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Permanent Ink For Vintage Pens?

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39 replies to this topic

#21 MarcinEck

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 07:09

:yikes:    It is not working for FOUNTAIN PENS...

Yes; it is:

His producer name is :

Pelikan Fount India Black Fountain Pen Drawing Ink Review

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#22 Venemo

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Posted 05 October 2017 - 11:59

 

As for IG, just had a quick ferret around again, and most sources concur that standard (old) IGs would very quickly corrode the non-gold and non-iridium metals in a pen, including stainless steel. Modern variations, which contain a lot less of the active iron gall component and are also less acidic, tend to behave much better, with paper too, as does modern stainless steel apparently. The older ones tend to be thicker too, and will clog fountain pens. In short, best avoided in any vintage pens, especially those with other metals.

 

That's interesting to know! Thank you!
 



#23 TruthPil

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 05:08

I have a feeling that putting Pelikan Fount India ink in a vintage pen may not be the safest thing to do. 

 

Does anyone use it in vintage pens regularly?


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#24 bob_hayden

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 10:15

I am not sure how "permanent" you want it to be but I just bought a bottle of Sheaffer "#22 Permanent Blue Black" on eBay that dates from roughly the late 1950s.  About then Sheaffer also sold a Permanent Jet Black which was my normal ink.  I used it in a ton of Sheaffer dollar pens which I never cleaned and in one very classy Sheaffer Lifetime pen.  I do not see any of the PJB up for sale today but earlier this month someone had ten bottles to sell and could not find a buyer.  In any case, these were as common back then as Toyotas are today so they should be fine for pens of that era.  And I would be surprised if Sheaffer would sell an ink that would damage older Sheaffer pens.  They actually designed things rather than just copying someone else's work without understanding it.  



#25 TruthPil

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 13:41

I am not sure how "permanent" you want it to be but I just bought a bottle of Sheaffer "#22 Permanent Blue Black" on eBay that dates from roughly the late 1950s.  About then Sheaffer also sold a Permanent Jet Black which was my normal ink.  I used it in a ton of Sheaffer dollar pens which I never cleaned and in one very classy Sheaffer Lifetime pen.  I do not see any of the PJB up for sale today but earlier this month someone had ten bottles to sell and could not find a buyer.  In any case, these were as common back then as Toyotas are today so they should be fine for pens of that era.  And I would be surprised if Sheaffer would sell an ink that would damage older Sheaffer pens.  They actually designed things rather than just copying someone else's work without understanding it.  

 

That's a good point. There are plenty of NOS bottles of vintage ink around for decent prices, including several permanent varieties. In addition to the Sheaffer #22 Permanent Blue Black," there is also Parker Quink Permanent Blue Black with Solv-X which I can attest to as being basically waterproof. Vintage permanent inks for vintage pens makes a whole lot of sense, especially considering those pens are usually wet writers and their matching inks were often dry. 


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#26 Silent Speaker

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 16:02

(brevity isn't my strong suit; reader you have been warned, and I've not posted here for quite a while so it's been building up. I've broken up the post into sections for your convenience)

Ah! Just the thread I've been hoping to find! A recent thread no less! Perhaps you might find something useful in the following sprawl , perhaps you can help me with my own questions? I have no firm answers and am still investigating.

Like the OP I have need for some permanent inks. I'm concerned particularly with inks that won't damage cork sealed celluloid piston fillers and the like. A stained ink window is not as much of a worry (as they're all ambered anyway) but I would like to avoid any catastrophic physical damage to my pens.

Just some points that I don't think have been brought up yet:
Consulting Binder's and Nishimura's sites, you'll find specific warnings about alkalinity and celluoid and latex. A very high ph ink will damage these two materials. How high is too high?

From the same site, apparently most Japanese inks lean toward alkalinity. Whether or not this is high enough to damage a pen with a latex sac or a celluoid ink reservoir, I don't know, but this fact alone is enough for me to be less inclined to use the more permanent Japanese inks in pens utilising the aforementioned materials until I can be sure of their ph value.

