Back To Fp. Searching For A Life-Time Pen.

[hh1990]

Try indy-pen-dance or nibs.com.

 

I recommend nibs.com as well.

[Sabin]

For a life time... Get a Montblanc 146 or 149

A second good choice would be a Pelikan 800...

[Bluey]

For a life time...

 

Of getting pally with CS.

[YordleLife]

Sorry for another quick question. So lately I've been eyeing on this Pilot Custom Heritage 92 pen (transparent body), and I feel it closely reminiscent the style m205 provides. But the catch is the price...On Amazon I can grab the pen for $110, which is so much cheaper than, say, buying it from local online stores ~$220, and shocking $275 on official U.S. Pilot website.

 

What are some risks of buying directly from Amazon (e.g authenticity)? It appears these Amazon sellers are Japan based, so that means no import tax? Those seller profiles on Amazon seems legit though. On the other hand, who would consider making counterfeit Pilot pens when there are so many other luxury FP brands out there...

 

Any thoughts and comments are always appreciated! Should I bite the bullet and grab that Pilot 92 from Amazon?

[Bluey]

There are no risks, any more than buying any other item from abroad. There are no known Pilot fakes in existence. The reason for the cheaper price is because you bypass the custom charges and other overheads that the USA seller passes on to the customer.

 

The only downside is waiting longer for it. You may pay customs charges when it arrives, but I don't know how things work in the US.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Bluey

[Mister5]

I seem to recall others mentioning you wouldn't get US Pilot Customer service. I don't have personal experience trying to get service from Pilot. Personally I got my Custom Heritage 92 from an overseas seller through Amazon because of the dramatic price difference ... The difference is way too much.

 

FWIW, the Custom Heritage 92 has a better feel in the hand for me than the M200, especially because of the longer section. I love the M200 fine steel nib (likely my favorite every day use nib) so they get equal use. I did have to adjust the feed on the CH 92 (skipped a lot and very dry flow).

Edited September 27, 2017 by Mister5

[Bluey]

In some cases, the customer service thing is emotional support(ie the support is there if you need it even if you never do) and sometimes a bogeyman ploy by US sellers to get you to spend the extra. I don't think paying double provides value.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Bluey

[YordleLife]

There are no risks, any more than buying any other item from abroad. There are no known Pilot fakes in existence.

I was reading on my phone and you mentioned frequent after-sale service for Montblanc and Visconti? I see you edit those out to avoid arguments, but I'm curious why pens from these two brands need to send back to them.

 

I seem to recall others mentioning you wouldn't get US Pilot Customer service. I don't have personal experience trying to get service from Pilot. Personally I got my Custom Heritage 92 from an overseas seller through Amazon because of the dramatic price difference ... The difference is way too much.

 

FWIW, the Custom Heritage 92 has a better feel in the hand for me than the M200, especially because of the longer section. I love the M200 fine steel nib (likely my favorite every day use nib) so they get equal use. I did have to adjust the feed on the CH 92 (skipped a lot and very dry flow).

Well, M205 Aquarium was my first choice until I read the QC on Pelikan's nibs can be "a hit or a miss" from numerous blogs...I can see how the Pilot 92 dry flow can benefits writing in Asian characters because many say Western FP is generally one size above the Asian brands (e.g Fine in Western = M nib in Asia).

 

That said, I'm learning Chinese as my second language. Would Chinese characters look better on Pilot than Pelikan pens? What nib are you using on the 92? Mind show me a pic or two where there are a lot of skipped? I also read Western ink in general has a thicker viscosity than Asian brands, and therefore Pilot pens have trouble with Western inks.

 

I have look into inks from noodler and robert oster and PH level...Feeling there are so much to learn and so little time. My plan is to buy 4 different color inks and rotate them among seasons (Spring-Summer-Autumn-Winter). Is it bad for the same pen to rotate between colors and from different ink brands?

