-70.

 

The medium small Pelikan 140 semi-flex goes for E-90-100. Medium small was very popular in the '50's, Geha's then flagship the 760 with the gold piston cap ring was that size and goes for E-30-40 or more than the 790. Kaweco Dia was that size, and Osmia also medium small 6x semi-flex pens. All those pens had longer caps so they posted the same length as the standard sized pens.

Other standard sized pens can go from E90-100-120 like a '50-54 400.

Osmia is more expensive than Pelikan, then comes Soennecken and MB.....still very affordable to todays prices.

 

 

 

The 790 is a standard sized pen like the Pelikan 400/400n......the 400nn is medium long.

A couple of posters I respect said the Geha nibs were a tad better than Pelikan nibs of the era. I found is so testing 5 of my Gehas vs 8-9 of my Pelikans. Geha steel nibs (non school pen) (had one) are as good as the gold. Osmia gold nibs which are fantastic are as good as the steel.

 

Then you could get lucky and find a maxi-semi-flex nib. 1 of 5 is that of my Geha, 3 of 9 of my Pelikan, and 1 of 3 on my MB (I did look for that maxi in MB for quite a while)

Osmia/O-F-C with the diamond is semi-flex....Osmia or Osmia-Faber-Castell with Supra is maxi-semi-flex. The rest of the brands that is pure luck.

 

I have three Geha 790's... The first shown...polished up better than the picture and is a '59/60. Three true rings.

1960-to @ 70. 'three rings'...............there was another lower rated pen with two 'rings' and the school pens which are nice regular flex nibs, have no ring and a serial number....can be had for E12-19. A good pen. Don't buy a Geha cartridge pen....nor cartridge now made fits it. I'm having the cartridge company in Slovakia take a look at making them again. Geha was the first company to make a cartridge pen in Germany. The cartridge fit Geha on the fat end and Pelikan on the skinny end.

Just make sure your Geha has three rings...be it a 790 or a 760.

This is a clearer look at the 'three' rings.

This is a Geha 760 two bidders snipped away from me at the last second. This is a rarer full color 760. Normally it's a black capped pen, my later 760 from when it was no longer the flag ship is gray striped bottom, but no gold piston ring.

:crybaby:That was the rarest 760 I've seen. Think E150 and more if you ever run into one....I'd gone higher than that too, had I known it was going to go that high.

 

There is also a poster with 4-5...in different colors 780's ...standard sized like a 790, no gold piston ring.........I'd never seen nor knew the 780 existed. Something similar to the 760 shown, but with no gold piston ring.

 

Standard German vintage pens outside of Pelikan seem to be all black and gold ....unless made for export. Pens in color will cost 1/3 more.

[Nikaa]

If you mean the Pilot Falcon with that strange looking nib and the choice between a resin or metal body then you will be hugely disappointed. Not that it isn't a good pen, but it is nothing at all like the Omas nib you mention, The good news is that you can get something that is better than the Omas extra-flessibile nib. I didn't think it would be possible in a modern nib, but it is. The Tokyo Quill Pen Shop in Japan (do a google and it should come up ok) will sell you a Pilot Custom 823 with an FA nib.

 

Thanks for tips. This FA nib - do you have it? I will look at it!

Do you know maybe if it is availaible also in USA (NY)?

 

My friends are going to NY now, and it will be a chance to buy Falcon at a good price.

In Poland they are quite exprensive (and little choice). Sure, I can order from abroad but I must remember about taxes (VAT) and I prefer to spend less at this moment And if I get a chance to buy cheaper, why not... but first, I want to check it and ask about Falcon, beacuse maybe there is someting better than Falcon SEF (and closer to Omas Flexible) like... Pilot FA...?

 

I had Falcon SM metal in hand, but it's too wide nib and too wet, I prefer something thinner. And the metal finish I do not like too much.

 

Maybe it is not a good idea to buy now Falcon, maybe it will be better wait a little and save some money...

 

 

Omas extra-flessibile nib....is not really even semi-flex....neither is a Falcon that has not been modified with grinding parts of the nib away.

