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Best Before Date On Mont Blanc Ink?


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#1 Tanzanite

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 17:26

How inportant is it to follow the best before date on Mont Blac ink? I just discovered that my cartridges are a bit old, 2016. The bottles are dated 2019.



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#2 Randal6393

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 17:31

Cartridges are plastic and subject to evaporation. So it is best to use before the date. Not a real problem, though. If the cartridge is as full as it was when new, not much evaporation and the ink is still good to use. Bottles are much less subject to losing water by evaporation, as they are glass and have a great seal.

 

Long story to short, wouldn't worry. If you do have a bit of water loss, just add a drop with a syringe through the cap before putting in the pen.

 

Best of luck,


Yours,
Randal

From a person's actions, we may infer attitudes, beliefs, --- and values. We do not know these characteristics outright. The human dichotomies of trust and distrust, honor and duplicity, love and hate --- all depend on internal states we cannot directly experience. Isn't this what adds zest to our life?
 


#3 Morphling27

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 18:36

I think the dates are almost as laughable as the best by dates on canned goods.  It's a vague guideline and I assume MB is doing it to CYA.

 

You can buy vintage inks that are ready to go today or need a couple drops of water as stated above that work and write the day they were produced.  

 

If you keep your ink in a cool dark place and it's not getting contaminated it should last a long time.  Now, I live in AZ so keep it isn't hard but evaporation is a concern.  



#4 Owsley

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 18:44

How can this be true? "Cartridges are plastic and subject to evaporation"



#5 Chrissy

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 18:57

How can this be true? "Cartridges are plastic and subject to evaporation"

 

Water evaporates from plastic cartridges


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#6 Barkingpig

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 01:39

Whether it is Magic or Science, I couldn't say, but just know it is true.  I have older cartridges that are 1/2 gone; I have used the ink without issue.  These are from my earlier days when I bought a package of cartridges (instead of samples) to try an ink before purchasing a bottle.



#7 Sandy1

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 03:00

Hi,

 

IIRC the implementation of REACH standards forbade the use of biocides with a long half-life. Wiki REACH https://en.wikipedia...on_of_Chemicals

 

While intended to reduce accumulation of biocides in the biosphere, the inky boffins got sideswiped, so needed to reformulate some of their inks, and find preservatives that were REACH compliant. So now preservatives degrade over time, hence the potential shelf-life of the ink diminishes along with them.

 

So I reckon we should learn as we go, identifying inks that degrade quickly, and avoid introducing nasty critters into our ink bottles, especially those that are not often used.

 

Some Members, such as my beloved SamCapote :wub: , have explored the use of biocides in quite some detail. 

 

So-called 'vintage' inks have survived due to the free use of persistent biocides, so to use those to extrapolate the useful life of current REACH-compliant inks is akin to sailing by outdated 'flat Earth' charts - gonna run aground or fall off the Earth or be taken by dragons, kraken, Moby Dick et al.

 

So kudos to MB for giving the consumer a heads-up about their products.

  > In days gone by I've received dusty shop worn bottles from iNet Vendors who seemed to be picking from the bottom of the barrel, hoping I wouldn't take then to task about stale product, but they were unaware of the magnitude of my tantrums.

 

Bye,

S1


Edited by Sandy1, 25 June 2017 - 01:26.

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#8 SamCapote

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 04:43

Some Members, such as my beloved SamCapote :wub: , have explored the use of biocides in quite some detail.

Bye,

S1

 

"Bright star, would I were stedfast as thou art—
         Not in lone splendour hung aloft the night
And watching, with eternal lids apart,
         Like nature's patient, sleepless Eremite,
The moving waters at their priestlike task
         Of pure ablution round earth's human shores,
Or gazing on the new soft-fallen mask
         Of snow upon the mountains and the moors—
No—yet still stedfast, still unchangeable,
         Pillow'd upon my fair love's ripening breast,
To feel for ever its soft fall and swell,
         Awake for ever in a sweet unrest,
Still, still to hear her tender-taken breath,

And so live ever—or else swoon to death."

 

                               -- John Keats


With the new FPN rules, now I REALLY don't know what to put in my signature.

#9 ParkerDuofold

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 04:45

Post deleted by yours truly for being redundant. :)

Edited by ParkerDuofold, 24 June 2017 - 19:55.

With thanks to my Mom & Dad; who taught me to run free, but not run wild.

Please pray the Rosary daily. :)

Grab life with both arms and give it a bear hug every day! :D

#10 Jerome Tarshis

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 05:03

So-called 'vintage' inks have survived due to the free use of persistent biocides, so to use those to extrapolate the useful life of current REACH-compliant inks is comparing apples to oranges. (Though I do like a good fruit salad, and Parker Quink BlBk c/w SOLV-X.)

 

So kudos to MB for giving the consumer a heads-up about their products.

 

 

I am so glad to see this point made by an FPN member with a good reputation. Truly it doesn't now make any difference that somebody is using an ink from the 1950s. Those aren't the same as today's environmentally correct inks.

 

On the other hand, there are still a number of environmentally incorrect inks being sold. Helpful to know the difference.



#11 Sandy1

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 05:43

 

"Bright star, would I were stedfast as thou art—
         Not in lone splendour hung aloft the night
And watching, with eternal lids apart,
         Like nature's patient, sleepless Eremite,
The moving waters at their priestlike task
         Of pure ablution round earth's human shores,
Or gazing on the new soft-fallen mask
         Of snow upon the mountains and the moors—
No—yet still stedfast, still unchangeable,
         Pillow'd upon my fair love's ripening breast,
To feel for ever its soft fall and swell,
         Awake for ever in a sweet unrest,
Still, still to hear her tender-taken breath,

And so live ever—or else swoon to death."

