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I Have Achieved My Goals (Re. Fountain Pens)


Mangrove Jack

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Just admit you're powerless, guys.

 

Not so fast.

 

It's all about having rules and structure.

I've very nearly sold off all my Western pens because they didn't make the grade, and soon I will have none and won't be buying any more. It's about knowing what's important to you, and then getting rid of everything that doesn't measure up.

 

As the nib is the soul of the pen, that's the main focus of what constitutes a good pen for me. The nib and how it writes is all important, and all the rest of the pen is just baggage.

 

Because of this I'm not interested in vintage pens. I'm not interested in trying/owning all the vintage filling mechanisms(especially after owning a vac which was tedious to clean and very clumsy, and lever fillers after the lever snapped off of pen I was looking at at a pen show - if truth be told I did more than look at it to snap the thing, but not much).

For me, now, if it doesn't use a C/C then I won't look twice at it because that's by far the most practical and 'cleanest' filling mechanism for 2017 and beyond.

 

I was even circumspect in the beginning by:

-not having any dupes(eg not having 5,000 Pelikans or Pilot VPs in in every imaginable colour even though they are all the same design, of which i consider pointless and a waste of money)

-aiming to get at least 1 example of every nib manufacturer (eg Pilot, Aurora, Pelikan, Platinum, etc) to fully explore the differences between the nibs within each manufacturer.

-aiming to get at least 1 example of the different styles of pen such as demonstrator, maki-e, different nib styles and shapes, and different nib widths and so forth and so forth.

 

So now it's just Japanese manufacturers and Hero(inc Wing Sung) because their nibs have passed the tests. I'm still buying pens from time to time, but the aim is to sell more than I buy to get down to around 5 pens and maybe less, and it's going very smoothly so far. Once I've sold a pen, there are no regrets.

 

Fountain pens is about a journey of mostly learning and enjoying, not of aimless hoarding.

Edited by Bluey
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As the nib is the soul of the pen, that's the main focus of what constitutes a good pen for me. The nib and how it writes is all important, and all the rest of the pen is just baggage.

 

Because of this I'm not interested in vintage pens. I'm not interested in trying/owning all the vintage filling mechanisms(especially after owning a vac which was tedious to clean and very clumsy, and lever fillers after the lever snapped off of pen I was looking at at a pen show - if truth be told I did more than look at it to snap the thing, but not much).

For me, now, if it doesn't use a C/C then I won't look twice at it because that's by far the most practical and 'cleanest' filling mechanism for 2017 and beyond.

 

 

Got to stop you right there. You say nibs are the most important aspect, and then use that statement to discount vintage pens? Vintage nibs, on a whole, are 'better' than modern ones. They definitely have more variation in their characteristics than modern pens. I suppose it resulted from more manufacturers taking on nib production in-house. You're missing a trick if you've discounted all vintage pens on account of filling systems.

 

I agree with you in that nibs are the defining aspect of a pen, and so are the main focus of my collection also, but if anything that pushes me towards vintage pens - how many modern pens from different brands sport Bock nibs, for example? That almost automatically discounts them from my consideration. Same issue with Indian pens (although to be fair many sellers offer them with vintage nibs, Sheaffer seems to be a particularly common offering)

 

Sounds like you give filling mechanism more weighting than I do. c/c is more practical than alternatives, but do I spend most of my time writing or filling me pens? 99%+ writing, right? So for me that means I'll put up with a tedious cleaning, or perhaps I won't change colours (as often?) with the awkward pen. Not all vintage pens are awkward, either. Pelikans (some? most?) are piston fillers (effectively a non-removable cc filler) with threaded nib units. Makes cleaning them out a breeze, you just unscrew the nib and flush the barrel and nib separately. I might even go so far as to say easier than a cc filler due to the wider di of the barrel.

 

Regarding original topic and opening poster,, it strikes a chord with me. I've had an interest of pens now for about 10 years, but I've only just (this year) returned as an active hobbyist / FPN poster after a considerable (3 year +) gap. I had shrunk my pen collection down to 1 (and then temporarily, 0!), and now I am slowly building it back up, currently with 5 pens. I am going to end up with an eclectic mix of pens with no real theme other than they are pens that I enjoy. Saying that so far all my purchases sport rhodium/steel accents, but when there isn't a choice in trim (I've been eying up Pelikan 400NNs for a while) it won't disqualify a potential purchase.