 

lol so many questions, but that's the reason I'm in this forum right?

Edited September 28, 2017 by YordleLife

[Mister5]

Sorry I don't have any pics of the ink flow before I fixed it. I have the CH 92 in Fine Medium. I would say that the Japanese nibs tend to run finer up to Japanese Medium where it seems to be on par with European Medium. My Preppy Medium is pretty stubbish in fact. But a Japanese fine seems to be more like an European EF. And a Japanese EF is more like a needlepoint/European XXF.

 

I've tried my hand very briefly with writing Chinese characters and I'd say the Japanese Fine/EF is the way to go, unless you are writing fairly large. You could still do it with European Fine/EF I think, but having good Fountain pen friendly paper will help a lot.

 

Don't know about Western vs Japanese inks. I haven't heard about any issues about rotating between different ink brands or inks in a pen, just that it's always good to flush out the ink when you're changing between different ink to avoid an inadverant chemical reaction. Personally I flush out every time I'm done with an ink and I don't think I've repeatedly used the same ink in the same pen over & over (it may be good to periodically flush the pen anyway to get some if the gunk out ... Ink may dry up in the nib/feed or microscopic bits of paper get stuck in the tines over time)

 

Some say that ink brands tailor their inks for their pens. So a Pelikan pen may tend to run wet (and that is also my experience) and their inks tend to run "dry" which balances things out.

[DanielleE]

 

 

I find myself debating between the Pilot Heritage 92 and the (Pilot Custom 74 with a Con 70 convertor.)

[senzen]

Fountain pen user = weirdo to them anyway, might as well get something you enjoy; also not flashy and not business like is a bit of a contradiction. Pens with rhodium trim look a little less flashy, my one pen that has a uniquely beautiful and timeless design is the Faber Castell Ambition in pearwood, just make sure you're ok with the section less / midget section design. The Pelikan M205 Aquamarine you mention also looks very nice on my computer anyway, never seen it person.

[pen2paper]

You don't need no stinkin' pen stores if you're in the SF Bay Area. Just pop down to Millbrae (Peter's Cafe, a stone's throw from the BART/CalTrain station) for Pen Posse. Check the Clubs and Meetings sub-forum here.

 

Or call a Pen Posse yourself, if you feel adventurous or want a more convenient meeting place and time.

 

If you attend at Peter's, though, chances are good that a dozen friendly pen people will happily assist you in your quest for "the" pen(s). I don't know of any store that could provide the variety or even the knowledge base that Pen Posse has.

 

Good luck, and have fun!

This.

Don't overlook the above option per ether, and jar. Enjoy the discussion here, but if you're seeking three best choices avoiding costly errors, it's the above.

 

For my own use I include one reliable pen that accepts a cartridge, to reload on the fly. And one Platinum with the non dry-out cap design.

[oldrifleman]

If I had to pick just one of my pens to be "The One" it would be my ebonite Conid Regular. I have other nice pens (Nakaya, MB, Pelikan, Platium, Sailor, ect) many are Great Pens, but the Conid is just the one that never ever fails to be a perfect writer and it just feels "Right" to me.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Yordellife

I have nothing good to say about modern gold Pelikan nibs of the 400/600 or 800. The 1000 is a good semi-flex nib......in its too Honking Big for me, I don't worry how fat the nib is.

 

First off, most know Japanese nibs are miss-marked one size; in they were a nitch Market only in Japan before the late '90's. Japanese print a tiny script, so need a thin nib for that.

 

They became main market with offering dirt cheap....pre-cheaper than dirt Chinese, pens...........with a very good nib.

The Japanese don't worry about the years profit...in they are not slaves to a Western bank. They plan 50 years in advance like Toyota.

So it is wise to hook 'noobies' with a nice loss-leader nib.

Which they did. If someone did a survey I would imagine 80% of those who started writing with a fountain pen after late '90's did so with an inexpensive Japanese starter pen. (Cheap Chinese pen for many after 2012 which don't count in this nib question.) Therefor have a Mark 2 calibrated Eye Ball.

