Vintage Conway Stewart Comparisons

[WhiteStarPens]

Are there any collectors who could either recommend a vintage C.S or compare the different sizes in their collection? While the stats on http://conwaystewart.wesonline.org.uk/csbook/page1.htm are helpful, a comparison photo would be very helpful.

 

I'm looking for something bigger than the #85l, which I acquired a year ago. While it is an excellent pen, for me it is too thin for longer writing sessions.

 

Any help on the matter would be greatly appreciated.

Edited July 7, 2017 by WhiteStarPens

[twdpens]

Try a 58 or 100. Expect to pay a little more though, especially for the latter. Alternatively, a 55 is usually a good buy.

 

HTH,

 

Martin

[northlodge]

The above is a good call, to which you could add the CS45 or CS60, as well as the early Duro models.

 

Cheaper options might include the CS475 / CS479 and the CS286 which whilst not long are quite chunky.

[mallymal1]

Hello WhiteStarPens,

 

Here are a few similarly styled Conway Stewarts as comparisons..

 

 

 

From L to R with some quick measurements:

 

CS 85 Barrel width 11mm, section width mid-way 8.5mm.

CS 28 Barrel width 12mm, section width mid-way 9mm.

CS 58 Barrel width 12mm, section width mid-way 10mm.

CS 27 Barrel width 12mm, section width mid-way 9mm.

CS 60 Barrel width 12mm, section width mid-way 10mm.

CS 85L Barrel width 11mm, section width mid-way 9mm.

CS 76 Barrel width 11mm, section width mid-way 9mm.

CS 100 Barrel width 13.5mm, section width mid-way 10.5mm.

 

 

A few 'older' style Conway Stewarts...

 

 

From L to R:

 

CS 85 Barrel width 11mm, section width mid-way 8.5mm.

CS 55 Barrel width 12mm, section width mid-way 10mm.

CS 226 Barrel width 12mm, section width mid-way 9mm.

CS 286 Barrel width 12mm, section width mid-way 9mm.

CS 475 Barrel width 12mm, section width mid-way 9mm.

CS 479 Barrel width 11mm, section width mid-way 9mm.

CS 85L Barrel width 11mm, section width mid-way 9mm.

 

Hope it's of some use.

 

 

 

[Margie]

What would you expect to pay for a CS 58 in good shape?

[PaulS]

since the pen is apparently wanted for writing, then the nib will be more important that the body, and great care must be taken in choosing the sort of point preferred by the writer. C.S. aren't famous for flex nibs, and it's more likely that firm will be the order of the day.

Best of luck.

[mallymal1]

What would you expect to pay for a CS 58 in good shape?

 

The 58 is one of the more popular CS pens and tends to go for the higher prices, so, you could be looking at $100 plus for the marble and hatched finishes, and much more for the herringbones and 'cracked ice'.

 

It is, however, still possible to find bargains out there.

 

As Paul suggested, the 58 nibs are generally firm, and excellent writers.

[BillZ]

Only CS I own is the Wordworth LE #38/75. It s a stunning pen both in looks and performance. I wasn't sure how to locate it among the extensive records at the link.

[judo]

The retail prices are similar in the UK to those quoted by MalcolmH but I agree that there are bargains to be found. I purchased two Conway Stewart pens recently at a local auction for very low prices and they were both in excellent condition. The CS Executive 60 Green Hatched pattern has a rigid Duro 14ct nib which I think is a shorthand version and cost me £30 (approx 23 USD).

 

 

 

The second pen which is a CS286 Blue Marble with a 14ct nib which is semi-flexible (plus). It writes very well with plenty of variation in stroke width.

 

 

 

Sorry for the poor photos but I didn't have any decent lighting tonight and wanted to post.

 

STATS:

CS Exec 60, Barrel width 12mm, Section mid-way 9mm, Capped length 130mm.

CS 286, Barrel width 12mm, Section mid-way 9mm, Capped length 127mm.

[PaulS]

Thinking of the comments re the CS Ex. 60 with a rigid Duro nib, and the suggestion of a shorthand connection, instinctively my thoughts are to say possibly not for shorthand. Bearing in mind the date of manufacture, then Pitman's would have been the order of the day, and my humble opinion is to say that rigid Duro nibs are too firm and unforgiving for Pitman's shorthand, which relies for it's success on thick and thick strokes, made quickly. Have to say that in my days writing the stuff, I only ever used a pencil, so hand on heart cannot say I used ink, and will defer to those who may have tried the 60, with a Duro nib, for shorthand.

 

As everyone knows, C.S. did market a pen and nib specifically for shorthand - off-hand I don't know that it's designated by a number, and seems to be called simply 'Conway Stewart - Shorthand', and accompanied by a 14ct. nib imprinted with the word 'SHORTHAND' and 3L - what 3L means I've no idea, although the figure 3 may represent the size. There was a later, and less impressive looking C.S. shorthand pen, with a push-fit type cap and the same nib, with a barrel imprint of 'Conway - Shorthand'.

C.S. used a green coloured metal cap jewel (slightly cheap looking - the green wears off) to indicate their Shorthand pens - Waterman used a more impressive and prominent red plastic jewel.

The earlier C.S. shorthand pen was designed with lever bar and sac - the later cheaper looking model was a squeeze bar filler.