 

I suggest '50-65 era German semi-flex pens........... Torpedo was very in at that time. Swan, MB 146/9, Pelikan 400nn, some Osmia pens.

Best buy is a Geha 790....if you look hard and are stubborn you can still find them for E 30-40 on German Ebay. Often listed at E60-70.

 

 

 

Bo Bo Olsen. Thank you very much for introduce Geha And all tips! I heard about Geha, but I was not particularly interested, didn't try etc.. I have to look at them closer.... in future.

 

Now I'm thinking about Falcon, still

 

I have few vintage pens with flex nib (f.ex. Wahl Eversharp Doric with flexible nib, vintage Blackbird Madie Todd or... Omas Extra with 14k flexible nib - but called not 'extra flexible'). In Omas Flexible nib I like elasticity and precision, but I used it for normal writing, and I want to use Falcon for normal, everyday writing... I'm not sure it will be good idea, but why not

 

That is why I am very interested in the opinions of people who have compared these two nibs (Omas flexible nib EF and Falcon SEF or SF).

Edited October 30, 2017 by Nikaa

[AmandaW]

I cannot compare, only comment on Falcon SF: I wish I had ordered the SEF instead. The SF is a good pen and it writes well, but the line is wider than I like.

[Nikaa]

I cannot compare, only comment on Falcon SF: I wish I had ordered the SEF instead. The SF is a good pen and it writes well, but the line is wider than I like.

 

 

I'm thinking about the same... but I'm afraid a little that SEF will scratch....

I've tried once, SM - it was wide and wet

[Bo Bo Olson]

Omas extra-flessibile nib may be what a Falcon's nib is 'Springy' good tine bend, but only 2 X tine spread, like a modern MB nib..............((The Omas nib is not semi-flex....which is why they hide the fact with a name no one else ever used, extra-flessibile.))

If that is what you want in a nib......then the best of the 'Springy' nibs is the new Lamy Imporium's nib.

So close to being semi-flex, but no cigar.

 

I'm not the only one impressed by that new Lamy nib....that comes in some three or four different colors. A couple of posters think it is indeed the best 'Springy' nib now made.

 

How good is that nib.....as an internationally known cheapskate....If the new Imporium's section will fit the old Person's barrel.....I will get it....don't know which of the very nice nib color arrangements I'll get ..... that is a major decision. ....dither-cubed.

 

 

One of my motto's are - chase the nib.

 

And I think you can do better than that Falcon extra-flessibile......at least spend the extra money to have the have holes ground into it at the factory....so it could be semi-flex.

[Uncial]

I had a Pilot Falcon but I sold it. I found it gave too much feedback for my taste and required too heavy a hand to get any flexibility out of it. I own the FA on an 823. I think you can still get an FA on a Pilot 74 (or some other similar model) but the nib and feed won't be tuned and many have reported that the pen has 'issues' and the feed is not able to keep up with the nib. As far as I know they are not available anywhere else on an 823. The Tokyo Quill Pen Shop alter the feed on the 823 to make it ever so slightly wetter and tune the nib so that it writes smoothly. I have to say I am very impressed with it and as far as I know they are the only people who do this so it is only available through them.

 

I've owned an Omas EF extra flessibiile for a few years now. When I bought it the nib always gave quite a lot of feedback (not nearly as much as a Pilot Falcon though) but wrote very beautifully and quite easily from an EEF/EF to a B. I have never attempted to push it further than this as they do have a tendency to spring easily. In the last year it has seen a lot of use and the EF characteristics have altered to more of an F nib (which is what I meant by the slackening, but with a very light hand will still write as an EEF with a lot of care). I still don't push it beyond a B width.

