Unexpected Line Variation- Why?

[KellyMcJ]

This has me absolutely fascinated. I have an old Wearever Pennant with a steno nib. The nib is slightly flexible, but I don't use a lot of pressure when writing, so I can't see it flexing (maybe I have a natural point where I press harder?) It's not a stub or italic. Nevertheless, I'm getting some line variation. Another possibility is that the feed doesn't keep up with me.

 

The pen is old, maybe it's worn?

 

At any rate, I love the effect. Random natural line variation with character. I'm just baffled as to why it's happening.

 

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag402/klmcjilton/Mobile%20Uploads/20170620_090559_zpssxlocngk.jpg

 

EDIT: I apologize for the orientation- Photobucket's editor is absolutely no good at doing what I tell it to do!!!!!

Edited June 20, 2017 by KellyMcJ

[Bluey]

It's because it's slightly more more towards the dry side, giving your handwriting greater shading, as it will make the flow more sensitive to changes in pressure.

Edited June 20, 2017 by Bluey

[rwilsonedn]

I agree with Bluey. It appears that the nib is writing a bit dry, so that on fast strokes the nib starves a bit and you get a thinner line. You could probably fix this by adjusting the nib a little, or maybe even by giving the feed and nib a good thorough flush. But you might not want to ... It looks like you're having fun with the pen just as it is.

ron

[KellyMcJ]

I expect you guys are right. It's a brilliant effect, I really don't want to change it (maybe replicate it, but not change it) It seems to be working perfectly in this pen, at least with this ink. Just dry enough without skipping.

[Bo Bo Olson]

With a tad of flex, line variation happens when you press harder on a down stroke, or any letter where you are using a bit of pressure on parts of it.

 

I'd though an American steno nib to be firm...from what I remember reading.....could the nib have been sprung?

[KellyMcJ]

With a tad of flex, line variation happens when you press harder on a down stroke, or any letter where you are using a bit of pressure on parts of it.

 

I'd though an American steno nib to be firm...from what I remember reading.....could the nib have been sprung?

It's pretty firm. It's definitely not sprung. It's just not a nail.

 

Then again people say Charlie is a nail and my Charlie nib has some spring to it too- not that I write heavy enough to see it (I write light enough to accidentally lift the pen off the paper on occasion!)

[ac12]

Don't mess with that nib.

You will likely never be able to get the behavior again.

 

I have a Lamy nib that does that also. Confused the heck out of me, as the Lamy nib is NOT a flex nib, yet it gave me ink line variation with minimal pressure on the nib.

[Bookman]

[BlueJ]

Even a firm nib will allow a token amount of line width variation, or at least line density variation by increased ink flow even with minimal tine spread. For instance, even my Sailor H-F and H-M nibs (H stands for hard) will do what Kelly's does. My pens with Jowo and Bock nibs and my recently acquired Parker Vacumatic will show variation about like Bookman's, and those would still not be considered even semi-flex by most people, I suspect.

 

Kelly's shopping list/recipe does sound delicious though! What's it for, a spaghetti sauce?

[KellyMcJ]

Even a firm nib will allow a token amount of line width variation, or at least line density variation by increased ink flow even with minimal tine spread. For instance, even my Sailor H-F and H-M nibs (H stands for hard) will do what Kelly's does. My pens with Jowo and Bock nibs and my recently acquired Parker Vacumatic will show variation about like Bookman's, and those would still not be considered even semi-flex by most people, I suspect.

 

Kelly's shopping list/recipe does sound delicious though! What's it for, a spaghetti sauce?

It's some gumbo/jambalaya type stuff (not authentic, I don't think. My mom's "recipe")

 

I notice of all things, I get line variation with a humble uniball that I use at work. In that case, I think it's the angle that is to blame.

 

My (amazing in all regards)Jowo extra fine from Edison doesn't show much if any variation and I haven't spent enough time with other similarly fine nibs to know.

[ac12]

Harder to see line variation with a really fine nib.

