Which Vintage Pelikans Are Worth Hanging On To?

[PenPaper52]

I have only recently started looking into vintage Pelikans....thanks BBO!!

 

Now I am wondering which birds are worth purchasing and hanging on to.

Following are pens I am trying to get my hands on...read...bidding...

Pelikan 100 PATENT

Pelikan 400 Tortoise Brown with matching pencil

and an Old style 250

 

Thanks!

[Bo Bo Olson]

What do you want the nib to do?

 

Semi or maxi semi-flex can be had in the 140 or 400's of the '50-65.

I have a 100n superflex, first stage, Easy Full Flex.

Don't forget the Ibis, like I did. One ended up in a live auction lot I won.....and it had a gold nib....and it was maxi-semi-flex...a very peasant surprise.

 

Some folks pay a fortune for a pen in the States. On German Ebay for E160 I got a '51-54 500 OBBB maxi-semi-flex in Tortoise......a real signature pen...where one needs 2/3rds to 3/4ths a page for a two word name and one middle initial. Luckily I can swap a semi-flex B or OB into it.

Rolled gold cap and piston cap.

 

Lets face it once you start nibbling on Vintage Pelikans you will keep doing so and all are worth keeping. I'd put getting a 120 low on that list....unless you get a deal, which in no longer there like it was 5-7 years ago.....

If possible you could chase tortoise...but there is a sea green tortoise also......there are way too many different ones not even going into the '30's.

 

Once should look at what nibs do you want....EF, F, M, B and BB (those would be true size not the blobs of today) and those in Oblique.

I'd expect all 140's to be regular semi-flex. A 140 OB was not only my first semi-flex but also my first oblique.) That era B or OB is a writing nib, not a signature nib of today.

Maxi-semi-flex is pure luck of the draw outside of Osmia's Supra nib.

If I cut out my Osmia nibs out of the equation...I expect a maxi-semi-flex every 5th or 6th semi-flex. Or so it has run for me.

Most sellers don't really know what semi-flex is...so don't expect any to know what maxi-semi-flex is.

 

Then there is what degree of oblique grind do you get in a War-late 60's semi or maxi-semi-flex nib. Again pure luck of the draw.

I have in 15 Degree and @ 30 degree grind, OBB, OB, OM, and OF....8 or my 16 obliques of that era. The rest are 15 degree. It's a mix of semi&maxi. I am not rich enough to order enough to have a pure full set of flexes in two Obliques grinds. (These are different companies, but I do have one or two 30 degree grind Pelikans.)

So far I've not found any 22 degree grinds....all have been 15 or 30.

It could be back in the day of the fabled Corner Pen Store, the knowledgeable salesman could ask if one wanted a bit more oblique and went into the back room and added more grind. I don't know.

But could explain why no one writes on that in there lacks literature on it.

 

Living in Germany back when things were much cheaper (my Wallet don't know the difference. Broke is broke.)....I got more semi/maxi pens than most and more of both oblique angle grinds

Edited September 30, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[MarcinEck]

I'll suggest you Pelikan 140 with his wonderful flex nibs (for example OB, OM or OF) <70$

or, a little bit more expensive Pelikan 400 (nibs a bit greater, but the same excellent quality and flex) abpout >100$

Both from 50s-60s

[sargetalon]

That's a loaded question. I'd say whichever pens are great writers and make you happy are the ones worth purchasing and hanging onto. Since you're talking vintage, for me that would be the 100N, 140, 400, and 400NN though you really can't go wrong with any of the vintage options. I don't include the 250 in there since it's not vintage but nothing against it.

[Lam1]

To add to the great suggestions above, there is one little pen from the late 60's, the M30.

Although a little slim it is very well balanced when posted and can be had for next to nothing.

Mine has one of the best nibs I have.

[DrCodfish]

I agree with Sargetalon. In that collection you can find an infinite combination of finishes and nibs such that you could have half a dozen of each, every pen with it's own characteristics. (don't ask me how I know this!)

 

In this collection you might include a beater or frankenpen as one of your faves, not for it's looks but because it is one of the best writers in your collection.

Edited September 30, 2017 by DrCodfish

[Bo Bo Olson]

Tor later, next year or the year after.....'90's 381 or Celebry (steel = gold nib) cartridge pens....very good regular flex nibs as good at the '82-97 M400 or the steel 200.

I managed to get real nice differently green marbled pens in a 381 and a Celebry. Those are metal bodied pens with lacquer, rather cheap for such pretty pens...E35-40 on German Ebay....well one does have to Hunt....and stay away from "Buy Now" rip offs.

 

Back when I was buying more pens, very few people bought late '60-70 -early '80's Pelikans. I never bought any or even looked for any, in no one bragged how great the semi-flex nib was or how great the regular flex nibs is.....like I brag about the '80's -90's pens. And they were often spade nibs and I didn't know what to expect and didn't feel like throwing away E20-30.

