Pope Julius Ii 2005 - Valuation Needed.

[BellaMama]

I would be very grateful for the help and expertise of the members of this forum. We have just inherited a fountain pen from my mother's estate. She was gifted it by her boss around ten years ago.

 

On doing some homework we believe it to be the 2005 Pope Julius II (4180) which was issued to Patrons of the Arts by Mount Blanc.

 

The issue is that this pen appears to be silver (with a reddish brown lacquer) and a silver nib. However I can't find this particular pen on-line anywhere, only the gold one. This pen does have precious stones around the top and on the clip too.

 

Can you point me in the right direction as to how we can correctly identify this particular pen and get an approximate valuation.

 

Thank you for your help!

[zaddick]

What you have there is a fake Pope Julius 888. The real pen has solid gold metal work, rubies in the cap, and a mother of pearl MB star on top, to go with a rich red lacquer on the body.

 

It is not the worst fake I have seen, and there was an effort to copy the correct nib design, so value is maybe $5. I would think it was worth more as a rememberance of your mother than a pen.

[meiers]

http://www.montblanc.com/en/collection/limited-editions/patron-of-art/35577-pope-julius-ii-limited-edition-888-fountain-pen.html

 

Are you intending to sell or keep this pen?

[meiers]

You can find a wealth of information here

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/90831-mb-pope-julius-ii-888-edition/

[horationelson]

I do find it scary how counterfeiters can make something which looks so ornate and sophisticated upon first glance (but is almost obviously fake upon closer inspection).

 

It's for reasons like this that I would never buy an limited edition (or indeed any!) MB pen from eBay unless the provenance was clear as day and the original box/paperwork (ideally sealed) were still with the pen.

[BellaMama]

Thank you for your replies.

 

To Zaddick - I don't think it is a fake as it was presented to my Mother's boss (who is a peer of the realm and a patron of the arts in London) by Mount Blanc. I remember her mentioning it 15 years ago when he passed it on to her.

 

However it is not a 888 edition but rather a 4180 edition (ie 4180 copies were made).

 

It also appears to be silver rather than gold. It has diamond type gems in the cap and in the clip and the mother of pearl star in the cap.

 

To Meiers - thank you for that information although I can't see a silver pen there and this one is the 4180 edition rather than the 888.

 

We would definitely be considering selling it if if is genuine and when we can be given an accurate valuation.

[zaddick]

The 4810 edition is gold plated over cream and has a different cap top.

Edited August 15, 2017 by zaddick

[zaddick]

Fancy folks get fake pens all the time, although they may not know it. It looks like a status symbol so it is presumed to be valuable.

 

If it was presented by MB then it would have to be alimited production of lower numbers than the 888. They do make more limited versions of their pens, but they tend to be far more rare and unusual, and less likely.

 

Does the pen actually say Montblanc anywhere on it or have any limitation numbers engraved? This would probably be on the lip of the cap. Is it a piston fill (where you twist the back end to activate an internal piston that can draw in ink or water). Is the metal hallmarked anywhere with AG for gold plated silver or 750 for 18K gold. If not, not a good sign for authenticity...

Edited August 15, 2017 by zaddick

[invisuu]

The pen doesn't really look like the 4810 edition, but I did find them being sold here for $3400 brand new, if that helps.

 

http://www.penporium.com/MONTBLANC-POPE-JULIUS-II-4810-FOUNTAIN-PEN-p/3582.htm

 

Edit: I can find them for about 3000$ as well. Original, not fakes.

Edited August 15, 2017 by invisuu

[zaddick]

The pen doesn't really look like the 4810 edition, but I did find them being sold here for $3400 brand new, if that helps.

 

http://www.penporium.com/MONTBLANC-POPE-JULIUS-II-4810-FOUNTAIN-PEN-p/3582.htm

 

Edit: I can find them for about 3000$ as well. Original, not fakes.

 

Those are high prices for a 4810. At auction I would expect closer to $2K. Even Fountain Pen Hospital had one for sale recently for $2500.

 

You can search google for Bonhams auction results for these pens.

[horationelson]

Is the clip of the pen set with six small diamonds, as should be the case on a genuine 888?

 

The bottom of the section (where the grip meets the nib) doesn't look right - the lines aren't clean enough and there seems to be an additional groove around the circumference.

 

Also, it looks like a small red stone has fallen out of the cap. See second photo at the top. My understanding (I could be wrong) is that these aren't meant to be holes filled with little stones, but are holes that should reveal the guilloche lacquer underneath. See the antepenultimate photo here: http://fountainpen.de/patron-pope-julius2-888.htm

[Stitchpunk]

Kia ora BellaMama!

 

Quite honestly I think you'd do better to take a few more photos (both of the pen and the box if you have it) and send them to Montblanc with a request for their opinion. If they think the pen is genuine they will be happy to say so in writing for you, and possibly even give you a retail value.

 

There's a general contact form here:https://secure.www.montblanc.com/en/contact-us.html and from there hopefully you get can an email address to send photos to. I'm sure the forum members would be very interested to hear the results if you care to share them

[Erik Dalton]

I got this photo from the link you all have referenced: Not so sure this pen is a fake. I would take it to a Montblanc Boutique for examination. If it is one of the other versions of the Pope Julius then it's pretty valuable to be sure.

[Pravda]

It is with 100% certainty a fake, I apologize for this.

[vikrmbedi]

I never had the chance to see such high end 888 series pens...

but I have never seen fakes with mother of pearl stars , or fake nibs with proper tipping.

 

if it was presented by a high montblanc executive, could there be a remote possibility that it was one of the prototypes that never went into production. that would explain the lack of finishing touches as it is a mock up.

 

just saying because the mop star and the nib look quiet good.

Edited August 16, 2017 by vikrmbedi

[BellaMama]

Thanks for your replies. It does have diamonds in the clip and the mother of pearl star. Also the piston pump. Those are holes around the bottom of the cap showing through to the red lacquer but two of them seem to inset with mother of pearl.

 

I have just noticed that top is engraved with the letters AP too but not sure if that was done after it was presented.

 

I'll send some photos into Mount Blanc and see if I can get a definitive answer and let you know.

Edited August 16, 2017 by BellaMama

[meiers]

They will want to see the pen directly and won't look at your photos.

 

You could also test the nib to see if it's made of gold. Hold a magnet to the nib. Fakes don't have gold nibs but rather magnetic steel nibs.

Edited August 16, 2017 by meiers

[horationelson]

Whilst I do genuinely hope that you possess a rare prototype/atelier version of the 888* edition Julius II, this does seem very unlikely I think that what you have is suspect for several reasons (in addition to those that others have already pointed out).

 

See below/attached some observations in pictorial form (credit to fountainpen.de for the comparison 888 pics).

 

[Pravda]

Amazing analysis horationelson just my thoughts exactly and you've explained them like it was 1805

[Cordovian]

I'm curious to see if the pen BellaMama has is a true piston filler or if it has a concealed converter with a removable blind cap.