Flossing Feed And Feeling Bumps

[bkpens]

I recently purchase a vintage Montblanc 146 that had been very lightly used. In flossing the nib, I also ran the corner of my brass shim down the feed. I noticed that there were bumps along the feed which struck me as odd. Is that supposed to be there? Or is that some unwanted gunk, like old dried ink, that I should try to wash out? Thanks in advance!

[Erik Dalton]

I hope you are not flossing the fins with a brass shim. If it's an ebonite feed you should be careful handling it. Pics would help us understand.

[bkpens]

Not the fins but the channel. As I understand it, this should just be like a smooth straight line down the feed. I have no pics because this area of the feed is of course below the nib. Any guidance?

[Bo Bo Olson]

I'd only think of flossing with a brass shim, if I had problems and not as first thing with out a problem.

 

Do try a bit of non-sudsing ammonia diluted to 10%***, and a couple drops of Dawn; in and out of a cup. If there for some reason ink that won't wash out, it will do the job.

 

Of my 50 some odd working vintage pens, I may have flossed once. Just to see what it was all about.

In I bought from German Ebay, I found in many old piston pens old dried ink. If it came out in a nice blue cloud, it was the only ink to put in a pen, if one was going to put it in the dark of the drawer for 50 years. Pelikan Royal Blue .....could be MB Royal Blue.

If the ink comes out in dark threads it was a Blue-Black, and will take four or five times as long to clean out than Pelikan Royal Blue.....................that was using just water.

 

***I have used JP's pen flush some 4-5 times in the 7 or so years I have it. Before that I did buy some Ammonia that I used after diluting a couple of times. JP's good for cleaning out fresh supersaturated ink.

 

Vintage MB.....when, '50's, 30's.....or 70-80's or the modern late 80's to now springy nibbed one?

In I have three from the early '50's don't consider my '70-80's 146 vintage....in it don't have a semi or maxi-semi-flex nib, I think of it as semi-vintage. It has a 'true' regular flex nib of it's era. I have a modern one too from 2006.

 

Remember if you are going to put your MB away for a generation or two, uncleaned, do use a Royal Blue ink.

Edited June 27, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[Erik Dalton]

I agree with BoBo, go with the soaking. A nice long soak can do wonders for a pen.

If it's an ebonite feed the sirfaces can appear fuzzy, not totally smooth. It's the nature of the material. All those little nooks and crannies hold ink. That's why ebonite feeds are preferred over modern plastic.

So don't be too fussy with it until after you have soaked it overnight in pen flush. You can use an old soft bristled tooth brush later if you like. But be gentle with it. You don't want to break or damage it.

 

Good luck. Keep us posted on how it goes.

[bkpens]

Thanks for the advice! I will try the overnight soak. Do I draw the solution into the barrel of the pen? I'd like to clean out any residual ink in the barrel (I suspect there's some) but am concerned about the interaction between the ammonia and the brass piston. Also, should I simply leave my pen submerged up to the section?

 

Bo Bo, mine is from the late 80s with a single tone nib. I suppose I should more accurately call it semi-vintage!

 

I'll let you know how it goes!

[Bo Bo Olson]

I wouldn't let it soak with ammonia or pen flush over night......running it through the pen 8-10 times should do the trick...(perhaps an hour if it don't take right away).......water overnight yes.

 

The channel need not be slick...as mentioned....what is most important is how does it write......if it is dry and it is not a dry ink......and you need to try a wet ink in it to find that out, you might well not need to do anything.

 

The piston gasket should keep any fluid away from the brass piston fittings in back of the piston gasket. You have Plastic Gasket 2.0............Plastic Gasket 1.0 was from '40 to @'55.

 

I have two 146's one a great balanced '50's medium large, with a maxi-semi-flex nib, the other the '70-80's Large 146. The '50's is better. The '70-80;s has a 'true' regular flex nib.

 

I am no longer quite the semi-flex snob I once was. A good regular flex nib is if F or M often a very good nib for shading inks. Not as wet as the easier bend and tine spread semi-flex.

 

The best balanced Large pen I have is a Snorkel, which surprised me by being a Large pen. My semi-vintage Large 146, is not that bad a pen....I can get use to it with in minutes. Is lighter and more nimble than I expected. It's not as heavy as many Large pens.

 

I'd not planned to buy it. It was near mint. I was at a live auction and it was a start bid of E150....no interest ... and at that price I thought affordable....for a pen I didn't really care for. I like it better now than when I bought it.

 

MB because the nib don't screw out, is one of the better, faster to clean....(if not using supersaturated inks), piston pens. Cleans 1/3-1/4th faster than a Pelikan. But with a Pelikan I cheat, unscrew the nib, flush out with a rubber bulb...have one cut down for the nib&feed.

 

Still I'd say MB is faster....from my telescope 234 1/2, rolled gold 742, and smaller and larger 146, out to my Woolf. vs a slew of other piston pens........9 of 10 of my pens are piston.

Edited June 28, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[siamackz]

I'm not a fan of soaking, especially if the pen is celluloidnornhard rubber, but even in general. If you have managed to disassemble the feed, then just take a toothbrush with some gentle liquid soap and brush clean the feed under water.

[Erik Dalton]

I was talking about soaking the nib and feed. It sounded like you had the nib and feed out of the pen. As far as pen flush in the barrel. Unless you see problems, water flush should do it.

 

As far as your question about pen flush coming in contact with the brass piston. '80s barrels are resin not celluloid. The piston head is plastic. So is the shaft and worm gear inside. The only brass is the piston housing that screws the whole piston assembly into the barrel. There should never be ink or pen flush behind the piston head. So no worries about that. If you're concerned about ink in the barrel, you can bring the piston head down into the ink window and you can inspect it. Remember that's a really tight seal between the piston head and the barrel. So the inside of the barrel is getting squeegeed every time the piston runs up and down.

