Question: Required To Contact Customer Service Before A Negative Review?

[writerstephen]

So this isn't precisely a review, more a question about reviews. Apologies if not in the right spot.

 

Recently I purchased a Grifos pen through Massdrop--A Nyloe with a silver guilloche top, burgundy barrel, and broad stainless steel nib. About $75. It was a mixed bag when it came. I mostly liked the way the pen looked (except for the exaggeratedly flared center band), but it came with a defective converter that wouldn't draw ink and a VERY generic nib. I posted a mixed, 3 stars out of 5 review on Massdrop's discussion page. Massdrop immediately reached out and offered me a full refund to return the pen OR a $10 refund and $10 future-purchase credit and I get to keep the pen (they didn't have any converters lying around). I chose the latter.

 

Fast forward a couple weeks; the Grifos isn't in my EDC but I use it fairly regularly; it's inked with Emerald de Chivor and is pretty reliable. Until the day I pick it up, uncap it, and get ink ALL over my fingers. It had leaked in the cap. Okay, maybe E de C is too intense for this pen; I flush it out and re-ink with Oster Fire & Ice. Two days later--BAM, ink all over my fingers again.

 

Soooo, I post an addendum to my review on Massdrop saying basically, this pen is now out of my EDC, it leaks too often and much to be an effective writing instrument, and at this price point, buyer should beware.

 

Almost instantly I get an angry response (what I read as angry, anyway) from Stubnib of Grifos. He's Italian, and English is definitely not his first language, but he knows enough to write long diatribes about how I am trigger happy and basically have no right to post anything negative unless I try to resolve the issue via customer service first. We go back and forth and it's not pretty, I end up telling him he's a bully and him saying many mean things to me.

 

So anyway, my question is, is it verboten to post a negative review (or a balanced review with negative points) without going to a company's customer service first to get the problem resolved?

 

You can see the whole string here, if you wish:

 

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/grifos-nyloe-fountain-pen/talk

 

 

[LizEF]

So anyway, my question is, is it verboten to post a negative review (or a balanced review with negative points) without going to a company's customer service first to get the problem resolved?

 

No. If your review is a factual retelling of what happened, I see no reason not to post the experience. If the company doesn't want negative reviews they should make a reliable product that doesn't need customer service right out of the gate.

 

And if they want to impress people, they should react to a negative review by saying it's an anomaly and they'll happily replace the item at no cost (not even shipping) to the buyer, and then do so, and make sure the replacement is a good one, and then they'll get happy customers and people will believe that it really was an anomaly and that this is a great company who take care of their customers.

 

Of course, if their product really is garbage, then their garbage customer disservice department is already perfect... (I have little sympathy for companies who are jerks.)

[Erik Dalton]

From my experience, it's just good manners to give the seller an opportunity to fix a problem before blasting away with a negative review. You did that with Massdrop. They chose not to go to Grifos and see if you could be made whole. Your agreement was with Massdrop, and you had every right to voice your dissatisfaction with a Massdrop product.

One never knows where Massdrop is getting their pens from. Many pelikan offerings do not include nib exchange here in the US. So where did the pens come from? Why won't Pelikan Warranty them?

I've had an order for a Parsons Essential With Massdrop take months. It's not Mr Pen's fault. I've ordered direct from them and had my pen in less than a week from England to Delaware. That's the way I wrote my review, and urged others to order directly from Mr Pen. I received a lot of positive responses and no negative.

If Grifos has a problem with your review, they need to take it up with Massdrop and their poor customer service representing Grifos Products.

You did nothing wrong. Why isn't Massdrop going back to Grifos to get you a new pen? You just got caught in the middle between lazy/indifferent Massdrop Employees, and a horse's behind at Grifos.

[Chrissy]

From my experience, it's just good manners to give the seller an opportunity to fix a problem before blasting away with a negative review. You did that with Massdrop. They chose not to go to Grifos and see if you could be made whole. Your agreement was with Massdrop, and you had every right to voice your dissatisfaction with a Massdrop product.

One never knows where Massdrop is getting their pens from. Many pelikan offerings do not include nib exchange here in the US. So where did the pens come from? Why won't Pelikan Warranty them?

