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Wet Noodle Or Just Superflex?


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Iircleary....You have skivvies older than this thread..and prefer milk chocolate {shh..secret santa}...

 

Me: I prefer my noodles al dente........and from the Frick & Frack School of Flex..All nibs flex Once....

 

Fascinatin'................................

 

Be steady..ready..and relentless.......

 

Fred

 

we went to see Sarah Gazarek @ the Jazz Standard...early show of course..................

I see we agree.

San Francisco International Pen Show - The next “Funnest Pen Show” is on schedule for August 23-24-25, 2024.  Watch the show website for registration details. 
 

My PM box is usually full. Just email me: my last name at the google mail address.

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Never thought I said talk about whiskey and have odd arguments!

For some, these activities are a distraction , others have been told to be nice, for others the distractions mentioned are a coping mechanism.

San Francisco International Pen Show - The next “Funnest Pen Show” is on schedule for August 23-24-25, 2024.  Watch the show website for registration details. 
 

My PM box is usually full. Just email me: my last name at the google mail address.

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Getting back to your original post:
As you can see, there is no standardized terminology when it comes to describing flex nibs. So your question is fundamentally unanswerable, since it is asking for a comparison of adjectives, each of which is used by different people in different ways.
I will say, though (as I've said often before), that the mania for nibs that flex wide with the slightest pressure is rather strange. A nib soft to the point of floppiness is very difficult to control, with no real corresponding benefits.

 

As I am new to this vintage flex stuff and my only flex experience is relatively stiff steel flex nibs e.g. No name dip pen; so to get to the point is a waterman vintage superflex stiffer than a wet noodle and better for me to handle, or is a wet noodle manageable for someone with no previous experience of them?

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Datzzz helpful the responsiveness in these floppy things and the crisp line variation is part of the lust and also please🤢🤢🤢keep it all in if it doesn't answer my question. Grrr👿

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Please do read my signature.

Mauricio and I were developing our terminologies about the same time. His that you now read is an improved version of his first set of definitions.

 

""""As such, using terminology that would cover most any nib in use, I describe as following:

  • Firm - no flexibility at all. Common term: nail.
  • Semi--nail 2 X tine spread when really mashed.
  • Soft - a nib that does not flex in terms of any significant tine spread, but is thin enough to have a cushioning, springy effect when writing. Most common in Japanese nibs. I don't know Japanese nibs, but understand the 'soft' nibs are somewhat mushy.
  • Regular flex, are not mushy. A springy comfortable nib. Well mashed will spread it's tines 3X. I will continue to call them (old fashioned/'true') regular flex in that was what they were once.....The Pelikan 200 is a continuance of the '82-97 regular flex nibs. I mentioned other companies that also made a regular flex nib.
  • Semi-Flexible - a nib that exhibits modest tine spread when significant force is used. Semi-flex....again in the 3 X tine spread set. At @ half the pressure needed for a regular flex to go to 3X. (Does give nice flair if German stub with no extra effort needed by the user. I do have German '60's non stub semi-flex that have less flair, but are nice to write with....sort of like a springy regular flex ++.)
  • Flexible - a nib that exhibits moderate tine spread when moderate force is used. Maxi-semi-flex which is I call nibs in the 3 X tine spread set. again, at 1/2 of semi-flex, or 1/4th of a regular flex.............If there is more tine spread than that....it is a good term to use.
  • Extra-Flexible - a nib that exhibits significant tine spread when minimal force is used.....If superflex, 4X+ tine spread, would be my Easy Full Flex.Again at 1/2 the pressure needed for the flex set before it....or 1/8th the pressure needed to flex a regular flex. If you have a three X tine spread pen with this flex....please tell me. I'm willing to chase a great nib.
  • Wet Noodle - the opposite of Firm: a nib that exhibits significant tine spread when virtually no force is used (a rare-ish nib, and the only "traditional vernacular" term used). I do have a Wet Noodle 52 from Mauricio, but it starts out Extra Flexible, before turning Wet Noodle. My Soennecken is Wet Noodle from the start. Mine fall into the 1/2 of the previous set. In there is much variation when one has enough of them is only an aid the noobie to superflex.......*****
  • Weak-Kneed-Wet Noodle........like that '20's MB Safety Pen I mentioned. It seems Mauricio seems to be leaning to a Wet Noodle/Weak Kneed Wet noodle combination, with accent on the Weak Kneed Wet Noodle. Fine with me. I don't need the term Weak Kneed Wet Noodle, but it sure sounds good.
  • He and I are talking about getting me a Wet Noodle with superior tine bend and adequate tine spread. F-BB or M-BBB more than likely.

 

How Odd, Mauricio's definition could be considered convoluted too if one wishes hard enough, which I don't. I consider maxi-semi-flex to be a much clearer definition than Flexible.....if one happens to have a semi-flex or three. Of course if one is lacking a semi-flex...his definition works works well enough.

Of course Mauricio's Flexible allows an odd less flexible Superflex to be categorized, which maxi don't, in maxi-semi-flex is in the 3 X tine spread set.

 

Jon may I suggest Jane Austin or Herman Melville for your English problem. On second thought not, they are convoluted. Out side of 'Christmas Carol' by Charles Dickens, I suggest you avoid him too.

Great post!!

 

You cannot even purchase wet noodle or full flex today. I do not see where the new Aurora flex pens are true full flex?

 

John Mottishaw's Spencerian grind does not look like full flex and Greg Minuskin's needle point, flex grinds are not "full" flex albeit they will flex nicely with pressure. I have a couple of john's grinds where he added flex and it will flex- but no where near wet noodle and kind of on the cusp to full flex, however some of the best writing pens I own as he adjusts them to keep up with ink flow when flexed as does Greg.

