What's Your Experience In Hacking Feeds?

[lurcho]

There's some stuff on FPN about increasing flow by cutting feeds, but not that much, and some of it is contradictory.

 

I just wanted to invite people to report what they'd tried, including what failed as well as what worked.

 

Some people say you shouldn't take a knife to plastic feeds, but watch_art, a moderator on this board, an accomplished pen-maker, and, frankly, a brilliant bloke (if you ever email him), has a YouTube video on the subject.

 

Please tell us what you did, and how it turned out.

Edited July 26, 2017 by lurcho

[Frank66]

Feeds are mostly ignored, but are equally important in my mind as the nibs.

 

My experience with altering feeds is that you can easily overdo it. However one can transform a starving nib to a juicy one by altering the feed, and when flexible nibs are concerned, feeds are more important than ever.

 

A FPN thread about feeds is currently under way here: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/325608-adjusting-flow-on-ebonite-feeds/?do=findComment&comment=3889824

Edited July 26, 2017 by Frank66

[the_gasman]

My experience with altering feeds is that you can easily overdo it. However one can transform a starving nib to a juicy one by altering the feed, and when flexible nibs are concerned, feeds are more important than ever.

 

What Frank says.

 

I successfully increased the flow on a broad JoWo #6 nib by using two techniques:

1. incrementally increasing the size of the ink channel by using a craft knife: start conservative as you can always cut more away but you can't put material back.
2. similarly increase the size of the aperture of the ink nipple [unsure about terminology] connecting feed to cartridge/converter using incremental cuts

 

HTH,

David.

[the_gasman]

Addendum: I defer to Frank's excellent advice in this linked thread.

 

I should have read it first, before rushing to post.

 

Cheers,

David.

[Mauricio]

I have never seen the need to modify a feed in a fountain pen to increase ink flow. However, I mainly use high quality vintage fountain pens, which were designed and manufactured for flex purposes, and where made back in the day when the fountain pen industry was huge, when the top pen manufacturers had deep pockets, invested heavily into new technologies, and came out with wonderful innovations and patents on a regular basis. To mention one: The Waterman Pen Company created and patented their revolutionary feed by in the mid 1880s. This single invention was so revolutionary at the time that it set the Waterman company apart from the competition and helped it become the largest pen manufacturer in the world for about 30-40 years.

 

The technique I use to increase ink flow in a fountain pen is to increase the space in between the tines of the nib, slightly spreading them apart with the tip of my fingers. It is doing the complete opposite of crisscrossing the tines of the nib, to reduce ink flow in a pen/nib. No part is modified and these adjustments are reversible, meaning the nib can be put back in its previous configuration. These are the techniques most professional nib repair people have used. Very few of the feed modifications I have seen have been made by professionals who have surgical hands and tremendous knowledge on the subject. And despite professional feed modifications, there are still limitations as to what those modified feeds can do when compared to factory original feeds that were designed and manufactured for certain purposes. No wonder why the Waterman company patented their feed design at the time.

 

The trend I have seen over the last few years is that some folks have a very tiny budget and are not willing to pay the current market value of a high quality vintage fountain pen that was designed and manufactured for flex purposes and not willing to pay for professional restoration. They are lured by cheap gimmicks in the marketplace. They are also lured by do-it-yourself hacks or by any inexpensive proposition, most of which are made by non professional repair people or by folks who in many cases cannot even write their name with a flexible nib.

 

The main concern should be that if you do not know how to professionally do it, increasing the width and/or depth of the ink channels in a feed will increase ink flow at ALL times, meaning that you might no longer be able to get those thin lines with just the small required amount of ink for proper thin line definition. Instead, you will get ink flooding even when attempting to write thin lines, feathering on most papers, etc. This issue will be accentuated when using flexible nibs, which have a wide range of ink demands from the fountain pen bodies, ranging from the bare minimum ink flow for thin lines and when writing very slowly and/or with no pressure applied to the nib, to a significant or massive ink flow when flexing a nib significantly. A poorly made feed modification might also cause the pen to leak ink even when unused. The feed in a fountain pen is a component that regulates the amount of ink coming out of the pen body and also transfers air into the fountain pen body to fill the void left by the ink that came out. I like the "controlled leak" term used by Richard Binder when speaking of how fountain pens work. If you mess with this regulator (the feed) and do not know what you are doing, you will experience undesired leaking and flooding results.