 

If you don't have the nib and feed out of the pen then don't put pen flush in the barrel. If You do have the nib and feed out, then go ahead. Fill the barrel, turn the pen nib up. Let it sit for a couple hours. Rinse out the barrel thouroughly with water. After that, you have probably washed away any silicone grease in the barrel. If the piston feels like it's scraping its way down the barrel, then you will have to re-apply some silicone grease inside the barrel to free up the travel of the piston.

 

Hope that helps.

[Erik Dalton]

If you want to see what the inside of your pen looks like and what happens when ink leaks past the piston head and into the back of the pen, check this out.

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/311372-repairing-a-mb-146/

[Bo Bo Olson]

Yanking out a MB nib is a pain....first you have to break loose the pine-tar glue....what are you going to glue it back with?

MB has a special tool for breaking loose the nib.

It is not a pen I would take apart.........I don't have the right kind of glues.

[ReadyFireAim]

..mine is from the late 80s with a single tone nib..

 

 

Yanking out a MB nib is a pain....first you have to break loose the pine-tar glue....what are you going to glue it back with?

MB has a special tool for breaking loose the nib.

It is not a pen I would take apart.........I don't have the right kind of glues.

 

Mine was early 1990's and had the "pink bubble gum" sealant.

I just used silicone to reseal it after the service. (the one in my picture)

It has worked fine.

 

You do need the 180 degree pin tool though because it will probably be tight.

See advice for removing the nib unit if you have not done it before.

[Erik Dalton]

Mine was early 1990's and had the "pink bubble gum" sealant.

I just used silicone to reseal it after the service. (the one in my picture)

It has worked fine.

 

You do need the 180 degree pin tool though because it will probably be tight.

See advice for removing the nib unit if you have not done it before.

I've only taken out a Montblanc nib in cases when I had no choice. Normally there is no need. I have also used silicone grease in place of the pink bubblegum sealant with no ill effects. I have all the wrenches to remove the nibs, piston assembly, as sell as some bubblegum sealant. But if I have to get inside the pen, I prefer to go in from the back by removing the whole piston assembly. I prefer not to mess with Montblanc nibs.

There is always the risk of over tightening, putting in too much sealant causing cracks to the barrel. Taking a Montblanc apart should only be done by someone with the necessary skill set and tools.

[bkpens]

Thanks everyone for the information and advice! The reason I think this is an issue is because whenever I use my 146, the flow starts out very wet and then, after a short bit of writing, becomes relatively dry. I haven't experienced such a decrease in flow with any other pen.

 

I suppose my original question still stands: is it normal that the channel of the feed is not completely smooth? When I run a shim down the feed channel on other pens the shim slides straight down without catching on anything. When I run the shim down my 146 channel it snags on a bump or two. Does anyone know if this is a unique feature to MB nibs or what this could be (gunked ink or otherwise)?

[Bo Bo Olson]

not going to do it to find out, my 146's are just fine as they are.

[ReadyFireAim]

is it normal that the channel of the feed is not completely smooth? When I run a shim down the feed channel on other pens the shim slides straight down without catching on anything.

 

The slit in the nib should be smooth.

I don't think it matters what the floor of the groove in the feed channel looks like.

 

I have carved some of them out with crude tools before in order to open them up and they work fine.

Once I didn't clean the ebonite dust as well as I should have and it would write fine until a tiny speck got stuck in the nib slit.

This happened over and over until I pulled the nib and cleaned it properly.

I could see this little "cork" when I held it up to the light

Edited June 29, 2017 by Bordeaux146

[Erik Dalton]

think I'm beginning to understand what your concerns more clearly. Very difficult without pix, but here goes.

It's true that the ink channel is generally smooth some could have uneven spots from past owners running objects down the channel to open it up. Continuing with your brass shims is not going to help. In fact you run. The risk of creating shavings that will only clog up the feed system even more than it is.

 

You have an ink flow problem. That means the nib, feed, and possibly the area where the ink leaves the barrel to the feed. I assume that you've flushed the barrel using the piston. You really do have to get a hold of some ammonia based pen flush and soak this nib and feed. Stand the pen upright in the solution up to the section. Let it sit overnight. Rinse under running water in the morning. Turn the nib upside down let the water from the faucet get in under the shoulders and wings of the nib. This helps flush gunk out from between the underside of the nib and the feed. Next turn the nib face up. Again let the water hit the nib especially the ink groove. In your case i would repeat this soak and flush process a couple times. Test the pen and repeat if necessary.

 

Im going way out there with this, but once you know the nib and feed are clean, and the issue is not resolved, you might take a real good look at the tines. And this may be where you might look to send it out for service.

I once worked on a Visconti Homosapiens Bronze with a palladium dream nib. The pen wrote much as you describe yours writing. A page and half and it was dry. I did all the things I've just suggested to no avail. Half page and it would go dry. I went through every part of that pen.

I never suspected the nib itself. first: because I didn't want to mess with the palladium unless I absolutely had to. Second: the pen wrote incredibly wet and smooth as butter when the ink was flowing.

In the end it was the nib. The tines were misaligned in a way that the looked ok at first glance. On further inspection I noticed a knuckle on the shoulder of one of the tines. It had a kink in it that did not belong, the result, one tine was slightly shorter than the other. Palladium is a very touchy material to work with. It took me three days and nights before I got the kink out of the shoulder and the tines properly aligned. The owner is a friend so I've been in touch. The pen has never had a problem since.

It may not apply, I'm just throwing it out there

I hope some of this helps.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I think now you had bumps in your feed channel because the owner before you went at it with a razor blade...wanting a wetter writer.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson