14K Or 18K?

[lurcho]

The excellent Spanish company FPNibs offers #6 nibs in either 14K or 18K for a strikingly similar price. In US dollars it's $74.69 and $80.12.

 

This doesn't make sense to me, since 18K is 1.29 times the gold content of 14K. (I think.)

 

Anyway, since I love steel JoWos, I'm thinking of getting one in gold and, perhaps perversely, setting it in a Jinhao 159 or 750.

 

But I'm not sure whic way to go. I know that 18K is for all sensible reasons an inferior alloy for the purpose, but I wonder about the nail-like possibilities of a 14K.

 

I'd appreciate any feedback, including perhaps that of Franklin-Christoph owners.

[FarmBoy]

If you just happen to be in France you can't call a 14K object solid gold, it must be 18K or higher.

[fabri00]

If you just happen to be in France you can't call a 14K object solid gold, it must be 18K or higher.

in Europe, not only in France.

[FarmBoy]

in Europe, not only in France.

Yes but I blame France.

[Jerome Tarshis]

I have repeatedly read this assertion about French law and 18K nibs, but have never understood it. As FarmBoy certainly knows, Parker 51s with 14K nibs were sold all over the world. Including France. So there isn't any French law against selling pens with 14K nibs in France.

 

Nor is there a new law, of either France or the EU. Only a few minutes ago I found this:

 

http://stylosenligne.com/stylos-aurora/1332-stylo-plume-aurora-modele-optima.html

 

The Optima is described as having a 14K nib. Seems to be no problem about selling it. Nor about describing it as having a gold nib. With rhodium on top.

 

Can somebody explain what this is all about, with some exactitude? Is it that nibs manufactured in France must be 18K? I have owned pens with 14K nibs that weren't manufactured in France but must have been sold in France. Parker, Cross, Aurora, Montblanc pens. From the 1950s to the present day.

[fabri00]

I have repeatedly read this assertion about French law and 18K nibs, but have never understood it. As FarmBoy certainly knows, Parker 51s with 14K nibs were sold all over the world. Including France. So there isn't any French law against selling pens with 14K nibs in France.

 

Nor is there a new law, of either France or the EU. Only a few minutes ago I found this:

 

http://stylosenligne.com/stylos-aurora/1332-stylo-plume-aurora-modele-optima.html

 

The Optima is described as having a 14K nib. Seems to be no problem about selling it. Nor about describing it as having a gold nib. With rhodium on top.

 

Can somebody explain what this is all about, with some exactitude? Is it that nibs manufactured in France must be 18K? I have owned pens with 14K nibs that weren't manufactured in France but must have been sold in France. Parker, Cross, Aurora, Montblanc pens. From the 1950s to the present day.

I think what farmboy wrote is self-explanatory:

 

"you can't call a 14K object solid gold, it must be 18K or higher"

 

Is not forbidden to use 14kt gold, but you cannot call it solid gold.

[rwilsonedn]

To the OP's question: the difference in feel between the 14K and 18K nibs will depend primarily on the mechanical design of the nib, and secondarily upon the other materials in the alloy and how the alloy is treated. The difference in gold content by itself is almost immaterial. You can't predict softness, flexibility, color, or much of anything else about a nib just by knowing it is 14K or 18K. The only way to know the difference between these two nibs would be to buy them both, try them, and hope that individual manufacturing variations aren't larger than the design differences.

ron

[FriendAmos]

The excellent Spanish company FPNibs offers #6 nibs in either 14K or 18K for a strikingly similar price. In US dollars it's $74.69 and $80.12.

 

This doesn't make sense to me, since 18K is 1.29 times the gold content of 14K. (I think.)

 

 

Are you assuming that almost all of the price is accounted for by the gold content? I doubt it. I imagine that most of the price is in the labour of turning a piece of gold into a nib + various expenses + allowance for a profit margin.

 

Put another way: If you melted both a 14 #6 nib and an 18K #6 nib and and flogged the tiny balls to your local jeweller, how much would you get?