 

My advise: Only take to the bank recommendations made by extremely knowledgeable people on the subject, such as John Mottishaw, Richard Binder, Mike Masuyama, and a few others. These guys really know what they are doing and they will not give bad advise on feed modification and ink flow management.

[Bo Bo Olson]

It's always a joy to read what Mauricio has to say.

 

Before the Ahab, hack the feed, chop off buffering rills/combs.... was seldom as I remember it was extremely seldom anyone posted about hacking and gouging at the feed .... and then those were the type to use huge thick carpet knives, razor blades and Bowie's rated too small for Grizzles.

 

Not having a lot of money to run around buying vintage feeds after butchering them...in most of my pens are vintage....I suggest wet inks....if Waterman is not wet enough ask for the wettest Noodler inks.

 

(Pelikan is a nib and feed designed to use a dry ink.....so if you use a wetter ink in it.....it will be as wet and juicy as you want.....but don't cost $1.00-3.00.....lots of folks with only wet inks complain bitterly about how Wet their Pelikan is and how to dry them up......dry ink helps a lot.) Just like wet ink helps a dry nib.

I have a dry nib....maybe two or three, and I want them that way...or why else should I have a wet ink?

 

I like DA Royal Blue better than what ever Waterman calls it's blue nowadays, in it is wetter, and darker...with a slight 'royal' tinge of purple. You should go to Inky Thoughts and ask what the wettest of all Noodler inks are before hacking away.

 

(It could be the $0.99 Chinese pen would be a good subject for Bowie Surgery....the problem is others start thinking that is normal and whip out the old Viking Battle Ax, to split the nib of their vintage pen.)

 

Back when I was half noobie, I tried running the thinnest of two brass shims down a nib slit....just to see if I could. The pen had no problem. I could, so after two 'runs' quit....nothing changed thankfully.

Since then I've had no problem needing that.

 

What % of used pens have slits too narrow or feeds too clogged up to free up with a 10% ammonia solution and a bit of time?

 

If the pen costs more than postage and it don't work return to seller.........if it's not worth postage hack at it all you want......but please state....it's a dirt cheap brand new pen....so some noobie don't take Gramps Touchdown to task....in it don't gush ink....like he's been told it should....by other noobies.

 

So many beginners start out wanting bold....very wet lines (as Gel pen as they can find) ..........that will change their minds with in a year or two..............how can you use shading ink when your pen has been hacked to flood?

 

How wet is the Ink you are using?

If Noodlers and it's still too dry for you...... ....you have tried spreading the tines.....(do not suggest doing that with an inlaid nib. )

 

I got a 9" Marine Kabar I can lend you. It's my back up knife for hunting Grizzlies. My main bear knife is a 9" Buck 124.

 

Hacking away combs will also make the pen write wetter.........Of course that's harder to hid, when one sells a too wet pen.

 

 

I do know how to gently spread the tines ....having read about it a lot....and..movement on thought of...or thought it might have moved was enough....I didn't need that satisfying, flexing of all the muscles ...'knowing' that nib was lots wider now.

 

Humm... A wider nib does wonders for wetness if one plans ahead.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[ReadyFireAim]

There's some stuff on FPN about increasing flow by cutting feeds, but not that much, and some of it is contradictory..

 

There are a bunch of ways to do it but it can depend on what pen you have.

 

What are you working on?

 

I generally save the irreversible modifications for last.

A good cleaning does the trick many times or pulling the nib/feed out of the holder/section 1/32" can do wonders.