I've had an order for a Parsons Essential With Massdrop take months. It's not Mr Pen's fault. I've ordered direct from them and had my pen in less than a week from England to Delaware. That's the way I wrote my review, and urged others to order directly from Mr Pen. I received a lot of positive responses and no negative.

If Grifos has a problem with your review, they need to take it up with Massdrop and their poor customer service representing Grifos Products.

You did nothing wrong. Why isn't Massdrop going back to Grifos to get you a new pen? You just got caught in the middle between lazy/indifferent Massdrop Employees, and a horse's behind at Grifos.

 

+1 for this. Your contract was with Massdrop and you tried to resolve it with them before leaving a negative review. That's exactly what you should have done.

[writerstephen]

Thanks for all the responses guys!

 

To be clear, I posted a mixed review before speaking with massdrop directly on the first issue (the defective converter). Massdrop then reached out to me with the partial refund. The leaky cap came later, and I posted the negative addendum.

[sketchstack]

They might have shown some contrition and, publicly on that forum, offered to handle your refund/repair/whatever. Then as a potential customer I would have thought "Hey, they were big to do that, and therefore they'll take care of me if I buy something from them!"

 

Sadly it didn't play out like that.

[praxim]

I think all three parties could have behaved in more effective ways.

 

A review which states problems before giving the seller time to rectify (note the "mixed review" before contacting Massdrop) is an exaggeration pretty much by definition, because it will be interpreted by an audience as a more widespread problem than it necessarily is.

 

I can not comment much on Massdrop in that I know nothing of them, except that it appears their response was not reasonable.

 

Grifos had a brilliant marketing opportunity as sketchstack said, and blew it. They could have answered more effectively yet without opening themselves to any and all claims.

 

 

A view from a distance.

[jar]

Stubnib is even a member here and from personal experience will go beyond just reasonable to fix even minor issues. There is no rule against posting negative comments before contacting customer service but it certainly is a really stupid thing to do. You blew a great opportunity to turn a poor experience into a great experience but hopefully now you will politely work with the good folk at Grifos to actually determine what the problem is and solve the issue.

[PaganArcher]

Having read the exchange on Massdrop, I wouldn't give Grifos the time of day. You reached out in the proper fashion to the entity with which you did business, respectfully expressed your issues with the product, both pre- and post- Massdrop, and then subjected to the unsolicited, condescending ramblings of what I can only describe as a horse's kiester.

[Aditkamath26]

Here is a 15 year old's opinion. Hope it is respected. In a perfect world the pen should have been tested before shipping and must have been perfect. As you did recieve a defective one, you did your part right by contacting the seller as it was a leaky converter although contacting Griffos might have been right as well (especially in the case of the cap). Anyway the tone of Maurizio was a bit rude I must admit but I would have given them a chance.

Regards,

Adit

[Sasha Royale]

You have no obligation to contact ANYONE . Tell the truth in your review, including the seller's attitude. If you think he is a bully, say so ! Don't buy fountain pens that leak.

[Ron Z]

You have no obligation to contact ANYONE . Tell the truth in your review, including the seller's attitude. If you think he is a bully, say so ! Don't buy fountain pens that leak.

 

I find the concept of grace to be distinctly lacking in today's culture. It is something that we hope for or expect from others when we screw up (not if, when), but often don't or won't give.

 

Obligation to contact someone, perhaps not. Courteous thing to do? Yes. "Stuff" happens despite one's best efforts. I know of no person or product that is perfect. We can be as careful as possible, and something can and may go wrong. As I posted elsewhere today, that is why warranties exist. It protects both buyer by insuring recourse, and seller by outlining what is covered and what the vendor will do to rectify a problem, to avoid sometimes unrealistic expectations. Note that in many if not most cases the warranty is with the manufacturer, not the retailer. Sometimes the manufacturer says not to return the item to the store, but to contact them directly since they offered the warranty. The store/retailer's responsibility ends after the stated window to return an item. By Massdrop offering, and the buyer accepting, a partial refund (defect acknowledged, recourse accepted) the matter with Massdrop was closed.

 

Giving the vendor an opportunity to correct the problem before perhaps permanently damaging their reputation with a post on line is a good thing. If they do not respond and work with you, then you have reasonable grounds to say that they didn't, and to explain what happened. OTOH, not giving them a chance to correct a problem before you post negative comments may give other vendors who read your post pause before transacting business with you.

