Day Long Writer? How Long Between Breaks?

[pe2dave]

 

You are going to have to be honest with yourself about the size of your hand and the impact of the balance of the pen.

You need to explore the difference between posted and unposted.

For me a pen that is posted has better balance if it is not too long. And unposted pen is not quite long enough to balance the pen property for extended writing in my opinion.

If you are living in Ohio you are not far from several pen shows and perhaps going to one of those and trying out a number of pens may be of assistance.

I am a male and use a size 10 glove. I find using a Pilot 243 or 242 fits my hand quite nicely. Also, you might explore a Parker 51. Every pen has its own needs and as an example I would strongly recommend rinsing out your Parker 51 now and then to keep it running well.

Too big a grip will tire your hand in my opinion. If you insist on clenching your fingers while writing, you may wish to check out a Sensa pen with a squishy grip area. These fountain pens were never fully appreciated by the market and are not expensive.

I strongly recommend that you avoid pens with metal grip areas as they are hard on people like myself who hold their pen too tight.

Once you find a pen that fits your hand and is comfortable, then you should relax your hand a bit and allow the weight of the pen to do the writing. With time, you will find this to be of assistance.

As an example, there are days when I have to write 80 pages of notes.

I would also recommend paying close attention to the nib on your pen. The “heavier” your hand, the wider the nib should be. You may want to test a medium nib first.

Try avoiding a really cheap pen and instead invest in a pen that is a little more valuable and hopefully of greater quality. If money is a real concern, then pick up a vintage Parker 45. Great pen, and that pen got me through law school.

Best of luck,

Bobby

 

1. Note the contradiction to another response re grip size?

2. For me the pressure on the paper does not relate to the pressure with which the pen is held?

3. Re capped / uncapped - just where should the balance point be? This pen is nib heavy (metal vs fibreglass) yet sill feels right uncapped?

4. The Parker 51 (another hooded pen) is just the same as the Lamy, slopes down to the nib, is no help at all in a comfortable grip (I used on in 1960).

5. I'd generalise about the grip? Slippy / rather than metal? I'm convincing myself I need a parallel grip with a 'stop' at the nib end, as being comfortable.

 

I will check out the Sena pen - not one I'd heard of.

 

Tks Bobby

[pe2dave]

Probably not helpful, but the keys to comfortable long writing sessions are in the way you hold the pen (yes, the pressure has to go ...), writing with arm rather than finger or wrist motion, and posture.

ron

Something I have tried (I recall the online version of a writing course - can't remember the name, lovely copper plate), writing with my arm.

I do get the idea, though after attempting to do that, it was so foreign to me. Perhaps I should try again.

Posture I agree with, and am happy I'm comfortable and upright (as per http://lcweb2.loc.gov/service/gdc/scd0001/2006/20060809007pa/20060809007pa.pdf - found it).

 

 

[milkb0at]

What's your grip like, other than too tight? Telling your fingers after years of clamping to "just relax" is tricky, but changing the position of your fingers is easier.

 

I find that having the index finger on top of the section works well as it's trickier (more uncomfortable) to clamp down hard in that position.

[SoulSamurai]

Perhaps a grippier pen will allow you to relax your grip as you won't find your fingers slipping? Personally I love pens with knurled grips. The Jinhao 601 is cheap and I find it very comfortable (though quality can be an issue). The Muji fountain pen might be worth trying. The Levenger L-Tech has a nice grip but the body is far too heavy for me, and it's a bit pricy.

 

Some other pens with textured grips that I haven't tried include the Rotring 600, the Waterman Exclusive, and some Montblanc Starwalkers.

[Chrissy]

I could write with my Montblanc 146 OM all day. I know it's an expensive pen, and if I'm completely honest, it's probably not worth the retail price that Montblanc put on it. But it is so good to write with, I just love it.

[Namo]

If I may: I do write for about three hours almost every day, either note taking (I teach) or writing a reading, an article or parts of a book.

 

1) To each his/her own. There are no rules here. I for one love the heavy steel Lamy 2000... You will have to experiment.

 

2) Once you find the right pen, don't care for the price. If you are serious about writing, pay what is needed: this will be your tool. But maybe the right pen will be cheap. I have three writers. One is a 500$+ pen, the other is about 300$, the third (and currently the most used) is 60$.

 

3) Changing the grip to tripod took me three days.