I have one pen that likes spit

Edited July 27, 2017 by Bordeaux146

[lurcho]

Hiya, guys. Thanks for your input.

 

It doesn't matter if I wreck my feeds, because they're Jinhaos and spare ones cost about 13 pence (the equivalent of a dime). I'm about to buy spare JoWo feeds, and they're about 50 pence each - less than forty US cents.

 

So you see, even I get nowhere and learn nothing, it would be very difficult for me to waste significant money on my experiments.

 

Tine-gapping I know about.

 

So far, I am making progress. it's just difficult to produce consistent results!

[Mech-for-i]

I believe failure do come in because most of us are not accustomed to work with such fine scale. But I've had plenty of success with hacking feeds. Granted I am myself a veteran scale modeler who work on 1/72 scale and had all the tools to work the plastic ( or whatever material ) on those minute parts which are far finer than a fountain pen feed. So I am well versed and well equipped for that. I think the keyword to hacking feeds is moderation and leaning. You do not want to over do it and you need to be aware that before fitting the hacked feeds its a crucial step to thoroughly clean it free of any residue coming out from the job done on it. A small ultrasonic bath cleaner helps. Scale model knife / scalpel usually can do the job better than a simple cutter.

 

That said, I seldom find the need to hack feeds whether they are old or new. I hack them mostly when I am out to hack a pen , say trying to fit a fude nib or calligrapher's dip pen nib onto them which of course require a different kind of ink flow.

[Chrissy]

I have only ever used a brass shim on one of my feed channels once, and that was because I could see it had something in there from new. The pen was starved of ink, so I knew there was something wrong. I felt very nervous about doing anything, but knew I had to remove whatever was in there blocking the channel. It turned out to be a bit of plastic and the pen wrote much better after it was removed.

 

I wouldn't routinely adjust a feed to increase flow.

[Sanne137]

 

That said, I seldom find the need to hack feeds whether they are old or new. I hack them mostly when I am out to hack a pen , say trying to fit a fude nib or calligrapher's dip pen nib onto them which of course require a different kind of ink flow.

 

Could you tell more about your hacks? I'd love to fit a Leonardt principal onto a fountainpen. I tried this yesterday with mixed results. The nib fits perfectly around the feed, but the feed does not go back into the pen all the way. Ink was coming through but not onto the paper. I think some kind of feed modification could help.

 

Do you have experiance with this?

Which calligraphy nibs have you used?

[ReadyFireAim]

Start with post #118

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/324910-experiments-with-flex/page-6

I've had great luck with mine.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Bordeaux146

[FriendAmos]

There's some stuff on FPN about increasing flow by cutting feeds, but not that much, and some of it is contradictory.

 

I just wanted to invite people to report what they'd tried, including what failed as well as what worked.

 

Some people say you shouldn't take a knife to plastic feeds, but watch_art, a moderator on this board, an accomplished pen-maker, and, frankly, a brilliant bloke (if you ever email him), has a YouTube video on the subject.

 

Please tell us what you did, and how it turned out.

 

I have done it several times, and it worked just great in increasing flow. The only thing I'd say is that you do it gradually, testing periodically, especially if you have a B or broader nib. With one such pen I ended with excessive flow and the pen writing much wider than intended.

[ReadyFireAim]

Check this out

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/324817-feed-cutting-what-am-i-doing-wrong/

[markh]

Let me suggest a different approach, at least for jowo/schmidt nibs. You can buy feeds at

 

<http://penkits.biz/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=17&zenid=krimaf853r48hg53i2nkbsbjd4>

 

for $1.25, either for #5 or #6 size.

 

These are double cut feeds, with two channels for ink. I really like them, and find they improve flow on most pens compared with the single cut that seems to come with most pens. I bought about a dozen of each size, and when I have a pen that seems a little slow I replace the feed. A cheap fix, no knife required.