 

I am not a member of Massdrop, so can not read the exchange. But from responses here, it appears that the maker's response was lacking. I may make some rather acerbic comments about someone to myself or my wife, but never to the client. It is rarely helpful, and you usually end up looking like a toad.

[rwilsonedn]

I don't think we are going to see much agreement between vendors and customers on this one.

From the vendor's point of view, no one is perfect, and it would be far more convenient if when a customer found a problem, it was kept secret until it was resolved, and maybe even afterwards. That way all anyone would ever hear about would be the great product and great service. (Ask Tesla about non-disclosure clauses in new-car warranties, for example.)

From a customer's point of view, if someone received an unusable pen, I'd like to hear about it. I'd also like to hear about the resolution--how understanding, prompt, and effective the vendor was in fixing the problem. Then I could decide for myself whether the possibility of a defect and the likelihood of a fix outweigh my interest in the pen.

It sounds like the latter is exactly what happened in this case. The buyer accurately documented the problem with the pen, and then accurately (and tragically, from one vendor's point of view) documented the vendors' responses. I don't see the OP as being anything but candid and helpful to other readers. Perhaps he could have been more courteous about the problem. But I see no responsibility to publicly pretend it didn't happen until after both the vendor and the retailer had an opportunity to fix it. What I do see is that the original vendor had two opportunities to make the OP happy, ignored one, and chose to use the other to have a confrontation.

ron

[writerstephen]

I'd like to thank all the members here who responded (even those who didn't agree with me!) and acknowledge my culpability on this topic.

 

I DEFINITELY should have contacted Grifos before posting the second review. Truthfully, it just didn't occur to me. I was annoyed with the quality of the pen, and I wasn't thinking "I should get this replaced"; I was thinking "Jeez, I wouldn't buy this again and I feel like I should warn my fellow consumer."

 

Obviously, I should have taken a moment to collect my thoughts and contacted Grifos before doing so. I still could have posted about the issue afterwards, and included their response (whatever it might have been).

 

HOWEVER, i do not feel that Maurizio's response to me was appropriate, and I wouldn't change my response to HIS response.

 

Thanks again everyone.

[KellyMcJ]

Here's my take on this:

 

No, you're not required to contact customer service before leaving a negative review. It's a courtesy, and if you want a refund/replacement you have to, obviously. Otherwise, no. The purpose of a review is to let others know about your experience with the product or vendor, nothing more. It's not for communication with vendors.

 

That said: Most people expect occasional duds from manufacturers. It happens, even the most conscientious maker will occasionally have a material defect etc. Reasonable people know this; one bad review won't sway most people and certainly won't ruin a makers reputation. HOWEVER- seeing a maker or one of their employees publicly berate someone for leaving a bad review certainly will!!!! Your leaky converter wouldn't be the reason I wouldn't buy from this maker; his response to you would be. Ignoring you completely (since you didn't reach out to him directly) or offering assistance (I actually see some companies employ customer service people specifically to respond to negative Amazon reviews and offer assistance) would have been good ways to handle it, not attacking you.

[TassoBarbasso]

The matter is simple: you bought an expensive pen. You have all the right to expect it will perform flawlessly. You have all the right to think that "out-of-the-boxness" is a BASIC requirement to consider yourself a satisfied customer. The seller should guarantee that your pen is not faulty, and if it is, take the criticism and shut up.

 

Ultimately, reviews are not for you, nor for the seller: they are for other buyers. As a potential buyer, I want to know if I might have to go through a bothersome customer care process and if my pen might be faulty. I thank you for that.

 

Someone previously suggested that you should have contacted the manifacturer and turned your bad experience into a positive one thanks to his supposed awesomeness. To that I say two things:

 

1) given his behaviour in that thread on Massdrop, I can hardly imagine how any interaction with him might be pleasant!

 

2) no process of repair and customer service is pleasant.

 

3) even then, you still have not only a right, but even a DUTY to tell other potential buyers that these pens suck.

 

I had a similar situation with a Montegrappa: they did all they could to fix it, but I still saw it as my duty to warn others about their product's shortcomings.

 

This is the only indistry where customers feel deferential towards companies. If they fail, everybody needs to know, and we should all start expecting PERFECTION when we spend so much money on pens!

[sketchstack]

...

