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Japanese Inks Vs European Inks

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#1 fjoly79ink

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 15:27

hi all: I have used Iroshizuku inks and Waterman inks in my ST Dupont Palladium pen.  I love that pen, very high quality, smooth writing.  It seems that the Iroshizuku inks - which I love using!!! - are much wetter than the Waterman inks; for that matter, I might try Montblanc inks.

 

I suspect (I don't own a Japanese pen, Pilot, Sailor or other) that Japanese inks might be better suited for Japanese fountain pens than for European fountain pens... given the fineness of the Japanese nibs.

 

Is this a false assumption?  Anybody out there have another opinion?

​Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts.

 

François



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#2 ENewton

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 16:03

It seems likely that Japanese inks are manufactured with Japanese pens in mind, but I actually like them better in my Waterman pens than in my Japanese pens!

 

I have only one Montblanc ink, Lavender Purple, and it does shine in a wetter pen.  

 

I hope you will get some replies from people familiar with the ST Dupont Palladium.  



#3 fjoly79ink

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 16:05

thank you ENewton, this is helpful.

François



#4 Mech-for-i

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 07:49

I have use quite a lot of Japanese as well as European ink in all kind of pens and I have not noted any real or significant advantage about any of them used in say any particular pen from particular country or even mfr. A pen might be dry or wet and a nib can be watery or constrainted and they would work with onl that likewise paired well be it Japanese, European or wherever

#5 fjoly79ink

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 05:04

I have use quite a lot of Japanese as well as European ink in all kind of pens and I have not noted any real or significant advantage about any of them used in say any particular pen from particular country or even mfr. A pen might be dry or wet and a nib can be watery or constrainted and they would work with onl that likewise paired well be it Japanese, European or wherever

 

thank you Mech-for-I, Do you always use the same type of nib (fine, medium) or do you vary?  



#6 Old Salt

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Posted 03 August 2017 - 19:30

I love Sailor inks. They're nicely saturated and dry quickly on the page. In my Sailor pens, I only use Sailor inks. Just no reason to change. Iroshizuku inks seem to work in virtually any converter / cartridge filler as well as piston fillers. Aurora Blue-Black is my new favorite blue black. I was surprised at how easily it cleans up, especially in sac fillers. De Atramentis has some wonderfully saturated blues. De Atramentis Steel blue is one of the wettest, free flowing inks I've used.

I've tried many Montblanc Inks. Tried to like them, but have had mixed results. Since I favor blues and Blue-Blacks, my experience is somewhat limited to those colors. I found Midnight blue to be a dry writer in my pens. Additionally it dries to more of a black-blue. Royal Blue is a color favored by many. I've gone back to it many times with different pens. For my taste, I've had less than stellar results. Finally tried Visconti Blue in my 149 and 146's. It was love at first sight for my pens. Montblanc JFK Navy Blue in my experience is a most well behaved, free flowing, dark blue, that is easily cleaned up with just water. Pretty hard to find now though. After my experience with Montblanc pulling back the limited edition JFK I've steered away from some of the more interesting limited edition blues. I don't understand when you have a popular ink like JFK Navy, why not keep it in production. Unlike pens, these Limited edition inks ultimately just end up ticking me off when supply arbitrarily dries up. There are usually similar colors out there from other manufacturers.

I steer away from overly saturated, and permanent inks that require more and frequent clean up. Beyond that, try to match the ink to what the pen and nib want. Pens are like people. Even those that look alike, have their own unique likes and dislikes in terms of inks. Buying a bunch of sample ink vials is invaluable here.

When it comes to Vintage and latex sac fillers, I limit those pens to Aurora and Waterman.

Whewww...kind of the long way around the barn..lol...when I started writing this, I didn't realize how difficult it would be to answer what appeared a simple question. there are just so many variables when it comes to pen and inks. The more pens you have, the quicker your ink inventory expands. There's lots more, but I've given you the highlights of my experience.
Hope it helps.

#7 fjoly79ink

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Posted 03 August 2017 - 19:34

I love Sailor inks. They're nicely saturated and dry quickly on the page. In my Sailor pens, I only use Sailor inks. Just no reason to change. Iroshizuku inks seem to work in virtually any converter / cartridge filler as well as piston fillers. Aurora Blue-Black is my new favorite blue black. I was surprised at how easily it cleans up, especially in sac fillers. De Atramentis has some wonderfully saturated blues. De Atramentis Steel blue is one of the wettest, free flowing inks I've used.

I've tried many Montblanc Inks. Tried to like them, but have had mixed results. Since I favor blues and Blue-Blacks, my experience is somewhat limited to those colors. I found Midnight blue to be a dry writer in my pens. Additionally it dries to more of a black-blue. Royal Blue is a color favored by many. I've gone back to it many times with different pens. For my taste, I've had less than stellar results. Finally tried Visconti Blue in my 149 and 146's. It was love at first sight for my pens. Montblanc JFK Navy Blue in my experience is a most well behaved, free flowing, dark blue, that is easily cleaned up with just water. Pretty hard to find now though. After my experience with Montblanc pulling back the limited edition JFK I've steered away from some of the more interesting limited edition blues. I don't understand when you have a popular ink like JFK Navy, why not keep it in production. Unlike pens, these Limited edition inks ultimately just end up ticking me off when supply arbitrarily dries up. There are usually similar colors out there from other manufacturers.