In my searches I did find mention (I believe on reddit) that R.Binder recommended Platinum Carbon Black for vintage pens, or something along those lines. I can find no other
mention of this anywhere, so whether or not this is true I do not know. However it is somewhat at odds with Binder's own warning about alkalinity in Japanese inks and certain kinds of vintage pens (providing of course that Plat carb black is in fact alkaline).

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Concerning the propensity to fade:
I recall a story by some Texan or Arizonian (somewhere dry) that accidentally left a notebook out in a yard for a month. The wind shuffled through the pages, more or less evenly distributing the fading power of the sun and destroyed pretty much all traces of the written work within. Water-resistance is important, yes, but so is light-fastness.

Depending on how paranoid you are (or how far you want to take the notion of longevity), one cannot discount the possibility of some moronic descendant leaving something you had so painstakingly tried to preserve for them lying about for ages on a sunlit desktop or whatever. I will not be passing along the most intelligent of genes, so this is a real concern for me(!) One can also not discount the possibility of one's own potential for senility in older age and leaving things in odd places.

Problem is of course the more mild permanent inks that would otherwise be kind to vintage pens don't do too well in the sun. Still, how much sun exactly will one have to safeguard against? I don't know, and that bothers me and thus makes me want to prepare for any possibility as best I can. Pelikan 4001 Blue-black (the non-US variant) seems to be pretty good if you're not too fussed about this.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Paper quality matters:
Use crappy paper, and a weak (school/washable), vintage pen friendly ink like anemic quink blue or quink's "ghost of black" and you might find yourself looking at barely legible marks that look like they were written with old urine before long. I think the vintage pen restorer's favourite waterman florida blue (or whatever they call it these days) ends up looking the same, also Pelikan Koenigsblau.

These are extreme cases as these inks are made with the opposite of permanence in mind, but they serve my purpose as an example. I've written with these on the cheapest of papers and thrown out a lot of old notes I could no longer read, notes that were kept in the dark. More permanent inks should do better on these papers, but that's not a given: I recall a thread by a lawyer on here who was dismayed at the rapid (<1 year) fading of R&K Salix on some important legal docs they
had filed away in a cabinet. Seems to be a mixed bag with that ink, with others reporting no such issues. Considering this was written on some pre-made (government?) form it's likely the paper was very acidic to begin with. Perhaps that and the acidic nature of IG inks made for something more prone to fading even without light? I don't know.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

So say you use good, "acid-free" paper. What are your options? Eliminating Japanese options for the moment, what remains?
- Iron galls (acidic, used back in the day)
- "Unknown Other" (De Atramentis Document, R&K Dokumentus, Montblanc Permanent)
- Cellulose reactive , supersaturated Noodler's (Bulletproof, Eternals and mildly water-resistant variants) and Private Reserve's Invincibles.
- Pelikan's FP friendly Fount India/Carbon particulate ink that's been around for ages and ages (basically India ink without the shellac).

"Unknown other" is vague, but I don't know what makes those inks stick. I have a feeling that De Atramentis is pigmented, but am not sure. No idea about R&K's Doks or MB. In modern pens I
have no reservations on using noodler's eternal inks, or DeAtra document ink (or Sailor's Sei-Boku nano for that matter), but like others here I have my reservations concerning supersaturated and
pigmented inks in older pens that can't be disassembled easily if things go pear-shaped.

The aforementioned experts warn about supersaturated inks, but would it be a matter as simple as diluting say a noodler's eternal ink? Does it work that way? You'd still have to contend with whatever other weird chemicals that goes into making those inks stick around and these can make cleaning pen more of a hassle (bulletproof residue, or whatever that stuff is). I don't know what these chems would do to a cork seal or a celluloid lining.

You all will have no doubt read that oft repeated mantra of use inks made by long established pen makers aka not modern boutique inks (and that usually seems to just be code for not noodler's). What about Montblanc's Permanent range? Can one use those inks safely in a 1950's Meisterstueck?

