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White Trim Watermans In Celluloid: An Inventory


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#1 Estragon

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 19:41

I recently added some elusive Watermans to my focus on celluloid pens with white trim and thought I might take inventory as an aid to fellow collectors. Some of these are export models, some don't appear in any known catalogues, and 1-2 don't seem to be featured in any book I've seen. Still hunting that Nacre Patrician and a bevy of Patricias to round out the collection! I'm also aware of several export models offered in a range of marbled colors I'll probably never get around to (e.g. the 32 1/2, Juniors, and other glass cartridge pens).

 

If anyone knows of any other unrepresented colors offered with white trim, or if there's any other info/photos you'd like to share, please do chime in! I think I have the names of the more common catalogued colors right, but I haven't a notion about some of the others.

 

HGA4YL0.jpg

 

Waterman's 3/32 (L to R): Jet (black); Black Pearl (w/ red flecks); Steel Quartz; Green Pearl (w/ red flecks); Brown (mahogany); 3V Claret (red marble)

—Based on a photo I seem to recall from the Lehrer book, I believe the 32 was also offered in Green & Bronze – possibly Red & Bronze too? Has anybody seen either of these?

 

Sppuo09.jpg

 

Waterman's 94 (L to R): Grey (w/ red flecks); Blue (blue & cream)

 

oaF1xKD.jpg

 

L to R: Waterman's Junior (Jet); unidentified model (no barrel imprint, possibly an Ink-Vue cap?); Ink-Vue (Silver Ray); Lady Patricia Ink-Vue (Mist & Sunset)

—Some Lady Pats, including several lever-filler and one Ink-Vue, missing here.

 

w4WPpRl.jpg

 

L to R: Waterman's Thorobred (32A-V in red/green stripe, brown/red stripe, grey/red stripe); cartridge filler (grey marble); unidentified model (red marble, barrel marked simply "Product of Waterman's")

—Does anyone happen to know the catalogued names for any of these last colors?


Edited by Estragon, 17 October 2017 - 20:57.

aka popcod (FPGeeks)

 

WANTED: Vintage Pens with White Trim! —> Conklin Nozac Penline (grey checked) | Sheaffer: Jr. Truncated (blue & black); OS Balance w/ reverse trim (grey/red vein) | Balance 3-25 (grey/red fleck); Canadian Balance 5-30 (roseglow + green); First-Yr Crest (silver cap) | Waterman: Thorobred (brown/red stripe); Lady Patricia (black, nacre, persian) | Pelikan 100/N (grey, wartime trim) | Wahl-Eversharp: "half" Coronet (rhodium cap); early BCHR (nickel roller clip) | Rebadged Parkers: Diamond Medal, Webster, etc. (silver web, grey marble, etc.)


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#2 sidthecat

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 02:40

I recently sold one of those red-green 34s to a friend: no clip and a chip in the cap but a really nice keyhole nib.
They’re inseparable now. I think she sleeps with it.

#3 Estragon

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 00:21

One of the things I like about the 32s is that many can be found with #2 nibs no less expressive than a typical 52. I don't believe they ever came with keyhole nibs from the factory, but I'm sure that doesn't bother her a bit! Or were you referring to a 94? In which case a keyhole nib would totally make sense. :) The nibs on my 94s are pretty rigid, but excellent writers nonetheless.


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WANTED: Vintage Pens with White Trim! —> Conklin Nozac Penline (grey checked) | Sheaffer: Jr. Truncated (blue & black); OS Balance w/ reverse trim (grey/red vein) | Balance 3-25 (grey/red fleck); Canadian Balance 5-30 (roseglow + green); First-Yr Crest (silver cap) | Waterman: Thorobred (brown/red stripe); Lady Patricia (black, nacre, persian) | Pelikan 100/N (grey, wartime trim) | Wahl-Eversharp: "half" Coronet (rhodium cap); early BCHR (nickel roller clip) | Rebadged Parkers: Diamond Medal, Webster, etc. (silver web, grey marble, etc.)