 

With a wider nib, you get the thin line by being a bit dry, then with a little pressure you get the "normal" ink line.

As was mentioned, it is really ink flow, not flex.

[Bookman]

Even a firm nib will allow a token amount of line width variation, or at least line density variation by increased ink flow even with minimal tine spread. For instance, even my Sailor H-F and H-M nibs (H stands for hard) will do what Kelly's does. My pens with Jowo and Bock nibs and my recently acquired Parker Vacumatic will show variation about like Bookman's, and those would still not be considered even semi-flex by most people, I suspect.

 

Kelly's shopping list/recipe does sound delicious though! What's it for, a spaghetti sauce?

 

I haven't been as lucky with my JoWo and Bock nibs as you. They're all great nibs, but I'm not getting line variation with them. Maybe if I bore down on the downstrokes—as I did when I drew figure eights with the Estie 9668 and (for a post in another thread) with the three FPR "flex" nibs I recently bought—I might see some line variation. On the other hand, putting no downward pressure whatever on my Estie 9668, I get the line variation seen in my previous post. With the same light touch on my JoWo nibs, I get bubkes. Even my Bock nibs don't give what I would call line variation, or at least not the same kind. The tips are more cubed than round, somewhat more squared-0ff than the business end of a wooden match. I've just assumed this squarish shape was what made the writing line more distinctive. Now I'm confused.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Are modern Bock and JoWo nails and semi-nails?

I know Bock made vintage 'true' regular flex and semi-flex.(have them...loose)

 

...............perhaps you should buy vintage pens where you'd get the line variation. '50-60's German pens outside of Lamy.

IMO if right handed the Obliques of that era...out side Lamy, are the ones to buy, for line variation.

Lamy was a nail always. Artus was Lamy's regular flex models.

[KellyMcJ]

Are modern Bock and JoWo nails and semi-nails?

I know Bock made vintage 'true' regular flex and semi-flex.(have them...loose)

 

...............perhaps you should buy vintage pens where you'd get the line variation. '50-60's German pens outside of Lamy.

IMO if right handed the Obliques of that era...out side Lamy, are the ones to buy, for line variation.

Lamy was a nail always. Artus was Lamy's regular flex models.

 

I would suppose the JoWos are nails. I honestly have never tried to flex one- I'm too afraid of damaging them. If line variation happens naturally, I enjoy it a lot but I don't work for it.

[Bookman]

I'm not quite sure where the dividing lines are in these categories, nail vs other. I just tried a little exercise with various nibs, including my wife's Lamy Safari: just touching the nib to paper and then pressing down and bouncing up, bouncing up and down a few times without lifting the nib off the paper. I think the Lamy Safari justifies a new category beyond nail—maybe rock pick or murder weapon. No flexion, in a scary-sort-of way. The JoWo and Bock nibs had a small amount of spring, but the least of those that bent at all. My Pilot Custom 74 had somewhat more spring in it. My Pelikan M215 surprised me. It had as much spring as the FPR "flex" nibs.

 

If the Lamy Safari is still a nail and not something that ought to be kept locked in a cabinet, my JoWo and Bock nibs fall a bit short of that. YMMV.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Bookman

[KellyMcJ]

I'm not quite sure where the dividing lines are in these categories, nail vs other. I just tried a little exercise with various nibs, including my wife's Lamy Safari: just touching the nib to paper and then pressing down and bouncing up, bouncing up and down a few times without lifting the nib off the paper. I think the Lamy Safari justifies a new category beyond nail—maybe rock pick or murder weapon. No flexion, in a scary-sort-of way. The JoWo and Bock nibs had a small amount of spring, but the least of those that bent at all. My Pilot Custom 74 had somewhat more spring in it. My Pelikan M215 surprised me. It had as much spring as the FPR "flex" nibs.

 

If the Lamy Safari is still a nail and not something that ought to be kept locked in a cabinet, my JoWo and Bock nibs fall a bit short of that. YMMV.

