Day Long Writer? How Long Between Breaks?

[pe2dave]

I enjoy writing. I enjoy using a fountain pen.
For my sins, I tend to grip the pen 'too' hard. In seeking a fp with a good 'shape' at the grip, I'm tending towards the 'flared' grip, i.e.

turns out at the nib, giving my fingers something to rest on. The TWSBI 530 exemplifies this.

Also critical (and personal?) the amount of pen+nib exposed at my finger tips? Too short makes my hand small, too long I lose

control (and grip even harder!). I like a smooth nib. Too smooth and I find it harder to control... keep under control?

 

New purchase, Lamy 2000. Almost too smooth? Lovely wet writer though. Well made, good reviews etc.

Negative. the 'slope' from grip to nib? Almost helps my fingers slide down to the nib? Result, I'm finding I grip

it tightly and my fingers are aching after a sheet of A4?

 

Do you have any 'long' writers? With which you are comfortable writing after 30 minutes, an hour?

 

Or is it just me that needs to reduce my grip (obvious).

 

I'm interested if other 'long writers' have similar problems / solutions?

[KellyMcJ]

Reducing your grip can be done, but it's easier said than done. Years or decades of muscle memory is not something your brain wants to let go of easily.

 

I made progress, but I still grip too tightly by some people's standards. But it works for me.

 

Thicker pens really help not grip as hard. Edison Collier and Ranga Bamboo are two I would grab for long writing sessions. Have you tried a thicker diameter pen? (I don't know how thick the 2000 is to be honest). I have thinner pens that I enjoy, but the second something thinner is in my hands it activates The Clamp. OK for a quick jot or a grocery list but if I'm writing a full page or more I need a thicker pen.

[ENewton]

For long writing sessions, I prefer a pen that has its weight balanced so that it rests mostly on the space between my thumb and forefinger, leaving my fingers for steering, rather than for gripping.

[Bookman]

Edison Collier and Waterman Phileas are at the top of my list.

[pe2dave]

Reducing your grip can be done, but it's easier said than done. Years or decades of muscle memory is not something your brain wants to let go of easily.

 

I made progress, but I still grip too tightly by some people's standards. But it works for me.

 

Thicker pens really help not grip as hard. Edison Collier and Ranga Bamboo are two I would grab for long writing sessions. Have you tried a thicker diameter pen? (I don't know how thick the 2000 is to be honest). I have thinner pens that I enjoy, but the second something thinner is in my hands it activates The Clamp. OK for a quick jot or a grocery list but if I'm writing a full page or more I need a thicker pen.

Yes - but not found the combination of good nib / thicker section, 'shaped' section that I like?

Conrad was best, but flooded the desk!

Totally agree though, thinner is good for quick, but not for extended sessions.

[pe2dave]

Edison Collier and Waterman Phileas are at the top of my list.

For how long? Minutes or hours?

[eharriett]

Similar problem here. It comes with writing with ballpoints my whole life.

 

For me, it seems the diameter of the pen is making the difference. The Snorkel/Esterbrook SJ/LJ seem to be the right diameter for me to ease up (I asked this in another thread and I think they were 11.5mm each). I discovered this accidentally when I noticed those were the two pens I had no cramps with after a long session and learned they were the same diameter. So started checking diameters of my other pens. Turns out the ones closest to that were most comfortable.

[mitto]

What about the MB 146 and MB 149? Or the Jinhao 159?

[Bookman]

For how long? Minutes or hours?

 

Hours. How long precisely? I don't know. I have never taken a break from using either pen because a body part was fatigued or in pain and saying, "Please stop!"

 

Now when I say I don't take a break, that's not to say I don't stop once in a while to think and then continue. But I usually do that without realizing I'm doing it.

 

I don't use a timer, I don't watch my watch. I break when I need to—when I need to refill my pen or water glass or use the restroom or open/close a window or a door. I always use my Collier in eyedropper mode; so when I'm using that pen, as I usually do, and the magic is working and I'm not hydrating properly, I can easily write 3-4 hours without realizing 3-4 hours just went by.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Bookman

[senzen]

The bigger Pelikans come to mind: M600, M800, M1000 (and even better, ending in 5: rhodium trim); it's not going to be cheap. I used to grip pens so tight and so wrong I had a painful indentation at the tip of my index finger by the end of high school, so I had to retrain myself: very much worth the effort, no more pain, and I find medium sized, cheaper pens comfortable: M400, Sailor Pro Gear.