 

The may look slightly different than the feed that came with your pen (or with the replacement nib/feed/holder that you bought.) As to whether they look better or worse that's up to you. Since I don't spend all that much time looking at the feed, it's never been an issue for me.

 

Sorry to say I don't know of an equivalent for Bock nibs.

 

.

[ReadyFireAim]

These are double cut feeds, with two channels for ink.

 

Cool!

I just ordered 2 of each.

 

I'm curious to see how these things work.

[Frank66]

Let me suggest a different approach, at least for jowo/schmidt nibs. You can buy feeds at

 

<http://penkits.biz/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=17&zenid=krimaf853r48hg53i2nkbsbjd4>

 

for $1.25, either for #5 or #6 size.

 

These are double cut feeds, with two channels for ink. I really like them, and find they improve flow on most pens compared with the single cut that seems to come with most pens. I bought about a dozen of each size, and when I have a pen that seems a little slow I replace the feed. A cheap fix, no knife required.

 

The may look slightly different than the feed that came with your pen (or with the replacement nib/feed/holder that you bought.) As to whether they look better or worse that's up to you. Since I don't spend all that much time looking at the feed, it's never been an issue for me.

 

Sorry to say I don't know of an equivalent for Bock nibs.

 

.

 

My Lamy Safari has a feed with 2 grooves, and is a reliable writer. I have always wondered where one can get feeds with 2 or even 3 ink grooves from, markh thanks for sharing.

Edited September 9, 2017 by Frank66

[Mister5]

I have only ever used a brass shim on one of my feed channels once, and that was because I could see it had something in there from new. The pen was starved of ink, so I knew there was something wrong. I felt very nervous about doing anything, but knew I had to remove whatever was in there blocking the channel. It turned out to be a bit of plastic and the pen wrote much better after it was removed.

 

I wouldn't routinely adjust a feed to increase flow.

I have done exactly the same to a dry & skippy Custom Heritage 92 feed. It was my last resort to get the pen writing properly, and it did the trick. It's not something I was particularly eager to do and hope I don't have to again.

[lurcho]

I have done exactly the same to a dry & skippy Custom Heritage 92 feed. It was my last resort to get the pen writing properly, and it did the trick. It's not something I was particularly eager to do and hope I don't have to again.

 

Nice to know someone else has had flow problems with quality Pilots.

 

I don't mean that I'm happy you had to work on your pen, of course. But I was unlucky with a few, including two Custom 74s. Feed-hacking worked remarkably well for me, too, though I also had sharp nibs that took a lot of work.

 

Both nibs were lovely and soft, but I've never forgiven them for their appalling out-of-the-box functionality, mainly because Pilots are held up as paragons in the FP community.

 

They are, in my experience, at least as guilty of poor QC as any maker. I don't subscribe for a minute to the myth that Japanese pens are superior in either engineering excellence or quality checks to European ones.

 

Although, I am a bit drunk.

[dcwaites]

The slot down a nib feed is designed to get ink to move down it via capillary action. This is a complex thing, and widening a slot may not make more ink move down it, if you go too far, the ink may not flow at all.

 

Generally you should be able to slide a 0.002" feeler gauge blade (the thinnest) all the way along the slot, and it should feel the same all the way. If there is any obstruction, it is usually because there is some crud in there, or dried, petrified ink. You can use the gauge blade to clean it out.

 

I have yet to find the feed slot in a pen that needs widening, from my cheapest Jinhaos to my expensive Pilots and Sailors.

 

Generally, if you need more ink to flow from your pen, adjust the gap in the tines. For a wettish pen, you should be able to see a tiny gap ( and it is tiny, about the thickness of the gauge blade above) all the way to the end of the tipping. For a drier pen, or one that exhibits shading, you may want the tipping to just touch.

 

The thing about adjusting the tines on the nib, is that it is reversible (so long as you are careful). You can open or close the tine gap to make the pen wetter or drier. You can't do that with a feed. And if the tine gap is not wide enough, widening the feed slot won't make any difference.