 

There are other factors too. Lack of disposable income and natural minimalist tendencies in my possessions / consumer patterns, plus a leaning towards the higher price range of pens all mean that my pen purchases are a long time in brewing, and few and far between. Saying that these cheap and cheerful Chinese pens are a real temptation!

Platinum 3776 - F, Pilot Decimo - F, TWSBI Vac Mini - 1.1i

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+1

 

All the good to best nibs are on vintage pens. And if one says '...the nib is the soul of the pen...' how come one discount vintage (or even a modern pen for that matter) for having rotten filling mechanism - lever or vac or piston? And/or why then one would opt for pens only because of thier filling mechanism (that is c/c in this case) regardless of the nib quality?

 

I mean if I buy a pen for its soul - that is the nib - why would I bother about its 'outdated' filling system? Why would I ignore my own criteria of the nib being the soul of the pen and buy a pen just because it has a c/c filling system in total disregard to my own stated creteria defining the nib as the soul of the pen?

Edited by mitto

Khan M. Ilyas

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My goal is to die, with more fountain pens than Jerry. Suggestions, please, on a way to claim "bragging rights", if I succeed.

Auf freiem Grund mit freiem Volke stehn.
Zum Augenblicke dürft ich sagen:
Verweile doch, du bist so schön !

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Got to stop you right there. You say nibs are the most important aspect, and then use that statement to discount vintage pens? Vintage nibs, on a whole, are 'better' than modern ones.

Not by the time I come to own them they're not. Of course, there was probably more love and attention given to some nibs even though QC has hugely improved since those days. There were far more nib manufacturers in those days and more variation due to competition, whereas modern nibs in the Western world are mostly sub standard and generic German nibs made by companies who are not interested in making a good writing instrument.

 

But the thing is, whenever you buy a vintage pen unless you're an expert you don't really know how long it has left, as I found out when a Pelikan nib that I went to flex crumbled in front of my eyes. "That shouldn't have happened", came the response from the seller. Except it did.

Whereas when I buy brand new modern, it's past history is entirely in my hands.

 

 

 

Sounds like you give filling mechanism more weighting than I do. c/c is more practical than alternatives, but do I spend most of my time writing or filling me pens? 99%+ writing, right? So for me that means I'll put up with a tedious cleaning, or perhaps I won't change colours (as often?) with the awkward pen. Not all vintage pens are awkward, either. Pelikans (some? most?) are piston fillers (effectively a non-removable cc filler) with threaded nib units. Makes cleaning them out a breeze, you just unscrew the nib and flush the barrel and nib separately. I might even go so far as to say easier than a cc filler due to the wider di of the barrel.

 

For me the reason why I now discount piston fillers is because they are integral to the pen, and that scares me as it potentially shortens their life, at least in my cautious mind. If the piston messes up, no more pen unless I send it off (which I'm not prepared to do). This is no the case with C/C as they are more durable and flexible.

I agree with you that they nearly as easy to clean except that you can't just place the pen into an ultrasonic like you can with a C/C.

It's not just about the cleaning and changing inks though, it's about also having that flexibility with cartridges.

 

Plus the C/Cs just happen to be part of almost all of the pens on the best nibs that I've found.

 

There are other factors too. Lack of disposable income and natural minimalist tendencies in my possessions / consumer patterns, plus a leaning towards the higher price range of pens all mean that my pen purchases are a long time in brewing, and few and far between. Saying that these cheap and cheerful Chinese pens are a real temptation!

I have exactly the same minimalist and perfectionist instinct which drives me to narrow down my collection too.

Edited by Bluey
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...whereas modern nibs in the Western world are mostly sub standard and generic German nibs made by companies who are not interested in making a good writing instrument.

 

 

 

 

For me the reason why I now discount piston fillers is because they are integral to the pen, and that scares me as it potentially shortens their life, at least in my cautious mind. If the piston messes up, no more pen unless I send it off (which I'm not prepared to do). I agree with you that they nearly as easy to clean except that you can't just place the pen into an ultrasonic like you can with a C/C.

It's not just about the cleaning and changing inks though, it's about also having that flexibility with cartridges.

 

I have exactly the same minimalist and perfectionist instinct which drives me to narrow down my collection too.

 

Is the statement in the first paragraph valid for Montblanc pens too? Are their nibs generic ones of low quality? I ask purely because I am interested in buying one.