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

So what about Iron Galls? They had those back in the day, right? Weren't pretty much all vintage permanent inks IG-based in some way? The blue-black ones at any rate?
I have my own reservations on IG (illogical as they may seem) apart from the concerns already mentioned by others concerning particulates forming and lightfastness etc.:

I am fond of Tomoe River paper. It's reportedly "acid free", but is it Lignin-free? Will an otherwise acid-free paper become acidic over time? Would it still be prudent to use an IG ink on such paper? Going back to how anal you would want to be concerning longevity and permanence and how long you'd expect what you write to last, should one discount IG inks entirely because the end result is apparent for all to see with those centuries old docs whose words are literally eating themselves?

Tomoe river is very thin (the 52gsm one is anyway) and there's not much to eat away before you reach the other side. I'm not labouring under the illusion that anything I store away will last for however long it would take for a modern IG ink to eat the paper (if in fact these modern, relatively mild formulations are still able to do that at all), but I don't like using something on principle that I know will destroy something "someday", even if that day might never come. The idea makes me uneasy. Will a Noodler's Eternal ink someday destroy the paper it's written on? I don't know. I do know that an Iron Gall ink might. That alone makes me want to avoid them for something I would want to last "a goodly while longer than other stuff I want to last too, but not as long".

I guess carbon particle inks are a pretty sure thing, if one is not worried about gumming up the internals if you let it dry inside a pen.

I'm sure I'm just over-thinking it but these are the kinds of vague anxieties that swirl through my mind when I'm trying to decide what ink can be safely used in my vintage pens when I'm writing with posterity in mind. Perhaps I just need some thick archival-grade paper (whatever that is) or a journal made with cotton paper to be sure.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

What about vintage recreations like Noodler's Dark Matter or the V-Mail series? A member here once did a garden shed roof torture test that had Dark Matter. It lasted about a month in the rain and sun before it faded. That's pretty good for something that's not IG or bulletproof. It becomes a dark grey if it gets wet though, and I've not yet done a test with it in an actual vintage pen to see how it plays with cork and celluloid.

I would like to investigate Dark Matter more, and perhaps Midway Blue. I don't recall hearing about them being difficult to clean out and they don't have the modern bulletproofing chems that noodler's other stuff have.

Anyway, if anyone could clear up any misconceptions I might have raised, or has any comments or suggestions (besides go neck yourself), I'm all ears.

Edited by Silent Speaker, 09 November 2017 - 16:04.


#27 Ron Z

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 16:34

I have used Pelikan Font India in vintage pens in the past. But the word from an "ink specialist" that closed their business years ago was that Pelikan never intended it to be use in fountain pens, though it works.  It is not an India ink in the sense that Higgins is. 

 

I would not, and do not,  use Noodlers or Private Reserve in a vintage pen.  I have reservations about the other two "boutique inks" as well.  Richard Binder has an excellent article on inks on his website.  Read it.

 

If you want a good black, the best IMO is Aurora.  The best permanent ink I've used is Mont Blanc blue black for documents.  It may corrode steel nibs, but is safe in pens with gold  or palladium nibs.


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#28 Old Salt

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 18:55

I have half dozen bottles of the old style Pelikan Blue Black. Will that do as far as safety and permanence? Always hesitated to put it in a latex sac.

#29 bob_hayden

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 20:43

I have papers going back more than 50 years that were written in Sheaffer Permanent Jet Black on cheap loose leaf filler paper that are perfectly legible today.  The ink holds up better than the paper but there is only slight discoloration of the paper.  But that raises an issue that applies to other inks: most of the inks on which we actually have long term tests on have long since been discontinued.  An advantage of PJB is that it was so ubiquitous that you can still find it NOS on eBay,  A disadvantage is that I have no tests of it for waterproofness or fade resistance, though you could do those tomorrow if you are really interested. 

 

I worked for years in a material testing laboratory and trying to figure out how something will stand up over decades if difficult.  The only way to really know is to do tests that last decades.  But by then the client no longer cares.  I think the Library of Congress did a lot of testing of photographic materials for long term durability.  I happen to know that because I am a photographer, but it would seem even more reasonable for them to do research on ink and paper.  The photo research was available to the public.  Maybe there is something on ink.