 

The 823 Custom FA will write an incredibly fine hairline (similar to Sailor's superfine but without all that scratchiness) to a B with great ease. It doesn't require a much pressure at all - which suits me as I have quite a light hand normally. You can push it to a BB without too much trouble, but it's more pressure than I would normally use in writing so I don't avail of its full scope normally. The nib feels a lot more robust than the Omas and has far superior spring back but is nowhere near as stiff as the Pilot Falcon, which I felt took quite a lot of pressure to get any significant variance out of. As always, your mileage may vary as it will depend on your writing style and on the pressure you normally apply. Some have mentioned in reviews that the hairlines are quite difficult to achieve because the nib is so responsive. I haven't found that, but again, it's worth bearing in mind your own writing habits in terms of what the nib will provide for you. It's €230 so a little more expensive than a Falcon, but you're getting a far superior pen. The filling system is great, but it rinses through the ink at an alarming rate in comparison with the normal 823.

[KellyMcJ]

I have a Falcon SF. Now, I'm not a regular flex writer however...the nib is more flexible than I imagined. The SF produces incredibly fine lines if you write with almost no pressure- so fine in fact that I can't imagine what an SEF would be like.

 

It has feedback that is pleasant, like writing with a freshly sharpened wood pencil. I wouldn't call it scratchy. People say the SEF is scratchy.

 

I love my Falcon. I don't have the Omas to compare it to and since I don't regularly write with flex I can't comment on that (regular flex writers tend to be disappointed, I think.) but the Falcon is a very worthy everyday pen.

[AmandaW]

The SF produces incredibly fine lines if you write with almost no pressure.

 

I was talking about writing with no pressure too.

 

For comparison the Falcon SF with Pilot Custom Heritage 92 with a fine nib and a Platinum #3776 Century SF nib. All written with no pressure.

 

[Nikaa]

 

I was talking about writing with no pressure too.

 

For comparison the Falcon SF with Pilot Custom Heritage 92 with a fine nib and a Platinum #3776 Century SF nib. All written with no pressure.

 

fine_comparison.jpg

 

Wow! Quite wide line from Falcon. It is also quite wet, isn't it? What kind of paper is it?

[AmandaW]

 

Wow! Quite wide line from Falcon. It is also quite wet, isn't it? What kind of paper is it?

 

 

 

The paper is just a cheap scribble pad that's quite smooth and light weight (about 70gsm). It is surprisingly good with fountain pen ink - it doesn't usually bleed or feather.

[Nikaa]

Omas extra-flessibile nib may be what a Falcon's nib is 'Springy' good tine bend, but only 2 X tine spread, like a modern MB nib..............((The Omas nib is not semi-flex....which is why they hide the fact with a name no one else ever used, extra-flessibile.))

If that is what you want in a nib......then the best of the 'Springy' nibs is the new Lamy Imporium's nib.

So close to being semi-flex, but no cigar.

 

 

One of my motto's are - chase the nib.

 

And I think you can do better than that Falcon extra-flessibile......at least spend the extra money to have the have holes ground into it at the factory....so it could be semi-flex.

 

Wow, I did not know about this Lamy Imporium. Sounds promising. Maybe during Fountain Pen Day someone will have a chance to try it.

Chase the nib ... I like you motto! You're right!

I have a few more days to think.......

 

 

 

 

 

I had a Pilot Falcon but I sold it. I found it gave too much feedback for my taste and required too heavy a hand to get any flexibility out of it. I own the FA on an 823. I think you can still get an FA on a Pilot 74 (or some other similar model) but the nib and feed won't be tuned and many have reported that the pen has 'issues' and the feed is not able to keep up with the nib. As far as I know they are not available anywhere else on an 823. The Tokyo Quill Pen Shop alter the feed on the 823 to make it ever so slightly wetter and tune the nib so that it writes smoothly. I have to say I am very impressed with it and as far as I know they are the only people who do this so it is only available through them.

 

I've owned an Omas EF extra flessibiile for a few years now. When I bought it the nib always gave quite a lot of feedback (not nearly as much as a Pilot Falcon though) but wrote very beautifully and quite easily from an EEF/EF to a B. I have never attempted to push it further than this as they do have a tendency to spring easily. In the last year it has seen a lot of use and the EF characteristics have altered to more of an F nib (which is what I meant by the slackening, but with a very light hand will still write as an EEF with a lot of care). I still don't push it beyond a B width.