 

Interesting. It makes sense since the Lamy are "student" pens- certainly the kind of pen to hand to someone who doesn't know how to use a foundtain pen. The Safari has intrigued me for a long time, but I never went for it. I am somewhat afraid of that grip section.

 

I'm curious, if you happen to know, how does the Lamy XF compare to the Jowo XF?

[Bookman]

 

Interesting. It makes sense since the Lamy are "student" pens- certainly the kind of pen to hand to someone who doesn't know how to use a foundtain pen. The Safari has intrigued me for a long time, but I never went for it. I am somewhat afraid of that grip section.

 

I'm curious, if you happen to know, how does the Lamy XF compare to the Jowo XF?

 

Mrs Bookman doesn't like the XF Safari nib I bought her, so I have to sneak it in there once in a while to ink-test. She said it writes too skinny. It was a little dry at first, and so I opened up the flow . I think I herniated a disc in the process. Even with a nice ink-flow it's properly an XF. As for JoWo XF nibs, I've found them to write more like Fs, and Fs to write more like Ms.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I think I herniated a disc in the process"""""

 

 

 

Nails really got to have a strong angry man, make the tines spread beyond 1 X.....to 1 1/2..which might be pushing it.. 1 1/4th is more it for nail line variation of a strong person.

My Lamy's are nails.....but a nails' Nail is a D nib of a '50-60's Pelikan.

 

Semi-nail, with good pressure give 2 X tine spread..........like a P-75. Not a whole lot of tine bend either.

 

The old fashioned, vintage/semi-vintage springy 'true' regular flex can be mashed to a 3 X tine spread. Has some tine bend. A nice ride, and if one presses a bit harder then necessary, then there will be some line variation or at least a thicker line.******

Once most companies made a regular flex nib as regular issue. Today most companies make nail/semi-nail as regular issue.

The reason I almost always say 'true' regular flex.

 

******Some folks coming over from nail, the first time they run into 'true' regular flex, think it semi-flex in the tines move ..........bend ....the tines spread .....and it's easy to do they don't even have to use two hands to do it....so it must be the fabled semi-flex............nope, just a old fashioned nib from once upon a time.

A nice nib I've really come to like, in it's drier than Semi-flex due lack of ease of tine spread, it is often unless well matched for paper and ink, a better shading nib.

Stub Semi-flex gives more line variation......my signature calls it flair.

 

 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Different from those are the 'Springy' nib...it has nice tine bend but only 2 X tine spread, like the Falcon, or a modern MB..........The Lamy Imporium is the best I've tried in 'Springy' nibs............too bad it only does a tine spread of 2 X.....had it gone 3X I'd been saving for it....in it would have been semi-flex.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[KellyMcJ]

 

Mrs Bookman doesn't like the XF Safari nib I bought her, so I have to sneak it in there once in a while to ink-test. She said it writes too skinny. It was a little dry at first, and so I opened up the flow . I think I herniated a disc in the process. Even with a nice ink-flow it's properly an XF. As for JoWo XF nibs, I've found them to write more like Fs, and Fs to write more like Ms.

My first fine was a Faber Castell and my Jowo EF is definitely finer than it. My Kaweco "EF" is actually as broad if not broader than the FC fine. A Pilot fine is heaven. The Jowo EF too, though maybe a smidge broader than the Pilot.

 

I used to be afraid of finer nibs, now I seek them.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Japanese is on the whole a size narrower than Euro..........so one would need to find a XXF in Western to = a Japanese EF.....Japanese nib is designed for tiny printed script.

Western for cursive.

 

So if you want super narrow, buy Japanese. Or if you are a printer....Japanese is the best way to fly,

 

 

Of course you have to only use supersaturated vivid (boring) inks

.....no two toned shading inks , no sheen inks ......and I doubt if glitter inks will work with super narrow.

 

Of course super narrow is good on poor paper...

Well, some blacks end up gray in narrow on poor paper.