Now double that now I'd bet.

 

Sooner or later you will get to them too. You should check the prices now....in unless we have another depression they will never be cheaper.....at least keep them in mind.

 

Just about all are worth keeping, some are great nibs....some like the modern 600 which can take vintage great nibs are very beautiful.

 

Just because I don't like the large and clunky 800 don't mean you have to share my opinion. But buying a '87-90 W.Germany 800 is something even I'd do....in that is one nice nib , a tad more springy than the later '90-97 ones.

I had the pleasure of trans-mailing one to someone in Spain, in there are idiots in Germany who refuse to mail outside of Germany. That nib impressed me.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[Dickkooty2]

"It has a name if you give it a name". If it is valuable to you, then it is valuable. Sargetalon has it!

 

I have the models he mentions and some more because I wanted them just for the design. When you write "hang on to", I hope you do not have the expectation of making money on a pen you would like to shed. If you have the patience, you might be able to trade for another model. But my observation is that those who are active buyer/sellers have a ton of experience and knowledge.

 

I buy the stuff I like for my own reasons with no thought that I am investing in anything other than my own enjoyment. My desires are user level examples of the well-designed keystone models together with the packaging and other ephemera that illustrate a moment in time.

[stephenchin]

I would echo what SargeTalon says, and add a note of caution to Lam1's note about the m30 for this reason:

 

All of the older vintage Pelikans (100, 100n, 400, 400n, 400nn and at least the early 140's (don't own any of those) have hard rubber feeds--the ones with the longitudinal ribs that sometimes get broken.

 

Hard rubber is a far far superior material for fountain pen feeds than plastic, and the vintage Pel's have amazing flow (one of the reasons why vintage Pelikans can use drier 4001 Pelikan ink, and modern plastic feeds often like wetter Edelstein inks). They are marvellous paired with Pelikan's fantastic vintage nibs, which Bo Bo can tell you all about.

 

Modern Pelikans, including the M30 and it's siblings, use a plastic feed. The M30 has a patented air expansion system in its feed and section, so it can often flow well but I have had a few that never flowed as well as my vintage ones, though the nibs were great. Two other caveats about the M30 pens: the barrel and section plastic is injection molded and can be quite brittle, so it is not uncommon to find them with cracks; and the feed cannot easily be removed without the rare vintage Pelikan tool. You can remove the nib by wiggling it out (and then the feed drops out), but be careful--the nib is friction fit (sometimes with a dimple that helps to grip the feed) and if the nib gets bent it can also wreck your flow, which cannot be fixed by heating the feed as you would for hard rubber.

 

All this is a long-winded way of saying that you can sometimes find a wonderful writing later Pelikan, but the classics are beloved not just for their styling and their celluloid binde--they generally write better and more consistently.

 

When the M30's were bargains on ebay, a few years back, they were definitely a worthwhile sleeper. Now it seems that the prices have gone up quite a bit, with inexpensive pens coming only from certain countries in Eastern Europe. In my experience, these pens have seen quite a bit harder life than in Germany and are often not the bargain they appear.

 

If you're saving for your first vintage one, grab a bargain if you need to--but in the end you'll probably be happier saving up for a clean example of the great classic vintage Pelikan 400's and 140's while the pricing is still decent and good quality ones are still plentiful.

 

(While the 100n's are also classic and seem to have come down in value a bit relative to their 400 successor's, they're a bit more challenging for newbies (early ones have cork piston seals which are harder to repair, and some hard rubber parts which can discolor; their thin clear ink windows are becoming more fragile as the celluloid ages). They can be more finicky to post (which is necessary for most hands), and their nibs and feeds are not compatible with later Pelikans.) These are tremendous pens but maybe not for your first vintage Pelikan. 100's are even more classic but a bit small for most modern hands. And their barrels are often very brittle now. I don't use my early 100's every day.)

 

Final PSA: if you do buy a vintage Pelikan, please be careful with it. Any plastic, 50-85 years old, can become brittle and fragile due to UV exposure, outgassing of plasticizers, exposure to caustic ink etc. It's not like working on a newly made Pelikan (or Twisbi) Even master pen restorers can crack barrels, blind caps etc. using correct force and technique. And of course, check out the sad photos in these threads of vintage Pelikans (including some rare and valuable ones) which were broken unnecessarily by owners attempting to repair, 'clean' or 'lubricate' their vintage pens without that level of experience. If you really like to disassemble or work on your own pens, probably better to stick with modern ones unless you have some skills.

Edited October 2, 2017 by stephenchin

[biancitwo]

You've received excellent advice. I can only add my personal experience. I use and love my 100. I also carefully post it. It is a great writer. I am taking a risk to use it as much as I do. But, I'm a user, not a collector. I also use my three 100Ns. Same risk. My 140s, 400 and 400NN are all great. Be careful when you buy. I try to buy them in great condition, from sellers with excellent evaluations. I've bought a couple that could not be salvaged, and 12 or so that are superb. If you get a good one, or ten, they are all worth keeping.