[pe2dave]

Similar problem here. It comes with writing with ballpoints my whole life.

 

For me, it seems the diameter of the pen is making the difference. The Snorkel/Esterbrook SJ/LJ seem to be the right diameter for me to ease up (I asked this in another thread and I think they were 11.5mm each). I discovered this accidentally when I noticed those were the two pens I had no cramps with after a long session and learned they were the same diameter. So started checking diameters of my other pens. Turns out the ones closest to that were most comfortable.

Tks... a start. 11.5mm.

The Lamy is (about ) 11mm at the point I'm holding it.

More important (to me) is the fact it is sloping towards the nib at this point? I.e. no grip there?

[rwilsonedn]

Probably not helpful, but the keys to comfortable long writing sessions are in the way you hold the pen (yes, the pressure has to go ...), writing with arm rather than finger or wrist motion, and posture. In my limited experience it has almost nothing to do with the size, shape, or weight of the pen once you have the fundamentals right. And until you deal with the fundamentals, any pen is going to get annoying after a while. Some will just take a longer while than others.

Unfortunately, that means you can't just buy a solution. You will have to change, and that is painful.

ron

[pe2dave]

 

Hours. How long precisely? I don't know. I have never taken a break from using either pen because a body part was fatigued or in pain and saying, "Please stop!"

 

Now when I say I don't take a break, that's not to say I don't stop once in a while to think and then continue. But I usually do that without realizing I'm doing it.

 

I don't use a timer, I don't watch my watch. I break when I need to—when I need to refill my pen or water glass or use the restroom or open/close a window or a door. I always use my Collier in eyedropper mode; so when I'm using that pen, as I usually do, and the magic is working and I'm not hydrating properly, I can easily write 3-4 hours without realizing 3-4 hours just went by.

https://www.thewritingdesk.co.uk/showproduct.php?brand=Edison&range=Collier which points to a 'flare' at the nib /section junction.

Useful.

[pe2dave]

Probably not helpful, but the keys to comfortable long writing sessions are in the way you hold the pen (yes, the pressure has to go ...), writing with arm rather than finger or wrist motion, and posture. In my limited experience it has almost nothing to do with the size, shape, or weight of the pen once you have the fundamentals right. And until you deal with the fundamentals, any pen is going to get annoying after a while. Some will just take a longer while than others.

Unfortunately, that means you can't just buy a solution. You will have to change, and that is painful.

ron

Tks Ron. I'm happy with the setup. Just the tool.

[pe2dave]

The bigger Pelikans come to mind: M600, M800, M1000 (and even better, ending in 5: rhodium trim); it's not going to be cheap. I used to grip pens so tight and so wrong I had a painful indentation at the tip of my index finger by the end of high school, so I had to retrain myself: very much worth the effort, no more pain, and I find medium sized, cheaper pens comfortable: M400, Sailor Pro Gear.

I have an M400, discarded as too broad at (their defn) F.

For me, too broad. the section (for me) too narrow.

The distance (nib tip to section) too small.

Tks ..

[LuckyKate]

The Pelikan 600 can't be beat for serious writing. It is light, just thick enough and well-balanced whether posted or not. The Montblanc 146 is also very good, a bit heavier than the 600, but to me better balanced than the Pelikan 800 which tires my hands fast.. I also like how plain the 600 and 146 pens are, so their beauty doesn't distract me in any way from writing. My Auroras are also great for serious writing, very comfortable, but just a little too pretty for when I need to focus on the task at hand.

[eharriett]

Probably not helpful, but the keys to comfortable long writing sessions are in the way you hold the pen (yes, the pressure has to go ...), writing with arm rather than finger or wrist motion, and posture. In my limited experience it has almost nothing to do with the size, shape, or weight of the pen once you have the fundamentals right. And until you deal with the fundamentals, any pen is going to get annoying after a while. Some will just take a longer while than others.

Unfortunately, that means you can't just buy a solution. You will have to change, and that is painful.

ron

 

This is exactly what I experienced. I had all those problems too. I still have an issue I can't get my arm to write instead of a wrist (can't even find a YouTube vid on how to fix that). But Ron is right, the rest of those I had to consciously work to get rid of. The last little bit came when I took a look at the pen I was writing with. Those are all habits from poor learning how to hold a writing implement (or no training at all, depending on your age). Any habit is tough to break.

[Bobby Check]

You are going to have to be honest with yourself about the size of your hand and the impact of the balance of the pen.

You need to explore the difference between posted and unposted.

For me a pen that is posted has better balance if it is not too long. And unposted pen is not quite long enough to balance the pen property for extended writing in my opinion.

If you are living in Ohio you are not far from several pen shows and perhaps going to one of those and trying out a number of pens may be of assistance.

I am a male and use a size 10 glove. I find using a Pilot 243 or 242 fits my hand quite nicely. Also, you might explore a Parker 51. Every pen has its own needs and as an example I would strongly recommend rinsing out your Parker 51 now and then to keep it running well.

Too big a grip will tire your hand in my opinion. If you insist on clenching your fingers while writing, you may wish to check out a Sensa pen with a squishy grip area. These fountain pens were never fully appreciated by the market and are not expensive.

I strongly recommend that you avoid pens with metal grip areas as they are hard on people like myself who hold their pen too tight.

Once you find a pen that fits your hand and is comfortable, then you should relax your hand a bit and allow the weight of the pen to do the writing. With time, you will find this to be of assistance.

As an example, there are days when I have to write 80 pages of notes.

I would also recommend paying close attention to the nib on your pen. The “heavier” your hand, the wider the nib should be. You may want to test a medium nib first.

Try avoiding a really cheap pen and instead invest in a pen that is a little more valuable and hopefully of greater quality. If money is a real concern, then pick up a vintage Parker 45. Great pen, and that pen got me through law school.

Best of luck,

Bobby

[ac12]

For LONG writing, up to 3 hours, including breaks:

• Pen
  • It is all about fitting the pen to YOUR hand, so these items are specific to ME.
  • Light. About 15 grams, but no more than 20 grams.
    I will NOT use a pen that weights more than 30 grams for any extended writing, beyond a page.
    Holding a heavy pen for a LONG period of time is tiring on the hand; 20 minutes is short, 2-3 HOURS is LONG.
  • Balanced. Desk pens are my favorite here. Some pens with heavy caps, I will use un-posted so that they balance better.
  • Thin, I prefer my pens about 10-11mm in diameter.
    • Examples, the MB-146 and Pelikan M600 that Kate mentioned above, are too FAT for MY hand. So is the Lamy-2000 a FAT pen. They are short time pens, not one that I would use for extended writing sessions. In fact, my Lamy 2000 has be relegated to my collection, never to be inked again.
  • I like a SMOOTH writing pen. I do NOT like feedback/scratchiness of any kind coming back up the pen.
• LIGHTEN up on the grip.
  • A TIGHT grip will lead to hand cramps.
  • You cannot move your hand/arm smoothly with a TIGHT grip, as your muscles are tensed.
• Arm writing
  • The larger arm muscles have more endurance than the smaller finger muscles.
    So arm writing will be less tiring than finger writing.
  • WARNING, I converted from finger writing to arm writing. It took me THREE months of daily 1-2 hour practice to get my arm used to writing, and before it became natural to write with my arm. Then another 3 months to get my handwriting neat. So converting can be done, but may take a LONG time. This was MY experience, some people will convert faster, and some longer.
• Posture and position
  • Arm writing also requires good posture and proper desk-to-chair height, so that your arm can move freely.
  • Just because you are happy with your setup does not mean that it is proper and conducive to LONG writing sessions.
  • My writing chair height is higher than my normal desk/kitchen table chair height. This is to raise my arm position above the desk, so my arm can move freely.
• Oily/sweaty hand
  • If your fingers is oily or sweaty, you need to wipe it dry. A tight grip with oily fingers will just have your fingers sliding to the tip. Been there, know the problem.
  • Or use a pen with a textured or rubber grip for your fingers.

The Parker 45 that Bobby mentioned was the pen I used in college. But the tapered section, my sweaty/oily fingers, and a TIGHT grip, meant my fingers would constantly slide down to the nib. I had to use a file and sandpaper on the pen to roughen the section so that my fingers would not slide on it.

Fast forward to today, with a light grip, and I use a P45 just fine without the file and sandpaper scratching up the pen.

Edited August 8, 2017 by ac12

[sandy101]

Try fixing the grip 1st. I suspect the Lamy is too smooth because you are puttin gmore weight on the nib, causing it to slip. In addition, the ink type is important with the Lamy 2K. I get lot sof different line variation with different inks. You can use the ears of the nib holder to help you stabilise the pen.

 

Other pens you could try is the Parker 45 - its smaller and the plastic grip is more forgiving. A pen with a wider grip - such as the MB146 may also help, but that won't do your bank balance much good - try before you buy.