I Have Achieved My Goals (Re. Fountain Pens)

[Bluey]

 

The PenShop maybe? I've had a look at Sailor 1911 and had I not known what I was looking at I would have swore that was a MB Meisterstück with a much better price . I'm assuming the 1911 is Sailor's best selling line?

 

I'm not sure about the name of the shop. There were many pens that looked like the MB Meisterstück before it, as it was far from being original.

[GranTorino25]

I thank you for this discussion! I'm relatively new to fountain pens, but reading this made me reassess my fountain pen goals and spending, which will make my buying and experience more purposeful and enjoyable!

[kazoolaw]

But the thing is, whenever you buy a vintage pen unless you're an expert you don't really know how long it has left, as I found out when a Pelikan nib that I went to flex crumbled in front of my eyes. "That shouldn't have happened", came the response from the seller. Except it did.

Broke into pieces? Or "crumpled", multiply bent?

[Bluey]

Broke into pieces? Or "crumpled", multiply bent?

The tipping on the nib crumbled and fell off.

 

It could have been cake i suppose.

Edited September 9, 2017 by Bluey

[kazoolaw]

The tipping on the nib crumbled and fell off.

Crumbled tipping, snapped lever.

 

Can understand your affinity for interchangeable nibbed C/C fillers. Good to leave the Old Ones to those that can.

[Bluey]

Oh dear, I think I may have left my kid gloves at home that day. Still, if vintage can't stand up to treatment in an hour that my modern pens can for a year or more, then perhaps they are best left in somebody else's delicate hands. Pens for me are meant to be used and enjoyed as writing instruments.

Edited September 10, 2017 by Bluey

[kazoolaw]

"...perhaps they are best left in someone else's delicate hands."

 

OK

Edited September 10, 2017 by gary

[GranTorino25]

Having sat down after reading this thread and decided on some goals, I can now say that I am happy to have met my short-term goals for buying fountain pens!

 

My short-term goal was to have 3 entry-level pens, 3 next-level pens, and 3 gold-nib pens, and 1 custom pen with a wide variety of styles, weights and nibs.

 

Entry-level pens: Kaweco Sport (F), TWSBI Eco (F), Namisu Ixion (coming; M, titanium F)

Next-level pens: Lamy Logo (1.1 mm, M, 14kt M), TWSBI Vac 700 (F, EF), and Namisu Ixion Brass (coming; B, titanium F)

Gold-nib pens: Parker 51 (F ground to CI), Pilot 91 (SFM ground to CI), and Lamy 2000 (M)

Custom pen: 18111 design (M ground to CI)

 

Obviously it doesn't cover every pen, every weight, every nib, etc. But it is more than enough of a basis for me to know I like weight in the body (and cap), longer bodies and nibs, and soft nibs, and cursive italic grinds on my writers.

 

My long-term goals that I have set (somewhat due to my partner deciding I can only buy 6 more pens for life!!) are to go after flag-ship models, which are often where the weight, longer bodies and softer nibs all come together. At this stage I am looking at a Pelikan M1000, Visconti Homo Sapiens, Montblanc 149, Nakaya Piccolo Writer, Namiki Chinkin (cranes), and one yet to be determined (possibly Kanilea Pen's Kohala Sunset, or another 18111 pen design, or a new flagship model down the track). Whilst 6 more pens for life doesn't sound like much, this combination of 6 plus the 'basic' pens from my short-term goals should provide me with a massive range of writing options, and plenty of combinations. Each one of these pens could be a life-time companion, so between them they will more than complete my goals and needs!

 

Also, my partner said nothing about buying new nib units for the pens I do have

Edited September 14, 2017 by GranTorino25

[vPro]

Not by the time I come to own them they're not. Of course, there was probably more love and attention given to some nibs even though QC has hugely improved since those days. There were far more nib manufacturers in those days and more variation due to competition, whereas modern nibs in the Western world are mostly sub standard and generic German nibs made by companies who are not interested in making a good writing instrument.