#4 Xof72000

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 04:44

One of the things I like about the 32s is that many can be found with #2 nibs no less expressive than a typical 52. I don't believe they ever came with keyhole nibs from the factory, but I'm sure that doesn't bother her a bit! 

 

I've never seen a #2 Keyhole nib ...



#5 Mauricio

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 10:56

Estragon,

 

Very nice collection of vintage Waterman celluloid pens. Very nice pictures as well. Vintage Waterman pens offer a wide variety of celluloid colors, and some of those colors are strikingly gorgeous. Their "Turquoise" color is one of my favorites. As a matter of fact, I have a Waterman Patrician in Turquoise inked and in the rotation at the moment! 

 

I have seen a few #2 keyhole nibs. Some were marked as "purple" while others did not have any "color" imprint. They were all rigid nibs. If memory serves me well, they all came in vest pocket pens from the 1930s: Waterman 3V, 92V, etc.


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#6 gregamckinney

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 11:46

I don't have all my pens imaged (and since most are in storage, I can't take new shots of just the white trim examples together) but here are a few. Forgive the non-white trim pens in the photos:

 

3, 3v, 32, 32v, 32.5

waterman_3-32-3v-32v-32.5.png

 

A great ripple 32.5

waterman_32.5.jpg

 

 

3v

waterman_92323351v.jpg

 

 

black, Persian and Ink-Vue Lady Patricias

waterman_ladypatricias.jpg

 

 

Waterman Military set and pencil (no matched pen for this one)

waterman_military.jpg

 

 

Best Regards, greg


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#7 gregamckinney

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 11:48

I've seen a number of un-color marked and PURPLE #2 nibs, but don't recall ever seeing any other colors.

 

greg


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#8 sidthecat

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 03:13

The nib on the red-green pen had no color designation and I’d call it a hair more than semiflex. My friend can pull some very nice lines with it.

#9 Estragon

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 17:00

Trove of Waterman photos.

 

Thanks for posting these, Greg. That Persian Patricia in the front has been the standard by which I've judged the color of any others I come across – simply spectacular! And that IS an interesting 32 1/2 in red ripple HR. I don't think I've ever seen one of those before. Makes me wonder if there was ever a BCHR 32 1/2. Meanwhile, I entirely forgot about the Military sets! The grey set appears unusual, having the same plastic as the Thorobreds. I think I usually see them in a marbled pattern resembling that of the pencil to the left. IIRC, these were available in GPT as well.

 

I've had my eye on a few red marble 32 1/2s, like the one to the right of the Ripple – all from the UK. Do you happen to recall if this is the same color as the US Claret, available exclusively in the vest-pocket size? It seems that the main 32 1/2 line featured different colors in a marbled celluloid that is, for the most part, distinct to these pens. 

 

Looks like this is shaping up to be quite an inventory!

 

Speaking of 40s pens, there's also this line, which features – among others with white trim – a lady's model (#2) with red streaked celluloid:

 

xSnCCuK.jpg


aka popcod (FPGeeks)

 

WANTED: Vintage Pens with White Trim! —> Conklin Nozac Penline (grey checked) | Sheaffer: Jr. Truncated (blue & black); OS Balance w/ reverse trim (grey/red vein) | Balance 3-25 (grey/red fleck); Canadian Balance 5-30 (roseglow + green); First-Yr Crest (silver cap) | Waterman: Thorobred (brown/red stripe); Lady Patricia (black, nacre, persian) | Pelikan 100/N (grey, wartime trim) | Wahl-Eversharp: "half" Coronet (rhodium cap); early BCHR (nickel roller clip) | Rebadged Parkers: Diamond Medal, Webster, etc. (silver web, grey marble, etc.)


#10 Estragon

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 17:07

Their "Turquoise" color is one of my favorites. As a matter of fact, I have a Waterman Patrician in Turquoise inked and in the rotation at the moment! 

