Pope Julius Ii 2005 - Valuation Needed.

[Cordovian]

Montegrappa makes special versions of pens to use as gifts for the annual Baselworld shows. I have a Fortuna from the 2014 show that is engraved with watch works parts and studded with small diamonds and rubies (simulated I'm sure).

 

I would not be surprised if Montblanc made award versions of pens on a much more grandiose scale.

[Stitchpunk]

Here is an even better view of the 2005 award pen, and you can clearly see diamonds (instead of rubies) in the cap.

 

http://www.gettyimages.ae/detail/news-photo/thomas-schnädter-bei-der-verleihung-des-montblanc-de-la-news-photo/167046458?#thomas-schndter-bei-der-verleihung-des-montblanc-de-la-culture-arts-picture-id167046458

Interesting and well sleuthed! Makes me wonder if they make some small changes to the recipients' pens to distinguish them from the rest of the pens in the edition.

[Nicholas Green]

It looks like you have a very valuable pen there!

[BellaMama]

Hmmmm we shall see. What about all the people of this thread that are saying it's 100% a fake and worth $5? Hard to know. Will keep you all posted.

[Nicholas Green]

Most of the people on this thread don't own a Pope Julius II 888, so they don't really have valid opinion on the subject.

 

Your pen looks pretty authentic to me, and the pictures posted by Stitchpunk strongly suggest the same!

[horationelson]

Hmmmm we shall see. What about all the people of this thread that are saying it's 100% a fake and worth $5? Hard to know. Will keep you all posted.

 

That is the beauty of the internet - full of people who know nothing about everything, and everything about nothing.

 

This forum is a great resource, but we are essentially mostly amateur collectors/hobbyists, rather than professionals or experts.

[Tom Kellie]

That is the beauty of the internet - full of people who know nothing about everything, and everything about nothing.

 

This forum is a great resource, but we are essentially mostly amateur collectors/hobbyists, rather than professionals or experts.

 

 

+1

Tom K.

[empliau]

One thing you could probably do immediately, although it might not be free, is to take the pen to a reputable jeweler. If it has real diamonds in it that would weigh heavily in the genuine camp.

[thygreyt]

Main issue here is communication. On the one side we are being told of a very rare mount Blanc (Montblanc) without any knowledge of what a piston filler or of how a standard Montblanc pen should be... And on the other people jumping to conclusions on partial data.

 

We all (both sides) just need better communication and information to reach the solution

[CS388]

Fascinating thread.

 

I have never seen a Pope Julius in the flesh, so cannot comment on the authenticity argument.

It does seem, however, an awful lot of work for a counterfeiter to go to, to copy such a pen, with such attention to detail? Surely the tooling and materials to do so would cost more than just buying the real thing. It's not the kind of pen which you could sell wholesale, to make your money back.

 

Fingers crossed for you, BellaMamma. Let us know the outcome.

 

Good luck

[Mulrich]

This is definitely one of the more interesting "is it real" type threads I've read. If this really was a one-off pen than I wouldn't expect anyone to be familiar with it and understand why they'd consider it fake. I'm looking forward to an official declaration by MB.

[Russ]

I too look forward to the determination!

[Nicholas Green]

Fascinating thread.

 

I have never seen a Pope Julius in the flesh, so cannot comment on the authenticity argument.

It does seem, however, an awful lot of work for a counterfeiter to go to, to copy such a pen, with such attention to detail? Surely the tooling and materials to do so would cost more than just buying the real thing. It's not the kind of pen which you could sell wholesale, to make your money back.

 

Fingers crossed for you, BellaMamma. Let us know the outcome.

 

Good luck

 

I'm sorry if I came on a bit strong in my earlier post about members on this thread not having had experience with the Pope Julius II 888. I do apologize!

 

The only question that I have, is why would a counterfeiter go to all of the trouble to counterfeit this pen in such detail and not counterfeit the normal Pope Julius II 888 that everybody knows, but this obscure version that was only given away as a gift and that virtually nobody knows exists?

Edited August 17, 2017 by Nick_Green

[Erik Dalton]

Amazing herationelson thank you. A lot of work went into making this fake. This stuff never seems to stop.

Thank you Pravda, keen eye.

[Tom Kellie]

Main issue here is communication. On the one side we are being told of a very rare mount Blanc (Montblanc) without any knowledge of what a piston filler or of how a standard Montblanc pen should be... And on the other people jumping to conclusions on partial data.

