Jump to content

Vintage 400 Id Help ? - Experienced Birder(S) Needed.


CrossFoot

Recommended Posts

I would appreciate some help please concerning a critique of my 2nd vintage Pelikan 400 purchase. Not positive how legit it is. If I did no more than pad the seller's retirement fund, I should at least have a nice vintage script nib and feed unit out of it.



Last Thursday, I received my 2nd 400 in brown tortoise for my birthday. :D post-135325-0-05622700-1497842794_thumb.jpg It is quite hard being patient, but I'm trying to follow Bo Bo Olson's advice: "You waited 57 (ugh 58) years, why be in a hurry now. The right pens will show up at fair prices." I might have failed this mission. :doh:



This bird might need some pro help (me too probably ... pens!). I will give my description and you Peli experts can comment on it if you so desire. I will attempt to upload some photos, but no promises (I have run out of patience after 2 photos with phone & iPad), I have had vision/acuity/mapping issues in the last 2 months. Hard to get sharp macro without DSLR.



First off, this is a very nice looking specimen cosmetically. The tortoise brown barrel has great clarity, light amber to greenish brown stripes with reddish orange streaks and considerable dark brown to black veins and blotches. Quite striking I'd say with "Pelikan 400 Gunther Wagner" stamped at bottom of the barrel. No stress cracks, nicks or gouges that I can overtly see; just the usual micro scratches on all of pen. The script medium nib and 4 rill feed look excellent. I haven't inked or dipped it yet. Compared to my other 400 this might be semi-flex at best, but feels very smooth even dry.



I do not discern any brassing on gold trim. In one way that bothers me ... what has been replaced with modern? For instance, I can see on inside of clip near the "ball" is the following two raised letters: "R" and "g" (each side of center line). Also, the cap "screw crown" has a very small "+" stamping on vertical face near the top line. The cap, piston knob and section are all dark brown and the finial is 2 chick lightly engraved with light brown/beige fill. The brown color almost looked black when I fist eyed it; I think the threads are the ultimate giveaway though. Speaking of threads, with the cap screwed on snugly over the section, it wiggles a bit when light index and thumb pressure is applied at cap band. The black cap from my green stripe 400 doesn't do this on either pen. The cap band has 3x stamping "PELIKAN 400" evenly spaced around it. There is a shallow "WIEDERHOLD" logo etched on said cap and also filled with same light brown or beige ink.



Now the potential problem area. The piston has total movement of approximately .60" when fully retracted (think inked) and there is a .040" gap between barrel and piston turn knob. I thought I read somewhere about how one can make an adjustment for that, but honestly don't remember. The black colored piston seal moves rather well yet not butter smooth. I can not tell for sure if the piston head is cocked slightly in the barrel or not, yet it appears to fully seal. It seemed to fill okay with cool tap water. It doesn't eject water with the authority of my green stripped 400 though. And, if I remember correctly, the green stripe has slightly over 1.0" of piston stroke. I haven't tried to remove the nib & feed to lube the piston due to the short stroke issue. What follows are some imperial unit converted measurements taken with proper Vernier Dial Indicators:


  • Capped overall length: 127.00 mm
  • Cap only length: 57.05 mm
  • Section front to end of celluloid barrel: 83.08 mm
  • Celluloid barrel only length: 64.14 mm
  • Barrel diameter (widest): 11.91 mm

Like Bugs Bunny would say: "That's all Folks!" Is it genuine 400 or mix & match?



Thank you for reading.



post-135325-0-88876700-1497842436_thumb.jpg



post-135325-0-32117800-1497905353_thumb.jpg



post-135325-0-10905300-1497905390_thumb.jpg





Edited by CrossFoot
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 11
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Bo Bo Olson

    5

  • Snorkels

    3

  • CrossFoot

    3

  • joss

    1

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

Hi,

 

The piston mechanism is friction fit into the barrel so, after gently warming up the barrel in warm water first, you should be able to push the mechanism further into the barrel. That should solve the problem of the gap.

 

However, if you feel that the stroke of the piston is too short then the piston mechanism is most likely wrongly assembled. You then have to remove the whole mechanism from the barrel. There are several threads here on FPN on how to proceed with that.

 

There was also a recent thread with some details on how assembling the piston mechanism to ensure an optimal stroke:

www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/321810-need-help-with-a-pelikan-tortoise/

 

Hope this helps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is less than I expected from our PM....you can ignore it until you get to the pen show.

 

I don't favor taking apart piston pens, when one can get an expert to do it. Murphy has a leather padded perch for when he perches on my shoulder.

 

I'll have to fly into a pen show....... :D I cranked my 400nn wrong years ago, with about so much....works like a charm still.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Eyes of the clip are older '50's...not the M400 '82-87.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I too recently just bought my second Pelican 400 and I am glad to see these pictures and Bo Bo's confirmation regarding the Pelikan eyes on the clip - BUT :

 

one of my Pelican 400 has "Gunther Wagner Pelican" engraved at the base of the barrel with BB engraved on the piston nob; my recently acquired Pelican 400 has "Gunther Wagner Pelican 400 and no nib size engraved on the piston nob.