 

Koh-I-Noor Document Ink has gone through extensive testing and conforms to international standards of permanence.  The ink is very inexpensive so you might look into it.  You could also look into what it was tested for and how they did the tests.  I have not, but I'd be especially interested in whether the potential threats that were of concern to them are the ones that concern you.  The FBI, for example, might be very interested in resisting the chemicals forgers use to replace one signature with another, but that might not be of any concern to you.

 

On safety I would stick with inks from firms whose main line of business is pens, as they have a vested interest in selling ink that does not result in the pens being returned damaged. 

 

Note that an ink that resists one threat may be poor at resisting another.  You may have to prioritize. 



#30 Simulacrum

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 18:12

I would quote you Silent Speaker but your words are lengthy. So let's imagine all of your wonderful words seen here again because I agree with you completely and I think you have put all in one place what I have been trying to piece together in various other posts and threads and forums etc...

 

Sometimes I get so frustrated trying to sort out all the details of it that I've almost given up. But not quite. lol

 

I've figured out my way for what to use in my 'regular' pens but I've recently acquired some vintage pens and I am on the hunt for what you seek.  

 

Permanent non damaging ink for a vintage celluloid pen with a sac. 

 

I'm still not clear if modern IG inks are safe or not.  It seems there are mixed reviews everywhere I look and misinformation everywhere else.  In a vintage pen some say they should be due to the 'gold' nibs and no metal to corrode.  But they are acidic so isn't that bad for the sac inside the pen ? 

 

 

It just seems so odd that there is nothing more certain.  That nobody's figured this all out yet lol.  I just want the facts so I can make an informed decision but they facts seem all wibbly wobbly.  

 

I think the pigment inks are usable - I'm pretty sure I've heard that before from Indy Pen Dance/ R. Binder - I was searching for the email but I couldn't find it for some reason - I have emailed them about buying a pen and asking about inks etc... I seem to recall they said nano pigment inks are quite safe in vintage sac fillers etc...  just obvioiusly you have to maintain the pen and clean regularly etc... 

 

But I don't know - some evidence presented in this thread says the Platinum Carbon black was very difficult to clean out and they wouldn't recommend it.  - Question - are we talking like hard to clean out so it doesn't stain the pen - I don't really care about staining' per se.. more about 'wrecking' -  Although with the staining - does that mean there's residual ink left 'adhered' to the insides of the pen - If you put in new ink could it react with that residual ink or is it too little to make a difference and cause some reaction.   My limited chemistry knowledge would say there could still be a reaction.  

 

I dunno. 



#31 Inkling13

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 18:48

It really depends on the ink, and the pen. Sailor Kiwa-guro has been a very well behaved ink, and doesn't seem to form water insoluble deposits anytime I have ever seen it dried. If your pen is made of ebonite, I'd be less worried about what would stain it and more of dropping it, as it does get brittle, but is nearly innert. It was used in the black casings for acid-lead batteries before carbon-filled polypropylene as it was impervious to the acid. If it was a celluloid with a delicate coloring, I'd be worried if an ink splatter would become a stain. Other than that, if ink stays where it should be, I woulnd't be so worried. Why worry about a stained feed... if the feed is meant to sit in ink all day long? 



#32 Simulacrum

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 19:26

Yes, I'm not worried about the stains as long as they don't create issues and react with the next ink that goes in there.  



#33 TruthPil

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 00:16

This is a really great thread with lots of useful information.

 

Thanks, Silent Speaker, for taking the time to type up all the questions on this topic that I think so many of us have but haven't been able to formulate into a single post!

 

I personally would keep pigmented and carbon inks out of my vintage pens just because it is possible for a trace of pigment to be left behind in the pen and if you use the ink in the pen often that can build up and cause issues. I just finished a cartridge of Platinum Carbon Black in one of my modern pens and there was a notable grey film in the cartridge which I would not want to be in my vintage pen sac or feed. 

 

Silent Speaker brought up a good point about lightfastness, which is one of the downfalls for many modern IG inks. Although they can boast some great waterproofness, a couple days in sunlight can obliterate whatever was on the page. 

