Was There Ever A Time When Q C Was Great?

[lurcho]

I was just now watching Matt Armstrong's (The Pen Habit) YouTube video on the Pelikan M1000. He was moaning about the way it skipped, and its baby's-bottom problem, its excessive wetness, and the wildly inconsistent writing size of Pelikan nibs.

 

I think he's right. Even a medium nib-unit I ordered from Mottishaw six years ago was a terrible writer.

 

In the comments for Matt's video, I mentioned how Ikonpen, nearly twenty years ago, had held up the M800 as the nonpareil, the standard against which to measure all others. I'm lucky enough to have a M800 from around the millennium, bought from Mottishaw, and adjusted perfectly by Binder.

 

So how long ago was it that fountain pens could be bought working well?

 

Was it ever the case?

[Driften]

I think it depends on the company. Some companies seem to have better QC then others. I have never had any issues related to Franklin-Christoph or heard of any QC issues with them. What about other smaller makers like Edison? I expect they also have sterling QC.

[tamiya]

So how long ago was it that fountain pens could be bought working well?

 

Was it ever the case?

Are you referring to pens untouched from factory or pens that have been professionally sold?

 

BiTD we only bought pens in person, sometimes only on an annual trip into The Big Smoke. Chose what you liked from their stock, they'd let you try out see if it suited you etc etc. If it didn't feel good you'd try another. Pens weren't ever cheap, none of today's bargains.

 

Last time I bought a pen in person from a pro pen shop... yep still the same service! However this time I'm watching him like a hawk... after installing my choice of nib he's inked up the pen, done a few test squiggles... nope he not happy, does a but of nib tweeking... squiggle some more... nope, yanks off nib to check figment on feed, reinstall & squiggle again... ah ok, only then he hands it to me to try.

 

Same pen that I've bought from airport duty free, department stores with no service, mailorder, etc etc... yep they all don't write as nice as the pro-fiddled one.

 

But at least I know how to tune them myself now.

Edited July 15, 2017 by tamiya

[Water Ouzel]

So how long ago was it that fountain pens could be bought working well?

 

Was it ever the case?

 

From the very beginning, up to the present. For some fraction of all pens.

 

People talk about how things made in the past had so much higher quality than things made now, ignoring the fact that the rotten stuff made back then has mostly not survived to the present. Same with pens.

[Water Ouzel]

What about other smaller makers like Edison? I expect they also have sterling QC.

My Edison Collier came with a section whose threads didn't quite mate with the barrel. But they made it right.

 

I'd buy another Edison pen in a heartbeat. Well, after my allowance has accumulated a bit longer.

[Bluey]

People talk about how things made in the past had so much higher quality than things made now, ignoring the fact that the rotten stuff made back then has mostly not survived to the present. Same with pens.

I don't think the QC then was any better than now. The QC is probably better now, but I do think that many vintage pens are better writers in the West compared to modern Western pens (not in China though where the standards have massively improved in recent decades)

Edited July 15, 2017 by Bluey

[Noihvo]

[Moonshae]

Perhaps in the past there was more tolerance for things we now see as flaws. People used to writing with dip pens must have thought any FP with tipping glided over paper like a dream, whereas that same pen may make a current FP user recoil in horror at the scratchiness. To me, this suggests an increasing level of base quality, with the bar for "acceptable" being raised ever higher.

[pajaro]

Pens I bought to at least 1990 were great writers right out of the box. The ones I still have are still great writers. Pens I bought later might or might not have worked satisfactorily out of the box, and when I had issues with a pen, as with modern C/C pens that seemed to dry out too fast, I am of the opinion that there might be a design or manufacture flaw that quality control could not remedy.

[ISW_Kaputnik]

I have had pretty good luck with medium range pens from reputable makers working well out of the box, and the only one that was "set up" for me by the seller was a Vanishing Point from Richard Binder back when he still did that. I've bought several pens from eBay or Amazon sellers. I had to tweak the nibs on both Platinum 3776 Centuries, and a Pilot Custom 74, but several other Pilots and a Lamy 2000 were just fine from the start.

 

But yes, that's the luck of the draw. The seller of my Lamy 2000 might have had three lemons and three good ones, and I got one of the good ones.

[jar]

I'd say that today QC is great. Of the hundreds of fountain pens I've bought over the years only two or three needed any work because of manufacturing problems. A few need adjustment to change the nib to something other than its original design but that was not related to any flaws, just my personal desires.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Someone complaining about a 1000 being to wet, is ham fisted and never had a semi-flex nib; which a 1000 is.

He should have sent the pen back to have the baby bottom fixed......but some folks never read the small print. Or would rather be someone busy complaining instead of using his warrentee.

 

Nibs out of alignment IMO comes from boxing that is not postal proof....the packages are not up to Guelet standards....wrapped to be bomb proof.