 

Your second paragraph is a very interesting subject because I have seen people in this forum who swear by piston fillers (mainly the chaps at Montblanc forum). Instad of using cartridges though would it not be a better idea to buy several converters and fill them with different inks and swap them in the pen instead? I would have thought that would be more economical as well?

 

I have to admit that the more I read in this forum the more confused I get. I was planning to get a 149 MB however I had never considered the negatives of a piston filler. Now I am thinking whether it might be better for me to get a CC Montblanc instead. On the other hand my mind thinks 'What can go wrong with a piston filler?' and "if MB piston fillers were so bad then they wouldnt have lasted so long and neither would they have been so well regarded". :wallbash:

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Haha, but just to break your stereo type, I'm 33 yrs old.

 

Also, the collection is not about utility. I collect vintage. It's about studying history, hunting for a rare pen, restoring it, displaying it for yourself and others to enjoy and learn about its history, and also using it. Every action is so utilitarian in today's world. I struggle with time - doing a PhD, started a new business, and two toddlers. When I take out a pen at the end of the day - for restoration or use - I hit pause and go back to a time when (I romanticise) people were not fighting the clock for every second of the day.

 

Collecting brings different value and meaning to different people. Mine is only one example.

 

But I need to stop :)

 

Well, I am only 40 myself. I can understand the history side with vintage pens but there are quite a large number of collectors here that actually collect modern pens. And that's the bit that makes me scratch my head.

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Is the statement in the first paragraph valid for Montblanc pens too? Are their nibs generic ones of low quality? I ask purely because I am interested in buying one.

It sure is. Just because they're pricey doesn't mean they're good quality. 99% is paying for the brand name in their case.

 

 

 

Your second paragraph is a very interesting subject because I have seen people in this forum who swear by piston fillers (mainly the chaps at Montblanc forum). Instad of using cartridges though would it not be a better idea to buy several converters and fill them with different inks and swap them in the pen instead? I would have thought that would be more economical as well?

 

I have to admit that the more I read in this forum the more confused I get. I was planning to get a 149 MB however I had never considered the negatives of a piston filler. Now I am thinking whether it might be better for me to get a CC Montblanc instead. On the other hand my mind thinks 'What can go wrong with a piston filler?' and "if MB piston fillers were so bad then they wouldnt have lasted so long and neither would they have been so well regarded". :wallbash:

There's a lot of snobbery about. There's also the point that many people don't see C/C as being a true filling mechanism because it's not integral to the pen. They feel that by spending the extra money they're 'entitled' to have a pen with an integral filling mechanism, and nothing else will do (C/Cs are for peasants, such as me). Perhaps they have perfectionist instinct too as they have a certain paradigm of what a fountain pen should and shouldn't be.

Edited by Bluey
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Well, I am only 40 myself. I can understand the history side with vintage pens but there are quite a large number of collectors here that actually collect modern pens. And that's the bit that makes me scratch my head.

Yup, I can't relate to collecting modern pens. I am sure it brings a different kind of pleasure, but I can't relate.

 

I just received a Stoffhaas button filler from the 30s and a rare MB 432 stylograph today. Both heavily oxidised, missing nibs along with a part here and there, in need resackin/piston cork repair, etc. etc. I am going to enjoy them as a project over the next few months :)

My Vintage Montblanc Website--> link

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They often say I am a devil in disguise so I'll try to live up to my reputation. :D I have never understood the obsession of buying endless fountain pens. I understand the pleasure of using one and perhaps having 3 or 4 of them but more than that?? Unless you are a writer or artist what on earth are you going to do with 50 or more pens?? Unless one decides to spend most of their life sat writing about god knows what. Hence why I have always thought (and largely still do) that FP collecting is a hobby for wealthy people (mostly retired). And all this obsession with Japanese pens and urushi and all that? What on earth is that about? Have I been devilish enough to deserve the flames of hell? :sm_cat: :sm_cat:

 

Ha!

 

I'm certainly not wealthy and at 54 I'm not a spring chicken - but still a ways away from the big retirement.

 

Funny - I remember when I had 30 pens - thinking that maybe I didn't need anymore pens. I'm at 75 pens right now and thinking that maybe just a few more will do it...

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Congratulations on such an achievement! I started figuring out that the more I visit this site, the more I think about pens (and especially those that I don't own, and all of a sudden, feel the urge of needing them).