 

 

 

Though it lies outside of my focus, a Turquoise Patrician has always been one of my dream pens. Closest I ever got was a 92 in Turquoise with discoloration (the golden brown portions had lost their luster). Until a Patrician somehow falls into my lap (ha!), I've been hunting a British Stephen's pen in this color (center):

 

59dy4mw.jpg


Edited by Estragon, 21 October 2017 - 17:09.

aka popcod (FPGeeks)

 

WANTED: Vintage Pens with White Trim! —> Conklin Nozac Penline (grey checked) | Sheaffer: Jr. Truncated (blue & black); OS Balance w/ reverse trim (grey/red vein) | Balance 3-25 (grey/red fleck); Canadian Balance 5-30 (roseglow + green); First-Yr Crest (silver cap) | Waterman: Thorobred (brown/red stripe); Lady Patricia (black, nacre, persian) | Pelikan 100/N (grey, wartime trim) | Wahl-Eversharp: "half" Coronet (rhodium cap); early BCHR (nickel roller clip) | Rebadged Parkers: Diamond Medal, Webster, etc. (silver web, grey marble, etc.)


#11 gregamckinney

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 17:23

 

...

 

I've had my eye on a few red marble 32 1/2s, like the one to the right of the Ripple – all from the UK. Do you happen to recall if this is the same color as the US Claret, available exclusively in the vest-pocket size? It seems that the main 32 1/2 line featured different colors in a marbled celluloid that is, for the most part, distinct to these pens. 

 

...

 

Estragon,

My recollection is that the pen is indeed Claret.  I wish it was in the same state as I am so I could check (and whether it is US made.)

greg


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#12 Estragon

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 20:00

Interesting – it's as though Waterman took the pattern from the catalogued Claret 32V and expanded it the range of colors for the 32.5 line.

 

Seems there was*indeed a green and bronze 32 as well. Serendipitously, one just ended on eBay – as did a green and bronze pen with NPT that was clearly marked 92. I was under the impression that there were far fewer Waterman models offered with reverse trim than, say, Sheaffer offered. But I'm learning that one really can't rule anything out.


aka popcod (FPGeeks)

 

WANTED: Vintage Pens with White Trim! —> Conklin Nozac Penline (grey checked) | Sheaffer: Jr. Truncated (blue & black); OS Balance w/ reverse trim (grey/red vein) | Balance 3-25 (grey/red fleck); Canadian Balance 5-30 (roseglow + green); First-Yr Crest (silver cap) | Waterman: Thorobred (brown/red stripe); Lady Patricia (black, nacre, persian) | Pelikan 100/N (grey, wartime trim) | Wahl-Eversharp: "half" Coronet (rhodium cap); early BCHR (nickel roller clip) | Rebadged Parkers: Diamond Medal, Webster, etc. (silver web, grey marble, etc.)


#13 gregamckinney

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 12:38

Interesting – it's as though Waterman took the pattern from the catalogued Claret 32V and expanded it the range of colors for the 32.5 line.

 

Seems there was*indeed a green and bronze 32 as well. Serendipitously, one just ended on eBay – as did a green and bronze pen with NPT that was clearly marked 92. I was under the impression that there were far fewer Waterman models offered with reverse trim than, say, Sheaffer offered. But I'm learning that one really can't rule anything out.

 

I saw that green and bronze 32.  Should have bid on it, but glad you got it.

I think that by the time you add in the Canadian, English and late pens, most of the plastic colors and model combinations probably exist.  That's not to mention "HR pens" that show up in plastic.

 

Marked 52's:

late_52s.jpg

 

An odd 52V

waterman_52V_canadian1000w.jpg

 

 

 

Best Regards, greg


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#14 Estragon

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 22:08

Fascinating 52s, Greg. It appears Waterman might've simply changed the imprints and trim to gold on the 32 for the European market. I'm curious what the reasoning could've been behind such decisions. Perhaps retaining the number of their most iconic model made it more recognizable/desirable in Europe?

