Need A Couple Of Definitive Measurements On Some Vintage Pen Diameters

[eharriett]

Google is failing me and I don't trust myself to come up with the correct answers,, but I'm sure one of you knows the answers here:

 

I really like the diameter of my Sheaffer Snorkel. Love the way it feels in the hand. The section diameter appears to be flush with the barrel. Correct? What's the act diameter of it. I'm looking online and I'm seeing 10.5mm, 10.73mm, and even one place that says 1cm.

 

But wait, there's more: someone told me an Esterbrook LJ and SJ is the same diameter as the Snorkel/TM. I pulled out one of each and looked. They look close, but I can't say for sure. And until I got my first Snorkel, I would have said my most comfortable pen is my LJ. So I'd guess if they aren't dead on exactly the same, I would guess they're close. Correct? And my tests with a flexible tape measure keep coming up with different answers. And an online search is giving me even more different answers than a search on Snorkels.

 

Reason I'm asking is the diameter seems to be one of my biggest factors for enjoying holding a pen and when I search for a new pen in the future, I want to have a definitive answer to this question.

 

Thanks. I wouldn't have expected this to be such a tough answer to find, but i can't seem to get anything agreed upon.

[PaulS]

an Oz made barrel/U.S.A. nib reads 10.65 mm .............. an unmarked barrel with Canadian nib reads 10.75 mm ................... both data are for a Snorkel.

measurements taken on the barrel immediately before the short dip leading to the chrome ring affair i.e. the maximum barrel diameter. ....

but then don't forget to factor in whether it's summer or winter - temperature can make a difference to size

 

One tenth of a millimetre sounds unimportant and not the sort of variation that would appear to make for any noticeable difference when writing.

Edited June 20, 2017 by PaulS

[ac12]

I find pen diameter VERY important to me. The LJ is one of my favorite pens, because the diameter fits my grip.

 

My Esterbrooks measured with a dial caliper (accurate to 0.001 inch).

Metric measurement are converted from the inch measurement.

• LJ = 0.420 in = 10.7mm
• SJ = 0.416 in = 10.6mm

So they look pretty close to what Paul has measured for the Snorkels.

 

The only difference is whose caliper is more accurate

Mine is used and not calibrated, so I claim no high degree of accuracy from it, except to compare MY pens with each other.

 

BTW, you might consider investing in a caliper. There are some decent ones on eBay for reasonable prices. But I would not get the cheap plastic digital ones. I did and got what I paid for it, an unsatisfactory measuring device. The stainless steel ones are better, but you have to be VERY careful to not scratch your pen. I use a piece of tissue around the pen, then subtract the thickness of the tissue to get the pen diameter.

Edited June 19, 2017 by ac12

[PaulS]

I'd agree with the comments regarding the cheap calipers - you really do only get what you pay for.

The measurements I provided were taken with a micrometer - States made by The L.S. STARRETT Co (metric model No. 222M) - a small but very well made piece of kit dating from somewhere I'd assume in the mid C20, and hopefully it's never been dropped. - true it hasn't been re-calibrated recently.

I'd suggest that a quality engineering micrometer would provide a more accurate figure than calipers - although for the life of me I still fail to see the need to speak of differences in the region of tenths or hundredths of a millimeter as making a difference when holding a pen

Edited June 19, 2017 by PaulS

[eharriett]

Ok. Thank you. Now I know: the most comfortable grip for me is a grip diameter around 10.6 mm. That also explains why my most comfortable pen before the Snorkel was the LJ.

 

And now I know what I want to look for. Thank you for this help.

[EBUCKTHORN]

Wow! I'm surprised(?) impressed(?) that a person's grip is so sensitive that a simple inexpensive plastic slide caliper wouldn't be satisfactory. I realize this is an extremely crude instrument in comparison with a dial Starrett. It's all I use for evaluating pens, though I would be the first to admit that my relationship with fountain pens, though enthusiastic, is not especially sophisticated. Can you really discern the difference in diameter of the thickness (actually twice the thickness) of a tissue? I'm not challenging, just trying to learn. On the other hand, I, as I woodworker, can find minute variations of the surface of a wood object by passing my fingers over it so perhaps this is all just a matter of a person's experience that has led to a high standard.

[PaulS]

I think there has been some loss of meaning here, my fault - perhaps I should have been a little more explicit in my wording.

 

In making the comparison between calipers and an engineering micrometer, I was simply drawing attention to the fact that, of the two, then the latter will, probably, provide a more accurate reading - they are capable of reading down to one thou. of a mm. I too do some cabinet work, and find that simply working to the nearest millimeter is adequate - and I use a manual caliper for this - but considered in this instance that since the op's original request showed figures down to one hundredth of a mm, that I would follow suit, as they appeared to have that sort of accuracy in mind.

 

What I find intriguing and amusing is the fact that there is a desire to measure these things in the first place, with an interest in differences in the region of hundredths of a mm. Personally, I simply pick up a pen and write - sorry if I seem a philistine in this matter.

 

I don't have a dial on my Starrett - I think it pre-dates such luxuries.

Edited June 20, 2017 by PaulS

[ac12]

 

 

Wow! I'm surprised(?) impressed(?) that a person's grip is so sensitive that a simple inexpensive plastic slide caliper wouldn't be satisfactory. I realize this is an extremely crude instrument in comparison with a dial Starrett. It's all I use for evaluating pens, though I would be the first to admit that my relationship with fountain pens, though enthusiastic, is not especially sophisticated. Can you really discern the difference in diameter of the thickness (actually twice the thickness) of a tissue? I'm not challenging, just trying to learn. On the other hand, I, as I woodworker, can find minute variations of the surface of a wood object by passing my fingers over it so perhaps this is all just a matter of a person's experience that has led to a high standard.

 

The one that I had when you closed the caliper, you could see light showing thru and see that the measuring surfaces were not parallel. The measuring surfaces were also NOT flat. IOW, depending on where on the measuring surface you took your measurement, you would get different results. And the inner and outer measuring surfaces did not match to a zero. And the sliding part rocked ??? Talk about poor mechanical construction.

 

Based on the mechanical construction, I would be suspect of the measurements from the measuring module.

I would be more confident with a venier caliper. At least that does not have wheels and gears to be out of spec. Well as long as the the venier lines are good.

 

IOW, I had no confidence in the the numbers from that caliper.

 

As for accuracy, IMHO, for measuring pens, 1/10 of a mm is adequate for most measurements that we would take.

[FarmBoy]

My caliper reads to 0.0005"

[AltecGreen]

My caliper reads to 0.0005"

 

 

I use a Heidenhain or a Laser Ruler in a temperature controlled room.

[praxim]

I use two fingers and a thumb.

[PaulS]

yes, but where do you put them?

[praxim]

Umm, on the pen where it feels best? Well, it seems it might be better than using steel calipers, don't you think?

 

 

 

 

 

 

with not a suggestive smiley in sight

[PaulS]

just to finish off with some waist size comparisons from this maker ................. the PFM V has a barrel diameter of 12.65 mm - and what I believe to be a Slim Targa model 1005GX (I could be very wrong though - it has a 14 k nib and the crown on the cap lip) is down at 7.80 mm on the section -

shown in the attached picture. For men with meaty great mits and ladies with delicate fingers, perhaps.

 

the books comment that the Targa range are known for the 'snap shut' sound when being capped and good cap posting abilities - oddly this Slim model cap won't post at all - if you try this cap simply falls off.