 

The 823 Custom FA will write an incredibly fine hairline (similar to Sailor's superfine but without all that scratchiness) to a B with great ease. It doesn't require a much pressure at all - which suits me as I have quite a light hand normally. You can push it to a BB without too much trouble, but it's more pressure than I would normally use in writing so I don't avail of its full scope normally. The nib feels a lot more robust than the Omas and has far superior spring back but is nowhere near as stiff as the Pilot Falcon, which I felt took quite a lot of pressure to get any significant variance out of. As always, your mileage may vary as it will depend on your writing style and on the pressure you normally apply. Some have mentioned in reviews that the hairlines are quite difficult to achieve because the nib is so responsive. I haven't found that, but again, it's worth bearing in mind your own writing habits in terms of what the nib will provide for you. It's €230 so a little more expensive than a Falcon, but you're getting a far superior pen. The filling system is great, but it rinses through the ink at an alarming rate in comparison with the normal 823.

 

When you talk about this Pilot 823 with FA nib I am more and more intrigued. It is very cool that this shop improves everything that needs to be improved and then the customer is satisfied. I am more than intrigued. Could you show a sample of writing and the capabilities of this nib?

[Nikaa]

I have a Falcon SF. Now, I'm not a regular flex writer however...the nib is more flexible than I imagined. The SF produces incredibly fine lines if you write with almost no pressure- so fine in fact that I can't imagine what an SEF would be like.

 

It has feedback that is pleasant, like writing with a freshly sharpened wood pencil. I wouldn't call it scratchy. People say the SEF is scratchy.

 

I love my Falcon. I don't have the Omas to compare it to and since I don't regularly write with flex I can't comment on that (regular flex writers tend to be disappointed, I think.) but the Falcon is a very worthy everyday pen.

 

I also use almost no pressure. And I'm not a regular flex writer either

 

 

 

 

 

The paper is just a cheap scribble pad that's quite smooth and light weight (about 70gsm). It is surprisingly good with fountain pen ink - it doesn't usually bleed or feat

 

But I think the line looks a bit wider than on Rhodia f. ex. ?

[Nikaa]

I'm tempted by Falcon.

 

I do not know only ...SF or SEF .... this scratching in SEF I'm afraid. I read review and people complain on it.

 

I can not write nibs like for Cooperplate ... I just can't. they rip paper for me... I tried a nib, the thin one (EF), from the Rembrandt Calligraphy set - and I can not write it. That is why I'm afraid of this Falcon SEF .... But SF looks a bit too wide? Now I'm getting more and more into the thin line.... with some feedback best, with a little elasticity ...

 

I know. I should just have to try the two nibs - I just do not have the opportunity....

[AmandaW]

 

I also use almost no pressure. And I'm not a regular flex writer either

 

 

 

But I think the line looks a bit wider than on Rhodia f. ex. ?

 

On Rhodia:

 

[Nikaa]

 

On Rhodia:

 

rhodia.jpg

 

Thank you!!! So... it is really quite wide Looks almost like SM....

[friedrichwild]

i tried to apply the same pressure.

As you can see pilot SEF is not a nib that offers a lot of line variation and it is not flexible. It is one of my best nibs though. it has a loooooot of feedback but it is not scratchy (but it kind of feels like scratchy because of this super fine tipping material). i got used to it now and i have learned not to apply much pressure when i write and now the nib does not feel scratchy because it is not. it is not a nib for everyone though

 

Edited October 31, 2017 by friedrichwild

[Nikaa]

i tried to apply the same pressure

 

 

 

O wow!!! Thank you! I can imagine now, because I also have Wahl Eversharp flexible nib :D

 

And the most important question: Is it SEF scratchy? Or was and if what do you did to help it? Was it micromesh enough?

[friedrichwild]

i edited my previous message and talked about it. i did not use micromesh at all.

when i first got the nib it felt scratchy to me but i realized that it is not. You just need to write with less pressure (when normal writing) and you should be ok. The nib is capable of such writing. it can write without applying any pressure at all