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Man Or Le Man?

which is right?

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33 replies to this topic

#1 Laureat75

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Posted 05 October 2017 - 20:30

I see the Man 100 and 200 pens described both with and without the definite article.  So should they be "Le Man" or just "Man".  And anyway, why "Man"?  They came after the Gentleman, so was it an attempt to reach a wider market or just a reflection that society was becoming more egalitarian, and the concept of a gentlemen was outmoded?

 

But while we are on the subject of men and gentlemen, I note that the Man pens fetch significantly higher prices than the poor Gentlemen,  Were they better pens (it seems unlikely), or are there fewer of them? 

 

I must declare an interest.  I don't own any Men (they are too expensive), but have 5 Gentlemen, and love them.  They are elegant and understated and reassuringly solid.  True gentlemen, in fact.



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#2 dms525

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Posted 05 October 2017 - 22:44

I have seen these pens referred to as "Leman" 100 or 200, also. The company referred to these as "Le Man" models. In the U.S., as you found, the article is often omitted. I would say that the proper name is that used by the manufacturer - Le Man.

 

i don't own any Gentleman models. I have 3 Le Man 100's and 3 Le Man 200's. I can't compare the quality of the Le Man and Gentleman pens. My impression is they are both first rate.

 

David



#3 praxim

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Posted 05 October 2017 - 22:51

I am curious about the naming too. There is a lake near Geneva called Leman. It may be named after that, as I think Caran d'Ache or someone did? It does not fit with Le Mans so maybe it was always Man 100 (& 200). I have some Man 100s but no Gentlemen so can not compare. I can think of a couple of people here who could do that for us. I love my Man 100 pens. They are my favourite Watermans post the 1930s. Required to choose, I would keep them rather than Edsons or any later Waterman.


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#4 Force

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 03:29

LE MAN = Lewis Edson WaterMAN

 

So for all intents and purposes it should be LE Man albeit Waterman catalogues state MAN and Le Man.

LE MAN 100 production started in 1983 to commemorate 100 year (1883)

 

as for the LE MAN 200 I have no idea other than just to reduce the size slightly for the FP. The RB & BP are the same size as the 100 so the plot thickens.



#5 praxim

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 03:42

[updates personal records] :)

(superfluous; found already using Le Man consistently)


Edited by praxim, 06 October 2017 - 03:46.

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#6 Xof72000

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 09:10

The right term (here in France) is MAN 100, and all the catalogs I have are mentionning "MAN 100 / 200".

 

LE also mean "the" in french, may be some persons are using "LE MAN 100" to say "The MAN 100".



#7 Force

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 09:33

1988

 

I can only assume the designer and directors head bashing in 1982/3 to think up a name for the new model would have had subtle relationship to Lewis.

 

DSCN0682.JPG

 

DSCN0683.JPG



#8 Chrissy

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 10:20

Le Man is a name I've always wondered about too. Thanks for the explanation.  :)

 

I thought there was an easy way to tell Le Man 100 FP and Le Man 200 FP apart in pictures, but I've forgotten it. Is the nib slightly different? Was the Gentleman slightly less popular because it was a thinner pen? Or am I wandering off topic?  :wacko:


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#9 praxim

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 10:38

So far, no-one has contributed weights and measures for Le Man 200 to the Waterman "Weights and Measures" thread.

 

The latest table there shows the Gentleman to be just a little lighter and smaller compared with a standard Le Man 100. The Patrician and gold/silver models are quite a bit heavier. I read that the 200 is similar to the Gentleman in size and weight. Having neither a Gentleman nor a 200 I can add nothing more about their appearance or writing characteristics.


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#10 Force

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 11:00

When you don't have the two together just ask to see the feed. The Le Man 100 feed is finned, the 200 is plain and smooth.

 

I have a 200 so will update the Weights & Measures asap.