 

But the thing is, whenever you buy a vintage pen unless you're an expert you don't really know how long it has left, as I found out when a Pelikan nib that I went to flex crumbled in front of my eyes. "That shouldn't have happened", came the response from the seller. Except it did.

Whereas when I buy brand new modern, it's past history is entirely in my hands.

 

 

 

 

For me the reason why I now discount piston fillers is because they are integral to the pen, and that scares me as it potentially shortens their life, at least in my cautious mind. If the piston messes up, no more pen unless I send it off (which I'm not prepared to do). This is no the case with C/C as they are more durable and flexible.

I agree with you that they nearly as easy to clean except that you can't just place the pen into an ultrasonic like you can with a C/C.

It's not just about the cleaning and changing inks though, it's about also having that flexibility with cartridges.

 

Plus the C/Cs just happen to be part of almost all of the pens on the best nibs that I've found.

 

I have exactly the same minimalist and perfectionist instinct which drives me to narrow down my collection too.

I just stumbled across this comment, and I found it very difficult to follow your way of thinking.

You prefer modern pens, but not their nibs because they're generic and made by companies not interested in making good nibs. And you dislike the vintage nibs because you don't know how much time they have left. So you dislike both old and new nibs for different reasons. You claim that the nib is the heart of the fountain pen and the rest is just 'baggage', but to me it seems like your love for modern pens is highly based on that 'baggage' I'm genuinely curious to know what it is you like

 

As for vintage nibs, you're mostly right. And I had the same thing happen to me when a Waterman 94 developed a crack in the nib. The gold was probably tired, but in retrospect I wasn't exactly very careful with the nib either. But with careful use and considerate use of the nib, it'll just be a joy to use. I know fears are not always rational, but even if you buy a brand new pen, you don't know how long it will last you. Maybe it'll fall on its tip the day after you get it. Or somebody will take your pen. I used to think like that, and it made me unable to enjoy things. Now I just try to enjoy them as much as I can while I have them, knowing that everything is finite. And I make sure not to over-flex my vintage pens.

 

As for piston fillers and their reliability, it depends on the maker. What founded my love for Pelikans was the fact that when I was new to the hobby and wanted a 'nice pen with a gold nib' at a price I could pay, I knew I could always pick up a used Pelikan 400/140/400NN and have it work 95% of the time without doing anything other than a simple flush and adding some silicone grease. And these pens are often 50-60 years old. While I understand a C/C may give more peace of mind because it's replaceable, not all piston fillers are the same. And vintage Pelikan's pistons are absolutely FANTASTIC.

[Bluey]

I just stumbled across this comment, and I found it very difficult to follow your way of thinking.

You prefer modern pens, but not their nibs because they're generic and made by companies not interested in making good nibs. And you dislike the vintage nibs because you don't know how much time they have left. So you dislike both old and new nibs for different reasons. You claim that the nib is the heart of the fountain pen and the rest is just 'baggage', but to me it seems like your love for modern pens is highly based on that 'baggage' I'm genuinely curious to know what it is you like

 

 

I'm not sure what's difficult to understand about it as it's very straightforward; perhaps if you read my other post it will help. I didn't say I didn't like modern nibs, I said this

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/326425-i-have-achieved-my-goals-re-fountain-pens/?p=3914174

 

Your highlighted comment puzzles me.

 

I like nibs that are reliable and have some character(such as feedback or a sweet spot. I don't like them to have every ounce of character smoothed out of them) that I've found with Japanese and some Chinese nibs but not with any other.

Edited September 14, 2017 by Bluey

[vPro]

I'm not sure what's difficult to understand about it as it's very straightforward; perhaps if you read my other post it will help. I didn't say I didn't like modern nibs, I said this

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/326425-i-have-achieved-my-goals-re-fountain-pens/?p=3914174

 

Your highlighted comment puzzles me.