 

You will never be cured. Neither will I.

I started many decades ago with American width nibs, so my Mark 1 Eyeball is calibrated to western size nibs which write cursive. Japanese nibs are too skinny for me....and I'm not into spiderweb skinny as is. Being limited to supersaturated vivid boring inks in spiderweb and baby spiderweb nibs. One has to see the ink, right?

A vintage/semi-vintage western F is fine by me....I do have a few western EF's for editing, only. I like a decent sweet spot of F or M. I do have real B nibs.....not skinny M's marked B in Japanese nibs.

 

(I've nothing against a M-F nib when it comes down to it.........in every company has it's very own standards that overlap the competitors.....I do have some.....A Sheaffer M would be that to an old timer Parker user. )

 

You have a Mark 2 Eyeball which is calibrated to miss marked Japanese nibs, so any western nib will be too Fat.

You will have to decide if you are a Sailor man or a Pilot man......just like back in the Dark Ages of Radio, the days of 'One Man, One Pen', the Parker was wider than the Sheaffer. On purpose. They trained their customers to have a decent width instead of that skinny junk from Sheaffer.

Sheaffer trained it's customers to stay away from Fat Parker nibs.

Those are of course thinner than modern.....in folks had to know how to hold and write with a fountain pen, everyone did it for 8 hours a day............Instead of ball point users needing fat tipped and fat nibs.

You wouldn't want a fat Japanese F (EF) would you???? Pilot then looks like a sure thing.

 

Western pens are designed for flowing cursive............up to the mid-late 90's were narrower than now....In Pelikan 1/2 to a full size.

In many to most coming into fountain pens are ham fisted Ball Point Barbarians who haven't the time to waste three minutes learning to write with a fountain pen, the nibs were made stiffer nail for the 800 and semi-nail for the 400/600. That slowed down bending the nibs into pretzels.

 

In so, so many hold a fountain pen like a non-gel ball point, the tipping had to be strengthened, with a thicker tip, and a ball of 'iridium' on both top and bottom. Making for a fat, blobby characterless nib.

 

The 200 is still vintage/semi-vintage narrow, as the semi-flex '50-65 era or the regular flex era of '82-97. There you will find a true western EF.

Aurora makes and made the thinnest European nibs.

 

By the way which Japanese nibs are you talking about the Fat Sailor nibs? Or the skinnier Pilot nibs?

You will have to make up your mind, if you are a Parker/Sailor man, or a Sheaffer/Pilot man. Wouldn't want you getting the wrong width in Japanese EF.....or western xxF, or xxF1/2.

If you print....stick with Japanese nibs which are made for it.....though Western languages even printed are much larger than the tiny Japanese script.

 

Last but not least....skinny nibs are no good for shading. Even IMO western EF are too skinny for shading.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[YordleLife]

By the way which Japanese nibs are you talking about the Fat Sailor nibs? Or the skinnier Pilot nibs?

though Western languages even printed are much larger than the tiny Japanese script.

 

I really like your detail comments and I read everything you wrote . You must be a great story-teller in real life, and I imagine you have many friends appreciate your talent in FP. Your contributions in this forum are priceless and I wouldn't be surprise you qualify to become a co-founder of FPN or at least become a Mod...

 

That said, I think I do enjoy a finer writing because I sometimes write Chinese characters as a second language. However, I only been back to the FP game for 2 weeks and I read generally speaking Western pens are on the "wet" side compare to Japanese pen and therefore Western pens are more prone to smudge when writing Asian characters.

 

You are correct that Western pens are designed to write cursive and more fluid-like 26 alphabets. But what about writings in Science and Math? One of the reasons I want to get back into FP is because I do a lot of math at home, just for fun. What about those special characters (e.g. square, roots, formulas, small notations) that demand fine to extra-fine writing? In this case, then, I'm thinking to get my first FP from Japan and have my second in-house pen designed from Western brands.