 

I actually didn't end up bidding on the 32 on account of the color and clip issues. Might have all the same had this 92 w/ reverse trim not come up in the same week. All the imprints are consistent with an American pen. But the clip is peculiar, bearing a closer resemblance to the earlier style used on BCHR  pens. I usually don't care for engravings on plastic, but the heatstamp by the International Workers Order makes it historically interesting to me. (nt. the color is better than represented – night falls all too early in NY this time of year and I ran out of sunlight before I could snap a couple shots)

 

yaua8dt.jpg

 

lF6wDEa.jpg

 

MG8dubZ.jpg


Edited by Estragon, 11 November 2017 - 22:42.

aka popcod (FPGeeks)

 

WANTED: Vintage Pens with White Trim! —> Conklin Nozac Penline (grey checked) | Sheaffer: Jr. Truncated (blue & black); OS Balance w/ reverse trim (grey/red vein) | Balance 3-25 (grey/red fleck); Canadian Balance 5-30 (roseglow + green); First-Yr Crest (silver cap) | Waterman: Thorobred (brown/red stripe); Lady Patricia (black, nacre, persian) | Pelikan 100/N (grey, wartime trim) | Wahl-Eversharp: "half" Coronet (rhodium cap); early BCHR (nickel roller clip) | Rebadged Parkers: Diamond Medal, Webster, etc. (silver web, grey marble, etc.)


#15 robert1962

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 18:55

I really like your focus. Makes a nice visual display, and allows some forays into some of the more interesting obscure economy models. A reflection of the struggles to generate sales during the Depression. 

 

Did anyone mention Patrician in Nacre?  I would share a photo, but does anyone have a burning need to see yet another discolored Nacre Patrician shot with a cell phone? Didn't think so. 

 

I can add a 32 in Mahogany with wide band, and 32 Blue and Cream in both narrow and wide band. I really like these 32's. Kind of a followup to the 52X. A nice comfortable diameter at a budget price. I will do some digging and see if anything else comes up.

 

Threads like this really make great reference tools.

 

 

Thanks, Bob

 

P.S. I see that your in NYC. A fun thing for me was finding a nice Waterman #12 at a Chelsea flea market. Only moved a few hundred yards in a hundred years! That's what I like to think.


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#16 Estragon

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 03:19

 

P.S. I see that your in NYC. A fun thing for me was finding a nice Waterman #12 at a Chelsea flea market. Only moved a few hundred yards in a hundred years! That's what I like to think.

 

What a great find! I've always lived in one of the outer boroughs and don't often make it to any of the city flea markets as I've assumed that everything will already be gone by the time I get there or priced at a NYC premium. If yours was a recent find, I just might have to reconsider!

 

I don't think a Nacre Lady Pat has made an appearance in this thread either. So difficult to find this color clean. Another key pen would be the #5 in Jet with white trim. Speaking of anomalous clips, this stickered NOS #5 set recently ended on eBay. No idea what to make of the  Aikin Lambert style clip:

 

HJmZzWt.jpg

 

link to the auction: https://www.ebay.com...=p2047675.l2557


Edited by Estragon, 17 November 2017 - 03:21.

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WANTED: Vintage Pens with White Trim! —> Conklin Nozac Penline (grey checked) | Sheaffer: Jr. Truncated (blue & black); OS Balance w/ reverse trim (grey/red vein) | Balance 3-25 (grey/red fleck); Canadian Balance 5-30 (roseglow + green); First-Yr Crest (silver cap) | Waterman: Thorobred (brown/red stripe); Lady Patricia (black, nacre, persian) | Pelikan 100/N (grey, wartime trim) | Wahl-Eversharp: "half" Coronet (rhodium cap); early BCHR (nickel roller clip) | Rebadged Parkers: Diamond Medal, Webster, etc. (silver web, grey marble, etc.)







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