Other than these two models which were marketed for shorthand - there is the C.S. No. 84 which is quoted often as being used for shorthand - at least it is on Jonathan Donahaye's C.S. site.

 

Of course, the Exec. 60 with Duro nib is an impressive f.p. - so these comments in no way dismissive of that model - just that I'm doubtful it was used or designed specifically for Pitman's shorthand.

Edited August 17, 2017 by PaulS

[judo]

Thanks PaulS for your advice regarding my CS Executive 60 nib possibly being for shorthand. I can't find the reference, but I thought that I had read somewhere that the 'firm, short tine' nibs were designed for shorthand. Out of my many pens, this is the only one with such short tines but maybe the Duro nib was marketed to compete with the Parker 'Lifetime Warranty'? It would certainly make it less prone to damage than the longer, flexible tines. It does write very smoothly and I am very pleased to have it available in my rotation of pens for regular use.

 

 

 

[PaulS]

As you'll probably know, the House of Commons/Lords (?) in London (U.K.) debates/discussion were traditionally recorded by the Hansard workers who used Pitmans shorthand to record manually all of the day's chit chat - there wasn't the facility then for electronic recording, although no doubt that has now all changed.

Would be interesting to hear from anyone who knows whether those stenographers used pencils or f.ps.

There was some truth perhaps in the suggestion that an HB pencil was more reliable than ink, but again, since I never used a f.p. for taking dictation, then can't verify that - certainly it does seem easier to produce the thick and thin strokes with lead.

 

If you look at the nibs on Relief f.ps., they too have short tines leading out from a wide shouldered nib. Whether anyone has used a Relief f.p. for taking dictation I've not a clue, so no idea if they would be suitable candidates for shorthand, but possibly so, in view of your comments re the nib profile to your 60 nib. As you know, Relief had a connection with C.S.

Lovely pen by the way - I'm very envious - but have to say I've always shied away from collecting C.S. - it's that numbering system that floors me - and they don't seem to have produced any flex nibs - or am I wrong in that?

Edited August 18, 2017 by PaulS

[northlodge]

In response to the above posts by PaulS:

 

The CS 'Shorthand' (the better one) was based upon the CS85L, but did not carry a model number.

 

The Relief pens were indeed made by CS for Esterbrook, the Relief nib being an Estie product. (great nibs, but not usually offering flex).

 

CS did manage to prduct some flexi nibs, they tend to surface on the early models c.1920's. I found a great example,on a Selfridge own brand pen a few years back.

[judo]

PaulS asked if CS produced any Flex nibs and I thought I would post the example below of my CS286. I don't know if you would call this flex or semi-flex, but I get quite a variation in width. Sorry about the inexpert writing, but I'm trying to improve. I would appreciate advice on flex vs semi-flex in CS nibs.

 

[mallymal1]

I think that CS tried to produce a nicely writting nib, that could be handled by the "millions"...the mass market.

 

The question is, then, could the mass market handle a "flex" nib?

 

I know that I cann't.

 

What I can handle, and enjoy, is a nib with a little bit of give. A bit of spring, but not easily sprung.

 

Ahhh, the simple pleasures of life.

 

I think then, that the run of the mill, mass produced pens of yesteryear (like Conway Stewart), would have a full firm, to slight flex nib, and if you crave and can use a full flex, look elsewhere.

 

A dip pen is possibly the best recommendation.

[mallymal1]

PaulS asked if CS produced any Flex nibs and I thought I would post the example below of my CS286. I don't know if you would call this flex or semi-flex, but I get quite a variation in width. Sorry about the inexpert writing, but I'm trying to improve. I would appreciate advice on flex vs semi-flex in CS nibs.

 

Scan_20170820 (3).jpg

 

Lovely writing judo - very nice. The #5 nib, which is generally found on the 286, tends to be nice and soft, giving some line variation. Looks like yours is like that.

[PaulS]

thanks to all for their input re CS nibs - flex or otherwise - I know little about CS pens in general Have to say that I'm a big fan of flex nibs - but then again I don't write letters, so perhaps if I did they might lose their appeal, but I love to bits the sudden variation from thin to wide lines, and the appearance that looks more artistic than mere handwriting The flex variation makes even my writing look good, which otherwise with a normal medium firm nib looks very uneducated and lacking in style.

Would agree that judo's writing samples are very appealing and attractive.

[judo]

Thanks for the nice comments from PaulS and MalcolmH. I haven't had any need to remove the nibs from my CS286 or Executive 60 pens yet as they are writing well and appear to have been serviced (with new sacs) before I bought them but will eventually check the reference number on each.

[WhiteStarPens]

Thank you all for your replies, they have been most helpful. In fact, they have been so helpful that a C.S #55 has already worked its way into my shirt pocket as a near-perfect daily writer! I’m glad my questions have provoked such an interesting discussion too!

I’ll hopefully do a review, or maybe post a few pictures in the ‘Which Conway Stewart are you using today?’ topic.

[mallymal1]

Thank you all for your replies, they have been most helpful. In fact, they have been so helpful that a C.S #55 has already worked its way into my shirt pocket as a near-perfect daily writer! I’m glad my questions have provoked such an interesting discussion too!

I’ll hopefully do a review, or maybe post a few pictures in the ‘Which Conway Stewart are you using today?’ topic.

 

Good to hear that you have ended up with a pen you enjoy, and looking forward to seeing/hearing about your 55.