 

I like nibs that are reliable and have some character(such as feedback or a sweet spot. I don't like them to have every ounce of character smoothed out of them) that I've found with Japanese and some Chinese nibs but not with any other.

 

I missed the key word 'nibs in the Western world', see the quote below. It makes better sense now

As for my highlighted comment, not choosing a pen because of it's filling system and having a clear bias (or preference) towards C/C fillers indicates that the so-called 'baggage' also plays quite a big role in your decision.

 

 

 

whereas modern nibs in the Western world are mostly sub standard and generic German nibs made by companies who are not interested in making a good writing instrument.

I agree with you to some extent, modern Western nibs are less characterful than their Japanese counterparts. But lumping all the manufacturers together and judging them as one isn't really something you can do in my opinion. Sure some manufacturers use Bock or Jowo nibs, but there are still a couple in-house nib manufacturers to this day. And while they don't make the awesome Japanese grinds and widths, they often have something to offer. Take Lamy for example, they're known for their 'sweet spot'. Aurora is known for their 'feedback and great ink flow.

 

What I find the best (for me, at least) is to get a pen I like (both in terms of appearance, size and filling system) and have the nib ground by a nibmeister. If a pen feels good and writes well, it's a good pen - regardless of when it was made, where it was made and who has used it before me

[Bluey]

 

I missed the key word 'nibs in the Western world', see the quote below. It makes better sense now

As for my highlighted comment, not choosing a pen because of it's filling system and having a clear bias (or preference) towards C/C fillers indicates that the so-called 'baggage' also plays quite a big role in your decision.

 

 

Ok, I suppose one way of understand what I mean is that when it comes to filling mechanisms I only want the basics. Of course, a pen needs some form of filling mechanism otherwise it would be a dip pen. I would say that C/C is pretty much as basic as you can get, with the excepion of eye droppers. I'm not interested in additional 'baggage' on the filling mechanism, as is the case with lever fillers( ), piston fillers( ), vacs ( ), aerometrics( :yikes: :yikes: ), and "other" ( )

 

 

 

 

But lumping all the manufacturers together and judging them as one isn't really something you can do in my opinion.

 

But it is. See my 2nd sentence about rules and structures in my first post in this thread. My intention, as I'm sure must be clear to you by now, is to simplify so to get down to the minimum number of pens. I'm not interested in making things unnecessarily complex.

 

 

 

Sure some manufacturers use Bock or Jowo nibs, but there are still a couple in-house nib manufacturers to this day.

 

Here's the killer: they may well be made in house, but it makes no difference because they are still made for cultures(ie the Western world) which no longer write in the fountain pen and use it as an every day object. In fact, in the Western world, fountain pen usage is declining(it is increasing in value but declining in unit sales. This tells you that it's heading further and further away from the utilitarian market and towards the luxury market). The intention with these pens is not likely to be focused upon how they write but on their novelty value and their prettiness and status and other such things.

With Japanese and Chinese pens, the focus will likely be more on how they write because they used as every day objects. And this is why I'm focusing there.

[Liquid360]

I adore my MB149.

 

My favorite pen is my Dupont Olympio.

 

I couldnt possibly care any less about buying vintage pens. I dont get it either.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Liquid360

[dukkimoon]

I am thrilled to say that it's now exactly 6 months since my last visit to FPN and I have not bought a pen in 2017.

 

Great job on this! Although there are worse addictions, pens are a prone to impulse buys and easily can get out of hand. Did you track how much you saved? That's a good way to keep yourself motivated.

 

I'm on a hiatus myself, but I've slightly replaced it with an ink buying frenzy. It helped that I still feel guilty from the huge buys at the DC Pen Show.

[dukkimoon]

I thank you for this discussion! I'm relatively new to fountain pens, but reading this made me reassess my fountain pen goals and spending, which will make my buying and experience more purposeful and enjoyable!