 

Can someone tell me what that difference represents?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have three green stripped '50-54 400's, all are marked with nib size on the piston cap with no nib marking....My post war Ibis is marked on the piston cap with have no nib marking on the nib.

To my surprise the Ibis and the 100n were made until 1954.

 

I have what I think of as a transition '54 400 tortoise, which has no marking on the barrel, but on the nib. I do not have a 400n, but my 400nn has nib marking with no barrel marking. So I think the 400n may be just nib marked.

Could well be if your nib marked Pelikan is not a 400n, yours is also a transition 400 pen from 1954.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, the nib says Pelikan 585 14 karat F. I have no way of knowing if it is the original nib with that pen since it can screw out, but thank you Bo Bo they seem to match the 1954 explanation.

 

Does the "Gunther Wagner Pelikan" vs "Gunther Wagner Pelikan 400" engraving difference fit with the 1954 transition year production as well?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know for sure but suspect the ones labeled 400 are later; "Gunther Wagner Pelikan" vs "Gunther Wagner Pelikan 400" Two of my '50-54 green stripes has just "Gunther Wagner Pelikan" one has Gunther Wagner Pelikan 400, like my tortoise.

What I did notice from such a small sample is the imprint of the Gunther Wagner Pelikan 400's are fainter....much fainter than the ones with out 400. How about yours????? It was so faint I hadn't known it was there. 400 Gunter Wagner, Germany. Even under a good desk light my regular 10 X loupe had problems reading it, I had to go to a lighted loupe and even then it was very faint.

 

My '54 transitional has Pelikan 400 on the cap band. The other three have nothing on the cap band.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My cap band is plain, no engraving on it.

 

The engraving on the barrel "Gunther Wagner Pelikan 400". Is faint......so much so that at first glance I wondered if it was stamped on and momentarily feared a fake! I looked with a lighted magnifying glass and used a wooden toothpick to confirm the writing is in fact engraved. This is a green stripped FYI (I doubt green vs tortoise would make any difference, but you never know).

 

Thanks again

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd guess '50-53 to have the size stamped on the piston knob..............in or around '54 more info, like 400 Gunther Wagner ....and some that are more Transition like no longer having the nib marking on the knob but on the nib.

From my reading and commentaries here there is often small variations in the 100-100n's and the 'early mid-50's 400's that we are talking about.

The change to a 400n is actually rather 'small' looking it by eye, the knob end is a tad rounder....just a slight tad.

I'd convinced my self I had a 400n....that tortoise....but it wasn't. The cap wasn't long enough.

 

Posted the 400n became a medium-long like it's following model the catch up with the Jones's torpedo shaped medium long 400nn; whose cap is shorter than the 400n.

Torpedo shape was IN....Swan had one, MB had two, Geha had one, Aurora, the second model P-51, and the 400nn.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Most Contributions

    1. amberleadavis
      amberleadavis
      43844
    2. PAKMAN
      PAKMAN
      33501
    3. Ghost Plane
      Ghost Plane
      28220
    4. inkstainedruth
      inkstainedruth
      26627
    5. jar
      jar
      26101
  • Upcoming Events

  • Blog Comments

    • Shanghai Knife Dude
      I have the Sailor Naginata and some fancy blade nibs coming after 2022 by a number of new workshop from China.  With all my respect, IMHO, they are all (bleep) in doing chinese characters.  Go use a bush, or at least a bush pen. 
    • A Smug Dill
      It is the reason why I'm so keen on the idea of a personal library — of pens, nibs, inks, paper products, etc. — and spent so much money, as well as time and effort, to “build” it for myself (because I can't simply remember everything, especially as I'm getting older fast) and my wife, so that we can “know”; and, instead of just disposing of what displeased us, or even just not good enough to be “given the time of day” against competition from >500 other pens and >500 other inks for our at
    • adamselene
      Agreed.  And I think it’s good to be aware of this early on and think about at the point of buying rather than rationalizing a purchase..
    • A Smug Dill
      Alas, one cannot know “good” without some idea of “bad” against which to contrast; and, as one of my former bosses (back when I was in my twenties) used to say, “on the scale of good to bad…”, it's a spectrum, not a dichotomy. Whereas subjectively acceptable (or tolerable) and unacceptable may well be a dichotomy to someone, and finding whether the threshold or cusp between them lies takes experiencing many degrees of less-than-ideal, especially if the decision is somehow influenced by factors o
    • adamselene
      I got my first real fountain pen on my 60th birthday and many hundreds of pens later I’ve often thought of what I should’ve known in the beginning. I have many pens, the majority of which have some objectionable feature. If they are too delicate, or can’t be posted, or they are too precious to face losing , still they are users, but only in very limited environments..  I have a big disliking for pens that have the cap jump into the air and fly off. I object to Pens that dry out, or leave blobs o
  • Chatbox

    You don't have permission to chat.
    Load More
  • Files






×
×
  • Create New...