 

Good luck

[Sasha Royale]

I used a Parker 45 through college. THAT was a lot of writing ! The pen is slender for my needs, but the smooth ink flow saved me, giving an advantage over "death-grip" ballpoint pens. Now, I know better. I use many different pens for fun and variety. When I plan to write a lot, I choose a fat, heavy pen. The diameter gives good contact, without a tight grip, and the weight self-settles in my hand.

Of course, I am an old man, not in college anymore. I can stop writing anytime, and give myself a break and a rhum and ginger beer.

[JakobS]

My current three writers that I use for a minimum of 2-3 hours a day are:

 

Esterbrook SM Deluxe with a 9668 nib

 

Sheaffer Imperial II Deluxe with a medium nib

 

Esterbrook Relief 2-L with a medium nib

 

I agree that how you hold the pen will be the greatest importance to the comfort of writing for long periods of time, and to try to avoid putting pressure on the nib. I too find I place a lot of pressure on my pens compared to others (most specifically my wife!) so have been trying to be more conscious about doing so!

Edited August 9, 2017 by JakobS

[pe2dave]

Try fixing the grip 1st. I suspect the Lamy is too smooth because you are puttin gmore weight on the nib, causing it to slip. In addition, the ink type is important with the Lamy 2K. I get lot sof different line variation with different inks. You can use the ears of the nib holder to help you stabilise the pen.

 

Other pens you could try is the Parker 45 - its smaller and the plastic grip is more forgiving. A pen with a wider grip - such as the MB146 may also help, but that won't do your bank balance much good - try before you buy.

Tks. Useful. IMHO my tight grip is habit, rather than necessity? Agreed it is smooth. I'll wait some before I address that aspect (£££££). I'm happy with ink flow (so far so good, so far so good) using Diamine.

I'm holding it marginally below the 'ears' (too small to be called that?) which IMO are too small to give any grip.

 

+1 on MB. Too far OTT for me.

Parker 45 - looks like an ebay search now. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-PARKER-45-FLIGHTER-DELUXE-FOUNTAIN-PEN-BRUSHED-STEEL-GT-NEW-UNUSED-/302405657635 shows a profile not unlike the 51 and Lamy 2000? How 'more forgiving'?

 

[ac12]

 

 

 

Parker 45 - looks like an ebay search now. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-PARKER-45-FLIGHTER-DELUXE-FOUNTAIN-PEN-BRUSHED-STEEL-GT-NEW-UNUSED-/302405657635 shows a profile not unlike the 51 and Lamy 2000? How 'more forgiving'?

 

 

Think of the Lamy 2000 as an "oversized" Parker 45.

 

I don't know what you mean by "more forgiving."

 

As I mentioned before, if you have oily sweaty fingers, and you grip TIGHT and press down on the pen, your fingers WILL slide towards the nib. That was my problem in college.

The amount of exposed nib on the P45 is somewhat similar to the exposed nib on the L-2000.

[Joe in Seattle]

For me, MB 146 is ideal in balance & weight for long writing sessions.

[Bluey]

 

Or is it just me that needs to reduce my grip (obvious).

 

 

I would say that this is the best place to start for the long term. Trying to find a pen to suit your current grip is a hack and should be a short term measure, otherwise you may find that some of your current pens will be less suitable for you when your grip is improved.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Bluey

[pe2dave]

Reducing your grip can be done, but it's easier said than done. Years or decades of muscle memory is not something your brain wants to let go of easily.

 

I made progress, but I still grip too tightly by some people's standards. But it works for me.

 

Thicker pens really help not grip as hard. Edison Collier and Ranga Bamboo are two I would grab for long writing sessions. Have you tried a thicker diameter pen? (I don't know how thick the 2000 is to be honest). I have thinner pens that I enjoy, but the second something thinner is in my hands it activates The Clamp. OK for a quick jot or a grocery list but if I'm writing a full page or more I need a thicker pen.

From the Palmer document referenced above, "The wrist and side of the hand should never touch the paper. There are only two rests, the muscle near the elbow.. and the third and fourth fingers, those fingers supplying a movable rest"

The latter point seems to make the most difference. Allowing(making easier?) a lighter grip.

 

Thanks all. I'll persevere.

[ac12]

 

 

From the Palmer document referenced above, "The wrist and side of the hand should never touch the paper. There are only two rests, the muscle near the elbow.. and the third and fourth fingers, those fingers supplying a movable rest"
The latter point seems to make the most difference. Allowing(making easier?) a lighter grip.

Thanks all. I'll persevere.