 

I guess I should turn my visits to the forum to a sporadic frequency and focus on the pens that I own.

 

Thanks for this post!

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It sure is. Just because they're pricey doesn't mean they're good quality. 99% is paying for the brand name in their case.

 

 

Oh dear. :headsmack: It looks like I'm back to the idea of buying a ST Dupont then. :(

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Is the statement in the first paragraph valid for Montblanc pens too? Are their nibs generic ones of low quality? I ask purely because I am interested in buying one.

 

Your second paragraph is a very interesting subject because I have seen people in this forum who swear by piston fillers (mainly the chaps at Montblanc forum). Instad of using cartridges though would it not be a better idea to buy several converters and fill them with different inks and swap them in the pen instead? I would have thought that would be more economical as well?

 

I have to admit that the more I read in this forum the more confused I get. I was planning to get a 149 MB however I had never considered the negatives of a piston filler. Now I am thinking whether it might be better for me to get a CC Montblanc instead. On the other hand my mind thinks 'What can go wrong with a piston filler?' and "if MB piston fillers were so bad then they wouldnt have lasted so long and neither would they have been so well regarded". :wallbash:

 

People all have their own opinions about Montblanc pens - here's mine. I have 9 Montblanc pens - two vintage-ish (from the early 50's") - 4 purchased new from a Montblanc store, and 3 purchased secondhand from three different decades - 70's, 80's and 00's. Two of the new pens needed work out of the box to fix skipping issues - the other two wrote fine. So my experience is 50% when new. That said - there is nothing generic about their nibs at all. They are beautiful (IMO), high quality, and have a unique feel to them that I find appealing. The rest of the pen, including the piston, is simply a matter of taste. I like them but that's just me.

 

My 149 is one of the better writers I have and is quite enjoyable to hold in the hand. If you want to try one I suggest getting one used (at more than 50% off retail price) - if you find it's not for you you likely won't have trouble selling it for what you paid for it.

Edited by TheRealMikeDr
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People all have their own opinions about Montblanc pens - here's mine. I have 9 Montblanc pens - two vintage-ish (from the early 50's") - 4 purchased new from a Montblanc store, and 3 purchased secondhand from three different decades - 70's, 80's and 00's. Two of the new pens needed work out of the box to fix skipping issues - the other two wrote fine. So my experience is 50% when new. That said - there is nothing generic about their nibs at all. They are beautiful (IMO), high quality, and have a unique feel to them that I find appealing. The rest of the pen, including the piston, is simply a matter of taste. I like them but that's just me.

 

My 149 is one of the better writers I have and is quite enjoyable to hold in the hand. If you want to try one I suggest getting one used (at more than 50% off retail price) - if you find it's not for you you likely won't have trouble selling it for what you paid for it.

That in bold sounds like a very subjective experience that's personal to you. You can get the same experiences from pens costing 1 $. We can all have these "oooh aaahhh" experiences with pens of any price.

The more accurate indicator in what you've said there of what to expect is highlighted in blue.

I think the point I was making is that you can get much much better pens at a tiny fraction of what the MB costs. There is nothing really objective about them that demands such a high price. If someone in swimming in money or actively enjoys the communication from having to deal with MBs CS when inevitably having to send them back for regular repairs, then fine, but they're not really a very practical option for most.

 

If P&P prefers, though, he can always dress up in his poshest togs with a fake Rolex from the local market to go and visit his nearest MB boutique so he can try one out in person.

Anything less and they may think you're a tea leaf.

Edited by Bluey
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If P&P prefers, though, he can always dress up in his poshest togs with a fake Rolex from the local market to go and visit his nearest MB boutique so he can try one out in person.

Anything less and they may think you're a tea leaf.

 

Dont get me started on Rolex :D :D. I will never buy a watch that costs thousands and then costs near a grand to service every few years. :yikes:

 

I am going to Trafford Centre in a few days so I will try a Montblanc in one of the 3 retailers there. I do have to say that the nibs of MBs are very nice and ornate. Their bodies are plain in comparison to some other pens but they do look well made. After all I have seen a few Japanese pens with bodies as plain as an MB. Now the opposite is the case for ST Dupont pens; beautiful bodies and the plainest looking nibs I have seen (with the exception of the Olympus/Orpheo model which is now no longer in production, typical :rolleyes: ). GvFC seem to be very nice pens but most of then are rather thin apparently (in compariosn to a TWSBI 580 that I currently use). Their Intuition Platino seems decent though.