Ultimately, reviews are not for you, nor for the seller: they are for other buyers. As a potential buyer, I want to know if I might have to go through a bothersome customer care process and if my pen might be faulty. I thank you for that.

...

 

This is a great point, but when done responsibly.

 

First off, everything I'm writing beyond this point are my general thoughts --not implications to the author of this thread, who I feel conducted themselves reasonably.

 

Speaking broader, beyond the example in this thread, you only have to look at local restaurant reviews to witness the unrealistic expectations that people have when buying a $3 pastry (or whatever). So sometimes customers complain publicly in order to quell their bruised ego, especially if they feel "slighted" by someone in the service industry. Their Yelp rants aren't altruistic in the least.

 

Further, the internet is a giant rumor mill. Thread comments last forever and get artificially amplified when referred to over and over.

 

Thus I tend to hold my tongue regarding companies and vendors unless I really think a negative experience was not isolated. I realize people have "off" days and we're all human. And even if something breaks or malfunctions, I greatly consider the tone of the follow up response.

 

If there were truly 110% perfect vendors/manufacturers out there then we'd all have heard of them by now. But even the best slip up now and again, and if they're cool about it then I have no problem wiping the slate clean, as it were. No need to type up a diatribe.

 

(Exceptions to this rule are when I detect outright dishonesty or fraud or funny business regarding money ...even then I make sure I have the whole story before reacting.)

Edited July 28, 2017 by sketchstack

[TassoBarbasso]

This is a great point, but when done responsibly.

 

First off, everything I'm writing beyond this point are my general thoughts --not implications to the author of this thread, who I feel conducted themselves reasonably.

 

Speaking broader, beyond the example in this thread, you only have to look at local restaurant reviews to witness the unrealistic expectations that people have when buying a $3 pastry (or whatever). So sometimes customers complain publicly in order to quell their bruised ego, especially if they feel "slighted" by someone in the service industry. Their Yelp rants aren't altruistic in the least.

 

Further, the internet is a giant rumor mill. Thread comments last forever and get artificially amplified when referred to over and over.

 

Thus I tend to hold my tongue regarding companies and vendors unless I really think a negative experience was not isolated. I realize people have "off" days and we're all human. And even if something breaks or malfunctions, I greatly consider the tone of the follow up response.

 

If there were truly 110% perfect vendors/manufacturers out there then we'd all have heard of them by now. But even the best slip up now and again, and if they're cool about it then I have no problem wiping the slate clean, as it were. No need to type up a diatribe.

 

(Exceptions to this rule are when I detect outright dishonesty or fraud or funny business regarding money ...even then I make sure I have the whole story before reacting.)

Excellent points. It has to be a reasonable comment. If someone buys a €3 lunch he has no right to complain it's not super-delicious. He does however have the right to give a 1-star rating if he gest food poisoning after that in the case of the OP, he basicall got the FP equivalent of diarrhea... And from a fancy restaurant

[writerstephen]

... in the case of the OP, he basicall got the FP equivalent of diarrhea... And from a fancy restaurant

Hahaha! Best line in the thread! I did indeed.

[Honeybadgers]

Absolutely not your fault. If the seller/vendor cared about the product he sold, he'd have reached out to you trying to make it right, not trying to attack you.

 

Thanks for the heads up. I'm never going to buy one of their products now.

 

I frequent a great little cafe near my quarters. The guy has like 500 reviews, 4-5 stars regularly. But occasionally he gets 1 star reviews. Oftentimes you can tell an idiot just in how they write. They didn't have fast enough wifi... at a restaurant... One star. The chairs were too hard. One star. His menu isn't 100% vegan (though he does have several options.) One star.

 

Nonsense like that is easy to pick out, and that's the type of bad review you just have to ignore. But a well explained grievance with a product, service or business always warrants an attempt to resolve the issue.

 

I bought some wire clips for my speaker wire routing. They didn't work very well, so I left a 3 star review explaining exactly why.

 

The vendor contacted me very quickly, offering to not only send me another bag completely free to redo my project, but included some tips for how to make them work better. And they did. So I gave the vendor a 5 star rating and updated my review of the product to 4.

 

Even though his stuff may not be perfect, I'd be happy to buy from him again because that kind of customer service can be just as important as the product or service you sell.

Edited August 9, 2017 by Honeybadgers