[Runnin_Ute]

I recently got a 140 and it has been fabulous. I got it from Rick Propas @ thepenguin.com.I paid a bit more than ebay but he restores and offers a 2 yr guarantee.

[Bo Bo Olson]

check out the sad photos in these threads of vintage Pelikans (including some rare and valuable ones) which were broken unnecessarily by owners attempting to repair, 'clean'""""""""

 

For reasons I have no understanding of other than too early toilet training, or thinking every pen should and can be yanked apart (they can't) just in case there is a drop of ink past the cork or plastic gasket, some folks will be selling broken piston pens as good, because they ruined it, by yanking them apart as part of 'regular maintenance'. (Their cars should be good to buy, having regular oil changes. )

 

Those pens were not designed to be taken apart. They are not an 800/1000, Ahab or Twsbi.

[biancitwo]

I recently got a 140 and it has been fabulous. I got it from Rick Propas @ thepenguin.com.I paid a bit more than ebay but he restores and offers a 2 yr guarantee.

I have a 100, a 140, and an M400 from Rick Propas. Outstanding pens. He is an excellent source of Pelikan information, and pens.

[PenPaper52]

Thank you all so very much for taking the time to reply to the question I posted.

 

Excuses for a late reply, but my iPad had up and died on me. But here I am with a new one...so onwards and upwards

 

I have decided on a 140, 400, 400N for now. I already own several M205, a M250, a M200, and a M481.

 

I have to read all the posts carefully and take into account all the suggestions made.

 

Thanks again.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Eventually, you will keep them all....like a majority of us.

 

I will be selling a D nibbed '40's 400....in that is a nails nail, and I don't need to climb the Matterhorn or stab tanks.

The rest of the semi and vintage pens have nice nibs.

Just remember what nibs you have in which era.

 

And to add to the quest. ...there are un-marked maxi-semi-flex Pelikan nibs in the '50's.... I have a 400nn, 500 and an Ibis.

Pure luck of the draw.

 

Just remember LA was not built in a Day, so there is no hurry....but chose which nibs you are missing when ever possible.

[PenPaper52]

Eventually, you will keep them all....like a majority of us.

 

I will be selling a D nibbed '40's 400....in that is a nails nail, and I don't need to climb the Matterhorn or stab tanks.

The rest of the semi and vintage pens have nice nibs.

Just remember what nibs you have in which era.

 

And to add to the quest. ...there are un-marked maxi-semi-flex Pelikan nibs in the '50's.... I have a 400nn, 500 and an Ibis.

Pure luck of the draw.

 

Just remember LA was not built in a Day, so there is no hurry....but chose which nibs you are missing when ever possible.

I will...thank you so much!

[DrCodfish]

in retrospect I will add this: I don't know of a precise definition of 'vintage' but probably more than half of my Pelikans are 1950's era or older pieces. I don't have a great affection for most but will 'hang on to them' because of all the pens in my collection these, and my 30's and 40's Vacumatics are I think some of the best pens ever made, as well as the epitome of style form their era's.

 

However, If it came to rationing these pens to put food on the table or some such, I know which three Pelikans would be the last to go: I have an 80's era M700 Toledo, an incredible work of art; a 1950's era 101n tortoise with red turning nob and tortoise cap top, more art than function in my book; and finally a plain old 1970's era green 120. I bought this pen new, the first 'real' fountain pen I ever had, not counting the Schaeffer's cartridge fillers I had in high school.

 

So I would say personal taste and sentimentality drive the answer of which to 'hang onto' for me. As someone mentioned earlier, I agree that keeping pens as an investment is probably poor money management.

[Calabria]

The little M100 is my favorite semi-vintage pen

[biancitwo]

I have decided on a 140, 400, 400N for now. I already own several M205, a M250, a M200, and a M481.

 

You listed a 400N. They are hard to come by, but 400NN is fairly easy to find in good condition and at good prices. Please, do not overlook the 400NN, in green stripe, and especially in tortoise. You will love your 1950s Pelikans. Then later, you can explore the 1930s and 40s. I love my 100 and 100Ns. Exceptional!

[RoyalBlueNotebooks]

No matter how banged up it is I am going to hold onto my mother's Pelikan 120 because it's a ST (Stenography) nib, because my mother attended a stenography course in high school in order to become a secretary.

 

 

I don't now why people here are not rating the 120 higher in their wish-list of vintage Pelikans. As far as I know (which is not much I admit), St nibs are not manufactured anymore.

 

This obviously doesn't count the sentimental value attached to the pen, as well as the admirable 50 years that the pen spent in a drawer with the ink drying in it.

When I saw my mother's Pelikan writing again after such a period of neglect, I'm never going to underestimate vintage fountain pens from reputable manufacturers ever again. These pens are strong mofos survivors.