 

It would be fun to compare two FP designed for different purpose even though they have the same nib. Am thinking about getting a Japanese Fine FP and a Western Fine FP.

 

This.

Don't overlook the above option per ether, and jar. Enjoy the discussion here, but if you're seeking three best choices avoiding costly errors, it's the above.

 

For my own use I include one reliable pen that accepts a cartridge, to reload on the fly. And one Platinum with the non dry-out cap design.

 

Right on, I should pay a visit before I decide on my second in-house pen. Currently eyeing on Montblanc pens....Gosh, they look SO pretty. Look at this Meisterstuck White Solitary Red Gold Classique FP...I can't resist the beauty of it!!! It would be a costly mistake if I don't like it because I judged it base on its look as of right now.

Fountain pen user = weirdo to them anyway, might as well get something you enjoy; also not flashy and not business like is a bit of a contradiction. Pens with rhodium trim look a little less flashy, my one pen that has a uniquely beautiful and timeless design is the Faber Castell Ambition in pearwood, just make sure you're ok with the section less / midget section design. The Pelikan M205 Aquamarine you mention also looks very nice on my computer anyway, never seen it person.

Well, I hear few recommendations about Faber Castell... What's special about Faber besides it's a well known manufacture in pencil? I read their FP are manufacture from other Western brands. Is that true?

 

 

 

I forgot to ask...To everyone, I read the HP 32 LB printing paper is recommended in this forum many times for being FP friendly. For the sake of my curiosity and love of learning inside-out, I found this chart, which gives measure of paper weight. If I remember correctly, Rhodia, for general reference here, manufactures 80 gram notebooks/papers. According to the chart ( I will give the link below), then it correspond to 20 lb - 24 lb for printing paper. If that's true, isn't the 32 lb printing paper an overkill?? 32 lb printing paper translates to 120 GSM, no?

 

On the other hand, what's the difference between laser jet printing paper and ink jet?

 

http://www.oki.com/us/printing/support/understanding-paper-weight/index.html

 

Note: the chart is at the bottom.

Edited September 29, 2017 by YordleLife

[LizEF]

I forgot to ask...To everyone, I read the HP 32 LB printing paper is recommended in this forum many times for being FP friendly. For the sake of my curiosity and love of learning inside-out, I found this chart, which gives measure of paper weight. If I remember correctly, Rhodia, for general reference here, manufactures 80 gram notebooks/papers. According to the chart ( I will give the link below), then it correspond to 20 lb - 24 lb for printing paper. If that's true, isn't the 32 lb printing paper an overkill?? 32 lb printing paper translates to 120 GSM, no?

 

On the other hand, what's the difference between laser jet printing paper and ink jet?

 

I use the 24lb and find it more than good enough - but I use fine and extra-fine nibs mostly (though I do have some stubs). I've never used the 32lb.

 

Ink Jet paper, as I understand it, is designed to suck the ink in, so it doesn't work well for fountain pens.

[OMASsimo]

Could it be that you're overthinking this quite a bit? I've written the lecture notes for an entire class on group and representation theory with an European OBB nib and it was perfectly legible. It's more a matter of writing style and size than the nib. And remember that Asian letters used to be written with brushes, which certainly don't qualify as EF nibs.

 

I'd recommend to try a few nibs and see what you like. None of us can tell you anyway what's best for you.

[bob_hayden]

+1 for the Jinhao 991 as a stealth fountain pen. I have seven and they work well and cost about $1.60 each, though they don't look that expensive;-).

 

I'd also note that Sheaffer made a series of pens called Lifetime pens because they were guaranteed for life. I can attest that they will last at least a lifetime and that back in the day that company in Iowa really would fix anything that went wrong with them. Mine looks like this

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHEAFFER-LIFETIME-IMPERIAL-STYLE-STEEL-CAP-W-GFT-CF-BLACK-EXCEL-COND-c1963-/391819459083?_trksid=p2385738.m2548.l4275

 

but is a different color. It's my favorite pen.

[Sasha Royale]

Let the people in the classroom stare ! You are the one who does not have hand cramps.

In my middle school days (called "junior high school"), I used a Sheaffer cartridge pen. They are still available, previously owned. So very many have survived in excellent condition. The Sheaffer No Nonsense pen is bigger, and very comfortable to use.

 

If I were entering college today, I would choose a Pilot Metropolitan. It is a very good "workhorse" pen. It may last only half a lifetime. It's 17 bucks ! In 2045, buy a replacement.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Sasha Royale

[Bo Bo Olson]

Thank you....

I really should be working on the worlds largest western even counting Michener,...but I'm lazy.

 

If you are doing math...then baby spider web nibs Japanese EF....and boring supersaturated vivid inks.

 

so if you only do a little math get a nib ground on top to a narrower nib if you have one of those fat 400-600-800 EF's.

Japanese EF seems to be to be more what you want.

 

There is no law 'now' saying you can only have one pen..............once back in the Day....it was One Man, One Pen....and man changed pens every 7-10 years when the 'iridium' nib was worn out......or one really needed to have the most up to date filling system.............pre-cartridge days.

 

""""Well, M205 Aquarium was my first choice until I read the QC on Pelikan's nibs can be "a hit or a miss" from numerous blogs..."""" As far as I know they are talking about the 400/600/800 and not the 200.

 

The 200 has remained rather stable in width over the last few decades.

Once the 400 and 800 were much thinner than today. I mentioned the 800 had it's very own standard, being thinner than the 400 or then 200...which back then were the same.

 

(There is of course with every nib width ever made....tolerance with in a size.....but even robot made Lamy Safari nibs have tolerance.) But I think of the 200's of remaining inside the width tolerance in stead of transcending them with the other modern Pelikan nibs.

 

There seems to be two philosophies at work here....got to be.....'Wet and Generous....butter smooth at all costs.' Ie fat blobby nibs.........or the minority of narrow to real width springy nibs with a touch of character...from not being blobby......being narrower are there for drier. (They tend to find their joy in semi-vintage or vintage pens.)

Drier the semi-vintage and modern 200 or the semi-vintage '82-97 similar nibs....they will be drier in they are not fat nibs.....let me say a F nib that writes like an F instead of a miss-marked M due to it's fat blobby nib. Yes that makes a real wet F....when it's a blobby M.

 

Folks are mistaking pineapples for apples.

 

Come down to it I'm surprised Pelikan is still making a real nib even if it is steel....but the cost of 'iridium' is still much more than gold, so Pelikan saves by using steel and a traditional lesser amount of more expensive than gold 'iridium.'

The 200 is a nitch market nib....for those who prefer a springy ride, narrow nib, and a clean line; over a blob tipped wide wet nib.............................that many think are too wide which they are. Others want a wet nib and don't know about prying the shoulders apart a bit.

 

I had a chance to go to my B&M today....decided against it....in outside the Aurora and the 200 all the nibs are fat and blobby.....the other Pelikans, MB's GvFC and the rest. Parker and Waterman are nails.....and of no interest to me.

 

Tomorrow is a sale outside my B&M part of a fall festival...in Sundays Germany is still closed ...I'll be looking for discontinued ink and or paper. Not fountain pens....in the nibs are too stiff and fat for me.

I only buy semi-vintage and vintage....non rigid fat nibbed pens.

 

Do keep in mind shading inks for fun....two toned....I find the 200's F and M to be good for shading. Shading, is ink drying a tad slower on top of the paper so there is two shades or tones of the same color of ink.

You do need 90g or + copy paper. Laser paper is best.

80g normal copy paper really don't shade much at all.

Shading is not for poor public paper. It is for better private 'fun' paper.