 

I think once you've reached a critical mass of pens you like and different combinations, it's good to really assess your collection. For instance, if you find yourself with pens you just don't use that often, I'd immediately sell them to make room to help reduce the cost of new purchases. This is definitely important once you break certain price barriers. Pens can be like wine, once you break a price point, that's where you tend to live (Until you break the next one, OTL).

[Mangrove Jack]

It's over 2 years since I started this thread. I am pleased and surprised (at myself) to say that I have not bought a fountain pen since. I am thoroughly enjoying the many pens I have and getting to know them well. I am using FP's as often as I always did and they are my most used pens - I use them for general scribbling, writing cheques, letters, etc and I am glad to find that I can still enjoy them without having to keep buying new ones.

[Bibliophage]

 

I think once you've reached a critical mass of pens you like and different combinations, it's good to really assess your collection. For instance, if you find yourself with pens you just don't use that often, I'd immediately sell them to make room to help reduce the cost of new purchases. This is definitely important once you break certain price barriers. Pens can be like wine, once you break a price point, that's where you tend to live (Until you break the next one, OTL).

The most expensive pen I own cost just about $100 - and I don't use it. It's on my "Sell to someone who is a Boston Safety Pen fanatic" list - I just haven't uploaded photos to do so.

[sirgilbert357]

It's over 2 years since I started this thread. I am pleased and surprised (at myself) to say that I have not bought a fountain pen since. I am thoroughly enjoying the many pens I have and getting to know them well. I am using FP's as often as I always did and they are my most used pens - I use them for general scribbling, writing cheques, letters, etc and I am glad to find that I can still enjoy them without having to keep buying new ones.

 

 

This is how I weaned myself out of the "watch hobby". I was on the watch forum every day and it fueled my desire like crazy. Once I stopped visiting the website, I never thought about watches. I went from 13 to 6 and now I only wear one watch - the same one everyday - and one other for formal occasions.

 

I think a lot of people could improve their stress levels and reduce spending on this "hobby" if they just stopped visiting the website so much. I'm at 14 pens and think I can easily cap myself at 20 or even less. I could consolidate a little and get rid of a couple too...I should be putting more into savings and my retirement, after all...

[Arkanabar]

A friend in the local pen club recently told me that it took him 20 years to come to the conclusion that he should only buy a pen if he really wants it, and not overly consider the financial aspects of the sale. In other words, don't buy it simply because it's a good deal.

 

I'd say that's the case for ANY collectible. The only ROI you should worry about is the enjoyment you'll get out of it. Collectibles, be they pens, pocket knives, cars, art, toys, lunchboxes, watches, razors, bottle caps, pogs, or anything else, are not a suitable vehicle for meeting financial goals.

<snip>

 

I've heard stories about people going in to make enquirers about a pen or 2 into the MB shop but they forget their poshest togs, and they treated them like something the resident high maintenance pussy cat had dragged in.

<snip>

 

The one time I walked into an MB boutique and made inquiries, I was wearing cargo shorts, cleated bicycling shoes, and carrying a bicycle helmet (and a Pelikan M200). I was provided with excellent service, and was allowed to write with all of their pre-inked floor model MB149s (one in each nib width), even though I did not make a purchase. And this was in the 90s, when they had just reinvented themselves as executive power jewelry and Rush Limbaugh was waving one around like a baton on his TV show.

[Mangrove Jack]

It was more than 3 years ago that I started this thread and am pleased to say that I have not bought a fountain pen since.

So it's close on 4 years since I bought my last FP.

I thoroughly enjoy using the FP's I have and am getting to know them well and appreciate them too. I am playing around with inks and different types of paper and have learned a lot.

 

My pens have become personal friends, each one it's own character with its own virtues and vices. Strangely, I have zero inclination to buy another pen and my interest in pens continues unabated.

Sometimes sitting back and enjoying and using what you have and not looking to add to your collection brings about a new dimension in your enjoyment and outlook to the hobby.