 

I am not a collector, nor am I interested in the historical value of a pen. I simply want to buy a couple of pens which I can use on a daily basis, are of high quality build, function well and are visually pleasing. Pens that can truly be mine and which hopefully I can pass on to my kids one day (although judging by what I am seeing nowadays pretty soon future generations will be writing with Apple pencils on tablets :gaah: ). I would have bought one of those lovely Nakaya Portable Writers personalised with my name on it but I have no intention to wait for 8-9 months for one to be made.

 

So my quest continues... :unsure:

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That in bold sounds like a very subjective experience that's personal to you. You can get the same experiences from pens costing 1 $. We can all have these "oooh aaahhh" experiences with pens of any price.

The more accurate indicator in what you've said there of what to expect is highlighted in blue.

I think the point I was making is that you can get much much better pens at a tiny fraction of what the MB costs. There is nothing really objective about them that demands such a high price. If someone in swimming in money or actively enjoys the communication from having to deal with MBs CS when inevitably having to send them back for regular repairs, then fine, but they're not really a very practical option for most.

 

If P&P prefers, though, he can always dress up in his poshest togs with a fake Rolex from the local market to go and visit his nearest MB boutique so he can try one out in person.

Anything less and they may think you're a tea leaf.

 

As I said - we all have different opinions and clearly mine differs from yours :)

 

I will note - I've wandered through Montblanc stores in a three piece suit and in ratty old blue jeans with a tee-shirt and have been treated the same by the sales people regardless of my clothing.

 

 

Dont get me started on Rolex :D :D. I will never buy a watch that costs thousands and then costs near a grand to service every few years. :yikes:

 

I am going to Trafford Centre in a few days so I will try a Montblanc in one of the 3 retailers there. I do have to say that the nibs of MBs are very nice and ornate. Their bodies are plain in comparison to some other pens but they do look well made. After all I have seen a few Japanese pens with bodies as plain as an MB. Now the opposite is the case for ST Dupont pens; beautiful bodies and the plainest looking nibs I have seen (with the exception of the Olympus/Orpheo model which is now no longer in production, typical :rolleyes: ). GvFC seem to be very nice pens but most of then are rather thin apparently (in compariosn to a TWSBI 580 that I currently use). Their Intuition Platino seems decent though.

 

I am not a collector, nor am I interested in the historical value of a pen. I simply want to buy a couple of pens which I can use on a daily basis, are of high quality build, function well and are visually pleasing. Pens that can truly be mine and which hopefully I can pass on to my kids one day (although judging by what I am seeing nowadays pretty soon future generations will be writing with Apple pencils on tablets :gaah: ). I would have bought one of those lovely Nakaya Portable Writers personalised with my name on it but I have no intention to wait for 8-9 months for one to be made.

 

So my quest continues... :unsure:

 

If I were going to buy a pen to use for years with the intention of leaving it to my kids I would suggest the following (in no specific order)

 

1) Pelikan M800 - wonderful nib - very nice looking (to me anyways!) and a nice (wet) writer!

2) Montblanc 146 - Beautiful nib, classic shape and look.

3) Parker Duofold - Nice nib, nice writer, classic "timeless" look. A C/C pen which won't need any maintenance over the years (your piston fillers may need serviced at some point) - these don't get the love they deserve IMO.

4) Visconti Homo Sapiens - This one is a bit touchy as I don't have a lot of confidence with regards to how well it will hold up over time but it's a wonderful unique pen!

 

You can't go wrong with the first three from my experience. Enjoy the hunt!

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...

 

As the nib is the soul of the pen, that's the main focus of what constitutes a good pen for me. The nib and how it writes is all important, and all the rest of the pen is just baggage.

 

...

 

Ah, then you need to discover the true esoteric joy of the dip nib. There, vintage has all the advantages. And if you're looking for true variety of writing experience, you cannot do better than to explore the wonders of vintage steel pens (dip nibs). There are literally thousands of different writing experiences waiting for you. With the steel pen you find variations in flex, in spring, in size, in shape, in smoothness, in size of line, and on and on. Each element differs from style to style, manufacturer to manufacturer and contributes to a unique writing experience for each nib. And then there are the stub nibs as well with almost as many variations. (flexible stub nib anyone?)