#11 Chrissy

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 11:14

I borrowed a Le Man 200 Caviar for a while, and it wrote beautifully. Sadly, the owner didn't wish to sell it. However, I've never seen a Le Man 100 'in the flesh' so to speak, although in my best friend's shop, I have seen and handled a green Patrician. It was beautiful but was too expensive for me.  :mellow:


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#12 Xof72000

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 11:46

1988

 

I can only assume the designer and directors head bashing in 1982/3 to think up a name for the new model would have had subtle relationship to Lewis.

 

attachicon.gifDSCN0682.JPG

 

attachicon.gifDSCN0683.JPG

 

 

Not the same name in every country, then, Force ...

 

22289693_1593340287355760_21436459815775


Edited by Xof72000, 06 October 2017 - 11:47.


#13 Force

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 11:55

Yes and not only the Man range. In Japan the Hemisphere is called Metropolitan.

 

One must be very careful with some of the Rhapsody 200 models. There are/were issues with material movement in the barrel. Some pens, discussed on FPN, had sections siezed within the barrel. I had one that was tight but still movable. 



#14 Laureat75

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 15:36

Thank you, Gentlemen.  That's now (fairly) clear!  :)

 

But it's interesting that the Man and the Gentleman seem to appeal to different people, given that several people have several of one or t'other, but few people have both.

 

It's a small sample, of course.



#15 Sinistral1

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 17:53

I have collected quite a few Gentlemen because it was my first "real" fountain pen and I love them.  I also have a Man 200 and they are very different pens, with the Man 200 being far more stocky than the Gentleman.  Both are very nice writers.


Breathe.  Take one step at a time.  Don't sweat the small stuff.  You're not getting older, you are only moving through time.  Be calm and positive.


#16 amk

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 14:57

Xof72000, that catalogue entry is intriguing; in the title it's MAN without the definite article, but in the text it says 'du Man', therefore 'le Man'.... Even on the same page, it's inconsistent!

 

Darn good pen though.


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#17 Xof72000

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 16:32

Xof72000, that catalogue entry is intriguing; in the title it's MAN without the definite article, but in the text it says 'du Man', therefore 'le Man'.... Even on the same page, it's inconsistent!

 

Darn good pen though.

 

Nothing strange in french !

The name of the model is "Man", so when you talk of it's cap ring, you say "La bague du Man". If the name of the pen was "Le Man" in french, they would have written "La bague du Le Man".

And as I wrote previously, the use of "Le" in front of "Man" just means "The" (it's what we call a definite article : le, la, les, ...).

:)



#18 Force

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 19:32

In all honesty, and IMHO, not a great name for a commemoration pen...

#19 ink-syringe

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 14:02

Hearty thanks to all that contributed to this thread.

 

I'll be needing it soon. An old timer here, a wonderful fellow has 2 enormous pen cases filled with Gentlemen /100/200s in some of the rarest (in one case a one off n titanium) finishes and mouthwatering nibs, wants to know what he's can get for them. Some in huge wooden boxes.  Mottled, Jade, Lapis, wood, Sterling, Night and Day, etc. Most NOS. Some with globe nibs, others not, etc.

 

The problem is that I half the time, can't tell what is what.

 

Odd the second time this year I ran into a fellow in his 80s trying to rehome a collection. 

 

I'd like to help this guy out. But this whole line is just maddening. 


Edited by ink-syringe, 10 October 2017 - 14:03.

Looking for a cap for a Sheaffer Touchdown Sentinel Deluxe Fat version

 

#20 Sinistral1

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 16:17

Relax and take a couple of deep breaths!  Perhaps you can take photos of the pens, post them here and get the collective's opinion of which pen is which.  Remember, these pens were often made in custom orders for businesses (or the King of Jordan, etc.) and other large entities, so you might have some of those, too.  Good luck.


Breathe.  Take one step at a time.  Don't sweat the small stuff.  You're not getting older, you are only moving through time.  Be calm and positive.







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