 

All my new Pelikans are just fine...ain't but 3 out of some 20, the rest are semi-vintage or vintage used.

Having mostly pens like that sent often just in a padded envelope, I've learned to adjust a nib as normal.

 

Once in the Day of Yore, there was the fabled Corner Pen Shoppe. Usually guarded by tame dragons....and you did check your pen your self.

I of course being a workers kid bought blister Wearever or those ugly '60's Esterbrook....did have Sheaffer school pen once in a while too....All worked just fine....It wasn't until I got here I found out....some didn't.

Baby bottom??????? Clean a Pen??????

 

The squeaky wheel squeaks....pens that work are forgotten and never make it on the Complain threads.

Edited July 15, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[Sandy1]

Hi,

 

Hmmm

 

Certainly I wasn't around at the time, but it seems to me that in the USA era of the lifetime warrantee. Pens like the 'white dot' Sheaffers. And when pens were valued gifts for presentation.

 

The pen Co.s were innovating, with pens like the Parker 61 and 51, and the Sheaffer Snorkels. For those innovations to gain consumer acceptance, the pens had to work very well indeed, so before being boxed-up had a close encounters with people at various stages of production. Today those pens endure.

> Then we had the attempts to fend-off the onslaught of ballpoints by making the bestest FP ever. (I wonder about the QA/QC of early ballpoints: both pen and refill.)

 

Also, when FP Co.s competed against each other, and when FPs were not considered disposable or blingy luxury items - people used their pens. (No idea if Co.s provided FPs for employees, but I've seen FPs with Co. names.) Not like taking a box of pencils from the stationery stores.

 

And I imagine that some [steel nib] lever-fillers were just whumped together, so their life expectancy was at best that of the sac - no intention of being repaired / re-sac'ed.

 

I'll let other Members estimate the dates for that.

 

To be clear, most of the older pens that I have were professionally restored, so there's already beeen a Darwinian thinning of the herd, plus the survivors that were worth restoring carry on.

 

__ __

 

On the other hand, modern materials and manufacturing processes have advanced, so it is not just a matter of QA/QC, but the overall quality of what's delivered. (I really like my little Prera.)

 

I have no idea of what's coming out of the small shops of craft/custom pen makers, but I reckon that pride of personal production has boosted QA/QC : its not a brand name, its their name.

 

Bye,

S1

Edited July 16, 2017 by Sandy1

[jar]

I think there may be material here for an interesting study.

 

Why do some people seem to always get defective products when other people never seem to get defective products?

[Sandy1]

I think there may be material here for an interesting study.

 

Why do some people seem to always get defective products when other people never seem to get defective products?

 

The same could be said for my love life... Ah me.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Sandy1

[pajaro]

Snakebite.

[OMASsimo]

In my opinion, the game probably changed in the 90s. Internet shopping didn't exist before and at least where I lived it would have been weird to mail order an expensive quality pen. You went to a local stationary store to try out and find the ONE pen you'd use for the next 20-30 years (at least I still thought then). A Pelikan or Montblanc with baby bottom was a thing unheard of. If you had an issue with your pen you'd bring it back to your local store, they'd be embarrassed and take care of it. Of course there were brands known for QC issues, e. g. OMAS for some time.

 

I really think that QC regarding writing performance is a shame today and was way better 30 years ago. But on the other hand the overall build quality definitely has increased on average. Many vintage pens do not reach the high material and manufacturing quality we are used from modern pens. But the nibs worked. In times when fountain pens were essential writing instruments and competition between producers was fierce, no company could afford poor QC on writing performance. I doubt that there were so many lemons that were just trashed so that current vintage enthusiasts would only get the cream of the crop. But of course they usually have been broken in, which might make a difference.

 

By the way, complaints about poor QC is definitely not exclusive regarding fountain pens. You hear the same complaints in many (probably all) areas.

[Aurko]

For all that it's worth, I've had great quality control from Sailor, Pilot, and Platinum.Dozens of pens and barely any defective ones [yet to get a defective Sailor out of the box, one pilot that was slightly misaligned, and one Platinum that was a tad dry]. I'm not old enough to know if quality control was better back in the day but I can safely say that I think quality control for some companies today is pretty amazing.

[Angel91]

I must say that I thought same as jar, none of my pens (pelikan, montblanc, lamy, even Visconti) were never defective and I think people were overreacting.

I've bought in the last year a pilot 74, a lamy 2000, a Visconti Homo sapiens, and aurora optima. All of them were too dry, had baby bottom, or just didn't write. Fortunately nibmeisters are there to fix it, but it really is disappointing.

[mitto]

No comparison of QC of pens of yester years and modern ones. The QC was excellent of pens produced upto 1980s or so.