 

Come to the light, Padawan. Drop all of that "baggage" and discover the pure nib experience. :D

 

“When the historians of education do equal and exact justice to all who have contributed toward educational progress, they will devote several pages to those revolutionists who invented steel pens and blackboards.” V.T. Thayer, 1928

Check out my Steel Pen Blog

"No one is exempt from talking nonsense; the mistake is to do it solemnly."

-Montaigne

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Dont get me started on Rolex :D :D. I will never buy a watch that costs thousands and then costs near a grand to service every few years. :yikes:

 

I am going to Trafford Centre in a few days so I will try a Montblanc in one of the 3 retailers there. I do have to say that the nibs of MBs are very nice and ornate. Their bodies are plain in comparison to some other pens but they do look well made. After all I have seen a few Japanese pens with bodies as plain as an MB. Now the opposite is the case for ST Dupont pens; beautiful bodies and the plainest looking nibs I have seen (with the exception of the Olympus/Orpheo model which is now no longer in production, typical :rolleyes: ). GvFC seem to be very nice pens but most of then are rather thin apparently (in compariosn to a TWSBI 580 that I currently use). Their Intuition Platino seems decent though.

 

I am not a collector, nor am I interested in the historical value of a pen. I simply want to buy a couple of pens which I can use on a daily basis, are of high quality build, function well and are visually pleasing. Pens that can truly be mine and which hopefully I can pass on to my kids one day (although judging by what I am seeing nowadays pretty soon future generations will be writing with Apple pencils on tablets :gaah: ). I would have bought one of those lovely Nakaya Portable Writers personalised with my name on it but I have no intention to wait for 8-9 months for one to be made.

 

So my quest continues... :unsure:

There's a decent place somewhere over in the Northern Quarter but i forget the name of it. Personally I would skip the MB and go for a Sailor or any Japanese.

 

I will note - I've wandered through Montblanc stores in a three piece suit and in ratty old blue jeans with a tee-shirt and have been treated the same by the sales people regardless of my clothing.

 

I've heard stories about people going in to make enquirers about a pen or 2 into the MB shop but they forget their poshest togs, and they treated them like something the resident high maintenance pussy cat had dragged in.

 

 

 

Ah, then you need to discover the true esoteric joy of the dip nib. There, vintage has all the advantages. And if you're looking for true variety of writing experience, you cannot do better than to explore the wonders of vintage steel pens (dip nibs). There are literally thousands of different writing experiences waiting for you. With the steel pen you find variations in flex, in spring, in size, in shape, in smoothness, in size of line, and on and on. Each element differs from style to style, manufacturer to manufacturer and contributes to a unique writing experience for each nib. And then there are the stub nibs as well with almost as many variations. (flexible stub nib anyone?)

I discovered them long ago and have plenty of dip pens, from Bruase Steno 361(my fave) to the Gillott 303, and even an assortment of broad edge for Celtic and Gothic although I don't go there often. Since the beginning, my copperplate has gone from cringeworthy to averagely atrocious, but I enjoy it all the same. And that's all that counts.

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There's a decent place somewhere over in the Northern Quarter but i forget the name of it. Personally I would skip the MB and go for a Sailor or any Japanese.

 

The PenShop maybe? I've had a look at Sailor 1911 and had I not known what I was looking at I would have swore that was a MB Meisterstück with a much better price :D. I'm assuming the 1911 is Sailor's best selling line?

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      Alas, one cannot know “good” without some idea of “bad” against which to contrast; and, as one of my former bosses (back when I was in my twenties) used to say, “on the scale of good to bad…”, it's a spectrum, not a dichotomy. Whereas subjectively acceptable (or tolerable) and unacceptable may well be a dichotomy to someone, and finding whether the threshold or cusp between them lies takes experiencing many degrees of less-than-ideal, especially if the decision is somehow influenced by factors o
    • adamselene
      I got my first real fountain pen on my 60th birthday and many hundreds of pens later I’ve often thought of what I should’ve known in the beginning. I have many pens, the majority of which have some objectionable feature. If they are too delicate, or can’t be posted, or they are too precious to face losing , still they are users, but only in very limited environments..  I have a big disliking for pens that have the cap jump into the air and fly off. I object to Pens that dry out, or leave blobs o
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