 

We all (both sides) just need better communication and information to reach the solution

 

 

~ Reed_thoughts:

 

Thank you for your astute comment.

Something seems ever-so-slightly amiss here.

As much as anything, there's an uneasy feeling about about any ‘rush to judgment’ about BellaMama's pen.

Where I work fakes are the order of the day, with scams about fine fountain pens and timepieces being an entrenched market sector.

Several posts in this thread have noted that fakes are ever more elaborate, hence BellaMama's father's pen seems like yet another such bogus production.

Yet one hesitates, as the pricier fake pens in this country seldom have the level of detail shown in the photos.

That it's an “obvious fake” may seem self-evident to many, but I share your sense that additional data would reinforce any final determination as to the pen's authenticity.

In any case, all who've posted here have made this one of the liveliest “identify this Montblanc's authenticity” threads in 2017.

It's been great fun to read. For BellaMama's sake, I hope that a satisfactory determination will be reached in the near future.

Tom K.

[Pravda]

Following this thread has surely been an interesting journey.

 

When I too quickly passed judegement on it being fake, I should have clarified that I meant to ascertain that it is NOT a PJII 888. Owning one myself, I could identify stark variations which were enough for me to dismiss without (naively) considering alternative possibilities.

 

Now it turning out to be something different entirely is a very exciting prospect.

 

At that point I would recommend it be sent to Hamburg as suggested. That's the only assured litmus test as boutique personnel will not help at this level. There it also could find the live and care it needs to return to pristine shape.

[Tom Kellie]

Following this thread has surely been an interesting journey.

 

When I too quickly passed judegement on it being fake, I should have clarified that I meant to ascertain that it is NOT a PJII 888. Owning one myself, I could identify stark variations which were enough for me to dismiss without (naively) considering alternative possibilities.

 

Now it turning out to be something different entirely is a very exciting prospect.

 

At that point I would recommend it be sent to Hamburg as suggested. That's the only assured litmus test as boutique personnel will not help at this level. There it also could find the live and care it needs to return to pristine shape.

 

 

+1

Tom K.

[BellaMama]

Thanks very much for all your help and advice everyone. I very much appreciate it. We will send the pen off to Hamburg and I'll let you all know the outcome.

 

A question. As we do not have the original packaging or box, is it worth purchasing something from Montblanc? If the pen does turn out to be an original and there was a decision to sell it in the future, would this make any difference to the resale value considering it would not be the original packaging?

[horationelson]

I am now reminded of a similar pen that I have seen on eBay - the "Limited Edition Award Winner Fountain Pen Elizabeth I". I knew it was a different version to the 4810/888, but now revisiting I can see that it relates to these awards.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Montblanc-Elizabeth-I-fountain-pen-Limited-Edition-Award-Winner-private-workshop-/291872289125?hash=item43f4f1b165:g:YGEAAOSwxg5X1rcq

 

See below pics from that listing of the letter and certificate/spec (allegedly) received from MB.

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/dKsAAOSwFV9X1rdv/s-l1600.jpg

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/OTAAAOSwdIFX1rdt/s-l1600.jpg

 

The pen is different from the 888 edition of the pen (red body) and the 4810 (black body).

 

The photo below clearly shows such a pen being awarded at a ceremony: http://www.montblanc.com/content/dam/mtb/assets/discover/arts-and-culture/montblanc-de-la-culture/2010/6069cee0999e407ebfd77fab2db27476.ashx.jpg

 

I'd have thought that a genuine version of any of these pens is surely worth £10,000+ (it has to be worth more than an ordinary 888 edition).

[horationelson]

Thanks very much for all your help and advice everyone. I very much appreciate it. We will send the pen off to Hamburg and I'll let you all know the outcome.

 

A question. As we do not have the original packaging or box, is it worth purchasing something from Montblanc? If the pen does turn out to be an original and there was a decision to sell it in the future, would this make any difference to the resale value considering it would not be the original packaging?

See if you can make specific contact with the individuals named in that letter I posted above.

 

I don't think that an MB boutique would necessary give you a box. But you should (i) ensure that you post the pen in something well packed (and insured, for a considerable amount not less than £10,000) and (ii) ask MB when you send the pen in if they can provide you with a box of any sort, assuming the pen is genuine.