I steer away from overly saturated, and permanent inks that require more and frequent clean up. Beyond that, try to match the ink to what the pen and nib want. Pens are like people. Even those that look alike, have their own unique likes and dislikes in terms of inks. Buying a bunch of sample ink vials is invaluable here.

When it comes to Vintage and latex sac fillers, I limit those pens to Aurora and Waterman.

Whewww...kind of the long way around the barn..lol...when I started writing this, I didn't realize how difficult it would be to answer what appeared a simple question. there are just so many variables when it comes to pen and inks. There's lots more, but I've given you the highlights of my experience.
Hope it helps.

 

lol - long-winded is an easy way to describe how I write and talk...  thanks for the shared experience, nicely described and yes it helps a lot!

Francois



#8 Old Salt

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Posted 03 August 2017 - 19:46

😎

#9 KKay

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 06:05

I use both Japanese and European inks in both types of pens.  It really doesn't seem to matter whether you use a Japanese or European pen.  Some ink doesn't do as well in certain pen combos, but it is usually a matter of wetness or being dry.  I am not talking about pens with sacs though.  I would limit which inks would go in those pens for sure.  Oh there is one Sailor pen that you must use Sailor ink in or it could mess up the nib.  I can't remember the name of it.  I am sure somebody knows which one I'm talking about.

hi all: I have used Iroshizuku inks and Waterman inks in my ST Dupont Palladium pen.  I love that pen, very high quality, smooth writing.  It seems that the Iroshizuku inks - which I love using!!! - are much wetter than the Waterman inks; for that matter, I might try Montblanc inks.

 

I suspect (I don't own a Japanese pen, Pilot, Sailor or other) that Japanese inks might be better suited for Japanese fountain pens than for European fountain pens... given the fineness of the Japanese nibs.

 

Is this a false assumption?  Anybody out there have another opinion?

​Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts.

 

François



#10 Chrissy

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 06:54

I use several different ink brands and generally find most Japanese inks to be wetter and more saturated compared with say Pelikan standard inks which can feel dryer, or J.Herbin standard inks which can look less saturated.

 

Yes it sometimes follows that finer Japanese nibs/feeds suit wetter Japanese inks.

 

Some notable pen dealers, who are acknowledged experts in the field, only recommend 'non-boutique' type inks, especially for vintage pens that have rubber sacs. These would include ink brands like Waterman and Sheaffer. They are considered as 'safe' inks in any pen brand.

 

Your S.T. Dupont is a European made C/C pen so you could use any ink in it. There are plenty more European inks that would fit the bill. These include Montblanc, Monteverde, Diamine, R&K

 

If you want it to write wetter then Japanese inks are also fine.

 

I suggest you try out different inks until you find the right writing experience for you in your pen on your regular paper.  :)



#11 fjoly79ink

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 12:10

These are very valuable tips, Chrissy, I appreciate it!

Francois



#12 fjoly79ink

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 12:16

I use both Japanese and European inks in both types of pens.  It really doesn't seem to matter whether you use a Japanese or European pen.  Some ink doesn't do as well in certain pen combos, but it is usually a matter of wetness or being dry.  I am not talking about pens with sacs though.  I would limit which inks would go in those pens for sure.  Oh there is one Sailor pen that you must use Sailor ink in or it could mess up the nib.  I can't remember the name of it.  I am sure somebody knows which one I'm talking about.

 

KKay: thank you for this. Regarding the Sailor pen that you must use Sailor ink in or it could mess up the nib, ​aren't most of the higher pen manufacturers suggesting to use their own branded-inks only?  Except for certain brands (maybe some Noodlers) I am not sure that it's scientifically justified?



#13 KellyMcJ

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 12:39

 

KKay: thank you for this. Regarding the Sailor pen that you must use Sailor ink in or it could mess up the nib, ​aren't most of the higher pen manufacturers suggesting to use their own branded-inks only?  Except for certain brands (maybe some Noodlers) I am not sure that it's scientifically justified?

 

This was my thought as well. I know that Japanese inks are known to have a higher pH than others, and perhaps the nib plating doesn't like the acidity of other inks. Of course, nib plating coming off is a thing that happens to all brands, some more than others. It's a cosmetic defect only, albeit an upsetting one.



#14 fjoly79ink

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 12:43

I used to have a Sailor 1911 which got stolen... I miss that pen. 



#15 KKay

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 16:12

It is the black ion plated nib which must use Sailor ink.  I know this would be the Imperial Black, but that type of nib may be on other Sailor pens as well. 



#16 fjoly79ink

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 16:14

that makes sense: Black on black.



#17 Chrissy

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 16:17

I heard someone else say that their black nib had lost it's coating. I think it was a Lamy nib though



#18 Algester

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 07:57

Nib plating being chipped off are only knows with Delta and Sailor the PVD? and the Titanium plating process probably doesnt really adhere well to wet environments





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