 

Or to put it another way, you want to apply your 1.29 factor to the part of the price that is due to the materials, not to the total price.

Edited June 8, 2017 by FriendAmos

[Bo Bo Olson]

I'm an expert on 18K , my only 18 K nib is a nail.....and nails are nails...one gets a better deal with steel.

Rest of rant deleted.

 

What about writing them and asking what flex the nibs have? And if they have that 14 K one in the old fashioned regular flex. Perhaps you can get lucky and get it in 'true' regular flex.

[lurcho]

I'm an expert on 18K , my only 18 K nib is a nail.....and nails are nails...one gets a better deal with steel.

Rest of rant deleted.

 

What about writing them and asking what flex the nibs have? And if they have that 14 K one in the old fashioned regular flex. Perhaps you can get lucky and get it in 'true' regular flex.

 

Actually, Bo Bo, you're being modest. I think you are an expert.

 

But this thread, and another similar one running concurrently, are rather turning me away again from gold of any stripe, and back to good-old HPS.

[Jerome Tarshis]

I think what farmboy wrote is self-explanatory:

 

"you can't call a 14K object solid gold, it must be 18K or higher"

 

Is not forbidden to use 14kt gold, but you cannot call it solid gold.

 

It seems that my question wasn't sufficiently explanatory. I understand what FarmBoy wrote. But laws are enacted in response to real events in the real social world. I would like to know what those events were.

 

Today there does not seem to be any general tendency to describe nibs as being of solid gold, even if they are 18K nibs offered to the French. Waterman.com says 18K, not "or massif." The long-established shop Mora Stylos says 18K, as do the offerings on French Amazon and such other European sellers as Novelli, iguana sell, and La Couronne du Comte.

 

I do not doubt that some evil events happened in the past to make such a law seem necessary. But I live in the United States, and if the true crux of the Stavisky affair was the notorious Stavisky offering a 14K nib as solid gold, followed by universal outrage, I in my ignorance do not know about it. And would like to reduce my ignorance.

[sidthecat]

My only 18k nib is a treasure.

If memory serves, pure gold is 24k, so 14k by weight would be more than half gold. And pure gold would be unusably soft.

[Owsley]

Performance aside, there is just something nice about having an 18K nib, isn't there?

Edited June 13, 2017 by Owsley

[langere]

I like the Sailor 21k nibs - though they are nails, at least the two I have! (I kinda like nails - sorry Bo Bo.)

 

Erick

[jmnav]

I think what farmboy wrote is self-explanatory:

 

"you can't call a 14K object solid gold, it must be 18K or higher"

 

Is not forbidden to use 14kt gold, but you cannot call it solid gold.

 

On one hand, in France it used to be required for a gold object to be called gold to be at least 18K, mind you not "solid gold" but just "gold" like in "here, this is a gold ring". Of course this made for nibs destined to French market to be at least 18K gold or else they couldn't call it a "gold nib". This also implicitly answers the question about 14K or 18K nibs: it doesn't matter, or else there would be a significant difference when you compare the same model from same age 18K or 14K, which is not the case (of course in the long run it does make a difference for the maker: going 14K instead of 18K means you get the gold for a nib out of 4 basically for free).

 

On the other, I'm not so sure if that's still the case: France is part of the EU so it might be the case that this law is no longer enacted (I don't know).

[captain1796]

There is so little actual difference in the weight of the gold between the 2 nibs that the cost is negligible. That's the difference in price. The 18k nib is 75% gold vs 14k at about 58% gold. So look at the total weight of a nib and you'll see what I mean. I tend to like the way 14k nibs feel on paper vs the 18k nibs. They seem springier to me where the 18k feels softer and more buttery. It's personal preference and has a lot to do with the additional alloys an individual manufacturer uses for the balance of the metal content. At the end of the day it comes down to the accuracy of the grind, the alignment of the tip and tines more than the gold content. A good nib meister can make a steel nib just as good as gold. The gold was originally used because the ink woukd never corrode the nib. So use what you like.