 

That particular Palmer grip is meant for using a dip pen where the nib is in line with the downstroke.

I find that grip to be rather awkward to use.

That grip also requires ARM writing. You cannot finger write with that grip.

You are actually resting on the finger nails of the 2 fingers. The nail is smoother on the paper than the skin of your finger.

 

A kinda similar approach can be done for the tripod grip.

 

Actually, you have to make the effort to NOT grip the pen TIGHT.

Try this:

• Hold your open hand in front of you
• Bring the FINGERS down to the thumb
  • For some muscular reason that I don't understand, if I push the thumb to the fingers, my hand gets tense.
  • Both methods look the same in the end, but the effect on the hand muscles are different.
• Put the pen into your hand.

When you hold the pen to write, the index/pointing finger should be convex/arched upward. If it is flat or concave/arched down to the pen, you are holding the pen too tight.

[pe2dave]

 

 

That particular Palmer grip is meant for using a dip pen where the nib is in line with the downstroke.

I find that grip to be rather awkward to use.

That grip also requires ARM writing. You cannot finger write with that grip.

You are actually resting on the finger nails of the 2 fingers. The nail is smoother on the paper than the skin of your finger.

 

A kinda similar approach can be done for the tripod grip.

 

Actually, you have to make the effort to NOT grip the pen TIGHT.

Try this:

• Hold your open hand in front of you
• Bring the FINGERS down to the thumb
  • For some muscular reason that I don't understand, if I push the thumb to the fingers, my hand gets tense.
  • Both methods look the same in the end, but the effect on the hand muscles are different.
• Put the pen into your hand.

When you hold the pen to write, the index/pointing finger should be convex/arched upward. If it is flat or concave/arched down to the pen, you are holding the pen too tight.

Whatever works for you?

[Namo]

Found this:

 

http://www.montessorialliance.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/pencil_grip_postures.gif

[rwilsonedn]

Whatever works for you?

 

In general I agree with this sentiment. I don't like people telling me how to do things in great detail (it's a personal failing of mine.) And to some extent, if the way you hold the pen is allowing you to write as well as you wish, for as long as you wish, fine.

But in longer sessions, how you do it does seem to make a difference. The received wisdom about no pressure, arm writing, and posture reduce fatigue and allow you to form attractive letters consistently. If you experiment with different kinds of nibs, you may find that only a few good habits work well., while bad habits hold you back. And in the long run, I suspect that as we age, we retain fine control of the big arm muscles longer than we do of the finger and wrist muscles. So in the long run ...

ron

[ac12]

 

Whatever works for you?

 

fine

 

gud luk

[Sandy1]

Hi,,

 

In addition to the sound Replies by other members:

 

Having a 'proper' grip is essential for long haul writing. What meets that criteria for one person is not that for another, but the key is that one grasp the pen lightly - no pinching, and little downward pressure.

 

Also the pen must be held so that the nib runs on the sweet spot.

-> You may wish to give pens with a Waverley nib a fair go, such as the conical nib Sheaffers.

(Somehow I wonder if people use excess pressure because they're not on the sweet spot. ?)

 

I like pens with a long smooth tapered section, so I can wiggle about during a writing session. If the sweet spot is the pivot point, changing the point that one grasps the pen can give some respite.

 

As my daily writer for some years is a Parker Sonnet, I lean towards heavier pens. e.g. Sheaffer Targa, Waterman Carene, Pelikan M640

 

Lighter (low mass) are wonderful too. e.g. Sheaffer Balance (too many choices), Parker 51, Pelikan M400, Parker Newhaven Duofold aero, Pilot C74, MB149

 

Balance of the pen is critical - I hate back-weighted pens, so adore the Eversharp Skyline.

-> Desk pens with impossiblely long long long barrels might be in the picture. The Platinum Carbon Pen is a good inexpensive example.

 

I have no problem writing for eight+ hours, interupted only when my pen or I need bio-breaks.

 

Oh, I prefer to be seated in a fixed chair, rather than one on wheels.

 

Bye,

S1

 

__ __

 

Also note that I have been practicing Judo for some years, so my grip is rather strong; and that I prefer to move the paper under my hand to keep things aligned rather than move myself (the geometry becomes more than awkward), which is something I learned from watching web offset presses: the inky impression is rotating on one axis, and the paper is in motion on a tangent to kiss it. {Like too many of my dates} So do not succumb to the tyranny of the page - especially when working on paper greater than A4.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Sandy1