 

I do have a vintage Waterman #2 that is pretty noodle-ish and is a blast to write with. Paying $600.00 for say an Aurora flex when you can go to John or Greg and get a custom grind is definitely more bang for the buck. Greg to my knowledge however will not grind cursive italic........

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cheapest way to see if you can handle a wet noodle? Get a noodlers ahab or konrad and put a zebra comic G (cheaper, SLIGHTLY firmer but still wet noodle) or a brause rose (expensive, rusts faster, harder to use than any FP nib, but does fit) into it. If you feel comfortable with that, you can handle a wet noodle.

Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)

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If you want some real quantification, take a look at the post here: http://vintagepensblog.blogspot.com/2015/11/measuring-nib-flexibility-continued.html

 

I always loved that investigation of yours. I think the first part is well worth reading, especially for the equipment and setup, too!

"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick; and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

~ Benjamin Franklin

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The Todd and Miller looks like a 5 X tine spread, the Spencerian 6 X and the Fairchild 5X....and there was no danger of ruining a dip pen nib at that width with those nibs.

200g =0.44 pound.

 

I must admit, I have to work hardest at getting an XXF line, think about it to get an EF....in mostly I write EF-F with my two wet noodles. I do not use my dip pens much. Many of which are somewhat more flexible than my Wet Noddles and a few much, much more flexible.

 

I agree it's nice to have a good mechanical work shop on hand.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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The problem with using spread as a measure is that decent dip pen can go from hairline to 30x wider or more. To be able to create the magnificent swells of the great calligraphers... well, a fountain pen just won't cut the mustard I'm afraid.

The problem using tine spread as a measure is that as a group we are destroying nibs trying to impress each other.

San Francisco International Pen Show - The next “Funnest Pen Show” is on schedule for August 23-24-25, 2024.  Watch the show website for registration details. 
 

My PM box is usually full. Just email me: my last name at the google mail address.

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As I am new to this vintage flex stuff and my only flex experience is relatively stiff steel flex nibs e.g. No name dip pen; so to get to the point is a waterman vintage superflex stiffer than a wet noodle and better for me to handle, or is a wet noodle manageable for someone with no previous experience of them?

 

If you are new to flex nibs and flexible writing you need to consider starting with:

 

(1) A nib with less flexibility. The lower the flexibility the better, for now

(2) A nib that does not have ultra thin line capabilities. Stay away from those XXF, XXXF, etc, for now

(3) A nib with a very rounded tipping profile.

 

The three criteria above will provide you for a more user friendlier, forgiving, and pleasurable flex writing (learning) experience. Once you master the basics of flex nibs, then you can take it one or two more notches higher with either a more flexible nib or one with thinner line capabilities.

 

Regardless of the nib you pick, beware that just because someone calls a nib flexible, superflex, etc. does not mean it is. The internet and marketplace are inundated with all sorts of incorrect information about flexible nibs, with many folks abusing their nibs, with folks making all sorts of recommendations, reviews, videos, comparisons about flexible nibs when they cannot even write their name with one. There are also quite a few "flex" items in the market place that have been poorly designed and manufactured that I would never use or recommend to anyone.

Tu Amigo!

Mauricio Aguilar

 

www.VintagePen.net

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3525/4051556482_36f28f0902_m.jpg

E-Mail: VintagePen@att.net

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At the recent Washington DC show, I was looking at one table where vintage pens were labeled and sorted by degree of flex. I was taken aback to see that the pens labeled "full flex" were what I would most likely catalog as "semiflex".

 

Are you referring to white knuckle flex?

San Francisco International Pen Show - The next “Funnest Pen Show” is on schedule for August 23-24-25, 2024.  Watch the show website for registration details. 
 

My PM box is usually full. Just email me: my last name at the google mail address.

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At the recent Washington DC show, I was looking at one table where vintage pens were labeled and sorted by degree of flex. I was taken aback to see that the pens labeled "full flex" were what I would most likely catalog as "semiflex".

 

http://boredward.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/banging-head.jpg

"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick; and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

~ Benjamin Franklin

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This is where Susan Wirth would interject with reason - pairing the nib and pen to ones hand and use.

By her advice I learned the difference to select for personal use.

I'm also aware of a slight crack in a gold nib from a ham-fisted former owner. It gently semi-flexes probably for the rest of my life by using it correctly,

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At the recent Washington DC show, I was looking at one table where vintage pens were labeled and sorted by degree of flex. I was taken aback to see that the pens labeled "full flex" were what I would most likely catalog as "semiflex".

They get better prices that way. At least across a table it is easier to assess a pen's characteristics than on the web.

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As a seller I get upset when not so flexible nibs are flexed just one time to see how well they work. Icing on that cake is when I'm told I should relabel as a Flex nib pen.

 

On many pens I have had to stop allowing people to test them due to damage. I suppose that makes me the bad guy.

San Francisco International Pen Show - The next “Funnest Pen Show” is on schedule for August 23-24-25, 2024.  Watch the show website for registration details. 
 

My PM box is usually full. Just email me: my last name at the google mail address.

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Left eye dominance is not a myth....

 

We've got a complete mix at our house.

 

I'm mixed dominance; left-side write/eat, right-side throw/kick/shoot/mouse.

Wife is righty all the way.

First daughter mostly righty, except for being left-eyed, so shoots rifle left, pistol right, everything else right.

Second daughter is very left-dominant. I think right hand scissors is only exception.

Son is very right-dominant.

 

I think my father was lefty, but forced to switch to right hand in elementary school. The day I came home from first grade and said that teacher made me switch to using my right hand to write elicited a mild "Oh, really?" from him. And the next day he was at school early, telling the teacher in calm but no-nonsense terms to "leave the kid alone".

 

And that was that.

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