 

                               -- John Keats

 

 

 

 

Breath of a cool breeze

when the heat of summer comes

An instant relief.

 

- J M Lysun

 

 

summer-breeze.jpg


Edited by Sandy1, 24 June 2017 - 05:46.

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#12 Tanzanite

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 08:23

Thank you all!

I think I will not buy any more ink for a while. Have a lot to use up since I have only newer ink except for 2 Parker bottles. I have 10 small bottles of Diamine on its way too... oh I will have to write a lot :)



#13 Sandy1

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 18:40

Thank you all!

I think I will not buy any more ink for a while. Have a lot to use up since I have only newer ink except for 2 Parker bottles. I have 10 small bottles of Diamine on its way too... oh I will have to write a lot :)

 

 

BB nibs?


The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#14 Randal6393

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 22:15

Or a Hero 2.8 mm italic nib.

 

Enjoy,


Yours,
Randal

From a person's actions, we may infer attitudes, beliefs, --- and values. We do not know these characteristics outright. The human dichotomies of trust and distrust, honor and duplicity, love and hate --- all depend on internal states we cannot directly experience. Isn't this what adds zest to our life?
 


#15 Dr Dan

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 22:55

First let me be clear that my comments do NOT contradict any of the prior comments. I am only trying to add onto what has already been said/written.

 

I would urge everyone to take advantage of the fact that MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheets) are available for inks available in the marketplace. Everyone should read them to understand better why the common comment 'do not mix inks of different manufacturers' applies. Everything written about the biocides I agree with. In addition, what else has changed is the types of anti-oxidants that can be used to stabilize the dyes utilized in inks. By their nature dyes need to absorb oxygen to provide the desired color. However, over time and exposure the dyes will eventually fully react and no longer provide the desired color. Anti-oxidants are needed to stabilize the dyes. Older inks commonly utilized organo-metallic, sulfur or nitrogen aromatic based anti-oxidants. The organo-mettallic (we aren't talking iron based or loads of the stuff;; in the 10-20 ppm range); but they were composed of what are typically called "heavy metals" and worked the best. Since one could presumably decide to dump their unused inks in their backyard and presumably end up contaminating the water tables, the use of these heavy metal based anti-oxidants was banned in inks. Unfortunately, the "stuff" used as a replacement do not last as long. The Best Use By date refers to how long these anti-oxidants will last. Biocides are added to insure the degraded dyes do not attract molds and bacteria. When your ink starts to show mold it is because the anti-oxidants have been depleted.

 

Hopefully, you will find this information useful and not of the "you asked me what time it is and I told you how to make a watch",

 

all the best.



#16 Morphling27

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 17:47

First let me be clear that my comments do NOT contradict any of the prior comments. I am only trying to add onto what has already been said/written.

 

I would urge everyone to take advantage of the fact that MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheets) are available for inks available in the marketplace. Everyone should read them to understand better why the common comment 'do not mix inks of different manufacturers' applies. Everything written about the biocides I agree with. In addition, what else has changed is the types of anti-oxidants that can be used to stabilize the dyes utilized in inks. By their nature dyes need to absorb oxygen to provide the desired color. However, over time and exposure the dyes will eventually fully react and no longer provide the desired color. Anti-oxidants are needed to stabilize the dyes. Older inks commonly utilized organo-metallic, sulfur or nitrogen aromatic based anti-oxidants. The organo-mettallic (we aren't talking iron based or loads of the stuff;; in the 10-20 ppm range); but they were composed of what are typically called "heavy metals" and worked the best. Since one could presumably decide to dump their unused inks in their backyard and presumably end up contaminating the water tables, the use of these heavy metal based anti-oxidants was banned in inks. Unfortunately, the "stuff" used as a replacement do not last as long. The Best Use By date refers to how long these anti-oxidants will last. Biocides are added to insure the degraded dyes do not attract molds and bacteria. When your ink starts to show mold it is because the anti-oxidants have been depleted.

 

Hopefully, you will find this information useful and not of the "you asked me what time it is and I told you how to make a watch",

 

all the best.

Hahaha thanks.

 

It was a great read.

 

Then you put your tag line at the end and I about died.



#17 Lloyd

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 18:33

I believe it's most important if you plan to imbibe it.


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Oscar Wilde

#18 pajaro

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 19:15

When I was about three years old I drank one of those large bottles of Sheaffer blue black ink.  Quart bottle?  Left a stain on a rose colored sofa, so I didn't get it all.  I seem to have survived, now being sixty-eight.  Reading about these things in the ink, wondering.


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They took the blue from the skies and the pretty girls' eyes and a touch of Old Glory too . . .


#19 Marcelo Ferrari

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 19:53

How can this be true? "Cartridges are plastic and subject to evaporation"

 

Whether it is Magic or Science, I couldn't say, but just know it is true.  I have older cartridges that are 1/2 gone; I have used the ink without issue.  These are from my earlier days when I bought a package of cartridges (instead of samples) to try an ink before purchasing a bottle.

 

Yes, polymers are permeable, which is a smart-pants way to say that liquids evaporate from plastic bottles. And it's science  ;). Of course, it depends on the polymer. Some are tailored to allow evaporation or transference from a medium like in sea water desalinization or timed drug release in the body. Other polymers like varnishes and coatings try to do the opposite.

 

Even in sturdiest of plastic containers, water will go away after enough time. For the nerds in da house, this site has a table with the permeability rate of different plastics: http://polymerdataba...rmeability.html


Who knows what ink lurks in the hearts of pen? The Shadow knows!


#20 Tanzanite

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 20:54

 

 

BB nibs?

Mainly F and EF japanese nibs :D








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