 

Last summer I did my own lightfastness test by leaving some writing samples on the windowsill all summer. Pelikan 4001 Blue-Black and Brilliant Black were fully legible afterward! Brilliant Black faded to a dark brown and Blue-Black to a deep grey, but both were fully legible. Platinum Blue-Black fared decently but faded notably more than the Pelikan. So I wholeheartedly recommend Pelikan 4001 Blue-Black and Brilliant Black for vintage pens as decent permanent inks (the waterproofness will depend on the paper, absorbent papers can render these two inks near completely waterproof). 

 

As bob_hayden has mentioned, vintage permanent inks are also a great proven option for such purposes. I have had excellent results with Sheaffer #22 Permanent Blue-Black (1950s) and Parker Quink Permanent Blue-Black (1940s-50s). Water resistance for both is excellent, but I'll need to do some lightfastness tests to check on that. 


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#34 Simulacrum

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 14:24

Can I ask a specifically selfish question that may help some others to help clarify some of the views expressed in here - or should I start a new thread with this ? 

 

I know nothing about vintage pens - I'm starting some research though. I have just bought two pens (en route via Royal Air Mail-no less lol- hand delivered by a crown wearing gentlemen or lady I assume - I hope I'm home to see this).

 

What ink would be safe in these pens - is there anything specific about them that I should be aware of that is unusual and warrants specific ink use ? 

 

1. A Waterman- 'Skywriter', 1930's Made in Canada, green marbled celluloid, lever filler. 14k nib marked 'R' (inside a diamond) Canada
 
2. A Waterman Ideal No.32 Lever Filler, 1930's, Made in Canada. 14k 'Waterman's Ideal England 2' Nib 

 

These pens have new sacs I'm told.

 

Is the following info. correct ? 

 

IG - mixed reviews - most people would seem to indicate modern IG can be used without much trouble - if the pens are cleaned properly in between and on a regular basis. - Though they are not UV safe, they are pretty waterproof, and probably fairly archival if written on good paper. -  Though some had expressed issues about using some modern IG inks as they have damaged nibs and feeds etc... Should my vintage pens be ok to use with them ? They have gold nibs - so they're safe with IG? Or is there something else inside those pens that could be made of metal that I should check out first ? 

 

Pigment Inks -

 

Platinum Carbon Black - Waterproof, much more uv resistant than IG.  

A number of people reporting possible issues if used over a lengthy period where pigments could build up inside the pen, possibly staining issues- so kinda risky but others have been using it no problems (when properly maintained?)

 

Sei Boku - Waterproof, much more uv resistant than IG. 

Same as Platinum Carbon and other pigment inks - but some report it's a bit safer as they noticed no pigment coming out of solution? 

 

Most Diamine inks and Waterman and other 'regular' dye based inks should be safe - but not all as I've seen some reports of certain Diamine colours being very acidic, or alkaline and possibly damaging.

 

Pelikan 4001 Blue-Black and Brilliant Black -  seems highly recommended - some UV issues but still legible

 

Some historical Inks - some are good, some are very bad

 

Is this information accurate ? Are there other specific Inks people would recommend for my pens specifically ? Or are there any issues with those pens that would be a problem or are they pretty 'normal' vintage pens and should work with whatever any 'vintage' pen would work with (other than the aerochamber parker model which is more rubust than a sac - I forget what it's called)

 

To answer some of the paper questions posed earlier. The best paper is 100% rag paper - more than just labelled 'acid free' (that means it's coated with an acid free type thing that will eventually wear off (essentially).  If you want the best 'artist grade' paper that would be used in a gallery or in a 'proper art school quality drawing' (that's what was sold to me when I was in art school anyways) and what I was reminded about recently in some other posts I was reading - you get Arches, or Stonehenge (you won't find anyone saying anything bad about these papers I don't think - but you'll pay for it).  There are other 100% rag papers out there, but those are the ones I've used before, and two of the 'big guns' in the rag paper world I would say. 



#35 inkstainedruth

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 19:47

Modern IG inks are probably safe but they take a bit more maintenance -- and I don't think I'd use one in a vintage pen that was hard to flush (like my Vacumatics).  Ditto for the carbon inks, but I don't have much experience with them -- other than that the Sailor Nano black did NOT behave in a Preppy set up as a rollerball.  At ALL. 

IME the De Atramentis Document inks are more trouble than they're worth -- I haven't tried them all, but the ones I HAVE tried are much drier than their regular inks, and tend to spread -- a lot (don't recall without checking as to bleedthrough).

I've had pretty good luck with vintage "permanent" inks.  Right now I've got a Vac running vintage Quink Microfilm Black (although it may be someone reconstituted -- it has a lot of blue undertones, so if you want BLACK be advised that it's not exactly Noodler's Old Manhattan blacketty black).  Admittedly I don't know about the UV resistance of those, but I can verify that Microfilm Black IS waterproof.

Pelikan 4001 Brilliant Black has more water resistance than I would have given credit for (dunno about UV resistance there either).  Trying to decide if I'm brave enough to put 4001 Violet into a 1950s era 400 or not....  Although I didn't think twice about putting glitter inks into a 1980s M100 with an 1 mm nib because I can remove the nib unit and soak it to get the particles out if necessary.

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#36 TruthPil

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 00:40

Thanks for the thorough posts. They help me organize my own thoughts on these issues that have been swimming around in my head for months.

Comments are dispersed in purple below:

 

Is the following info. correct ? 

 

IG - mixed reviews - most people would seem to indicate modern IG can be used without much trouble - if the pens are cleaned properly in between and on a regular basis. - Though they are not UV safe, they are pretty waterproof, and probably fairly archival if written on good paper. -  Though some had expressed issues about using some modern IG inks as they have damaged nibs and feeds etc... Should my vintage pens be ok to use with them ? They have gold nibs - so they're safe with IG? Or is there something else inside those pens that could be made of metal that I should check out first ? 

 

Not all IGs are created equal. Different brands have different concentrations of IG in them and generally the more IG, the more sediment may get left behind in your pen to cause problems. There's a big different between the R&K inks, Platinum's new Classic line, and really strong IG inks like Diamine Registrar's Ink and ESSRI. I noticed that KWZ IG inks can be strong too and leave some sediment behind in my modern pens. I'm personally not willing to put any IG inks in my vintage pens, especially a sac pen because it's impossible to clean the sac out or even remove it from the section. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the lower-concentration IG inks like R&K Scabiosa and Salix were acceptable (however, they fade too much to be considered truly permanent). 

 

Pigment Inks -

 

Platinum Carbon Black - Waterproof, much more uv resistant than IG.  

A number of people reporting possible issues if used over a lengthy period where pigments could build up inside the pen, possibly staining issues- so kinda risky but others have been using it no problems (when properly maintained?)

 

Sei Boku - Waterproof, much more uv resistant than IG. 

Same as Platinum Carbon and other pigment inks - but some report it's a bit safer as they noticed no pigment coming out of solution? 

 

I don't know about others' opinions, but I would never put either of the above inks in a vintage pen. I use both of these inks regularly and Sei Boku in particular has stained many of my converters. Anytime I have it in a pen for more than a week I'll have to scrub some of it off the underside of the nib. 

 

Most Diamine inks and Waterman and other 'regular' dye based inks should be safe - but not all as I've seen some reports of certain Diamine colours being very acidic, or alkaline and possibly damaging.

 

Yes, and beware that most red or purple inks will stain the sacs on vintage pens. I think the only red ink Richard Binder uses with vintage pens is Sheaffer Skrip Red. 

 

Is this information accurate ? Are there other specific Inks people would recommend for my pens specifically ? Or are there any issues with those pens that would be a problem or are they pretty 'normal' vintage pens and should work with whatever any 'vintage' pen would work with (other than the aerochamber parker model which is more rubust than a sac - I forget what it's called)

 

Sac pens lever fillers are a class of pen you should be particularly careful with, unless you like to change your own sacs. If you don't mind a grey-leaning blue-black with tons of shading, I highly recommend you first ink your new vintage pens with vintage Parker Quink Permanent Blue-Black (the bottle usually says "with Solv-X") which you can usually find for a decent price on ebay. I hated the ink when I first tried it because I put it in a modern pen and it was far too dry. Switched over to a vintage pen and it was amazing. There's a reason why ink reviewer extraordinaire Sandy1 says it's her favorite. 

 

To answer some of the paper questions posed earlier. The best paper is 100% rag paper - more than just labelled 'acid free' (that means it's coated with an acid free type thing that will eventually wear off (essentially).  If you want the best 'artist grade' paper that would be used in a gallery or in a 'proper art school quality drawing' (that's what was sold to me when I was in art school anyways) and what I was reminded about recently in some other posts I was reading - you get Arches, or Stonehenge (you won't find anyone saying anything bad about these papers I don't think - but you'll pay for it).  There are other 100% rag papers out there, but those are the ones I've used before, and two of the 'big guns' in the rag paper world I would say. 

 

Thanks for this information about paper. You make an important point about an area I need to research further. Paper also plays an important role in permanency and thus deserves its own thread or two. Your artschool experiences would be invaluable for the discussion.

 


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#37 welch

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 03:00

Permanent ink for vintage pens? Especially for lever/sac pens? 

 

Permanent inks from the '50s onward were very permanent, although they will wash off hands and clothing after serious scrubbing. Try:

 

- Sheaffer Skrip from Ft. Madison, Iowa.  Yellow box and label with blue lettering; their "top-well" bottle will look something like this: https://www.ebay.com...usAAOSwNMVaW8dp

 

- Parker Quink, "with Solv-X".

 

Both Skrip and Quink are easy to find. Check, of course, against clumps or bad smells, but don't mistake the smell of Solv-X (smell of phenol?) for mold.

 

Avoid Parker's Superchrome or Parker 51 Ink. Parker warned against using Superchrome in anything but a Parker 51 (Parker 51 Ink was re-branded Superchrome). 

 

There were other inks available, and many might have been deadly to sacs and pens, but have disappeared. A few bottles of Carter's have a little ink, but not much. 


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#38 TruthPil

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 04:03

Permanent ink for vintage pens? Especially for lever/sac pens? 

 

Permanent inks from the '50s onward were very permanent, although they will wash off hands and clothing after serious scrubbing. Try:

 

- Sheaffer Skrip from Ft. Madison, Iowa.  Yellow box and label with blue lettering; their "top-well" bottle will look something like this: https://www.ebay.com...usAAOSwNMVaW8dp

 

- Parker Quink, "with Solv-X".

 

Both Skrip and Quink are easy to find. Check, of course, against clumps or bad smells, but don't mistake the smell of Solv-X (smell of phenol?) for mold.

 

Avoid Parker's Superchrome or Parker 51 Ink. Parker warned against using Superchrome in anything but a Parker 51 (Parker 51 Ink was re-branded Superchrome). 

 

There were other inks available, and many might have been deadly to sacs and pens, but have disappeared. A few bottles of Carter's have a little ink, but not much. 

 

All excellent advice. I wholeheartedly agree!


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#39 Venemo

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 15:37

I would definitely NOT put Platinum Carbon Black in a vintage pen. It is a great ink, I have a bottle and use it occasionally for fun stuff. But it is very hard to clean from any surface, or from modern pens, and I guess it would stain the insides of a Parker Vacumatic pretty quickly, ruining that glass-clean transparency for which you paid a fortune. Or clog that collector of your 51, clog an Esterbrook nib assembly etc. Especially if you leave it unused.



#40 archer2100

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 22:17

This conversation is so helpful. But I wonder if anyone has learned more? 

I'm particularly interested in the question of using Platinum Classic (IG) inks in vintage celluloid or lever-filling rubber-sac pens. 

I wrote to Goulet who sells the stuff, and they sent me here because they don't deal in older pens. I wrote to the USA distributor for Platinum, but have not heard back yet. 

 

It's at the point where I might buy a vintage Sheaffer or Parker as a sacrificial testing unit... 

 

Thanks in advance for any other info anyone can share. 

 

 

PS: I've been using Platinum Carbon Black (pigment ink) in some modern C/C pens with no issues. But I'd only use it in a pen I can flush properly. 







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