Nib Issues On My Pelikan 140 Xxf Nib?

[HeyNat]

I have just received my Pelikan 140 with a xxf nib,inked it up and started writing.As I wrote the was like any other xf nibs I have written in,but the horizontal strokes bearly put ink down.Furthermore,whenever I did a fast horizontal stroke it would splat out some ink.I need help plss!

Edited June 3, 2017 by HeyNat

[jar]

Don't write fast. Use less pressure. Check the alignment.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Who ground the nib to a XXF?????.....in it's the very first time I've ever heard of XXF in a Pelikan, much less a '50-60's. I have heard of EF.....not that I chase narrow nibs. By me F does well enough....the nibs then are 1/2 a width narrower than modern.

 

It is a semi-flex nib....if it was a EF, I'd expect a 3 X tine spread only....which you have........and that 3 X is a max...not a do a lot.

Semi-flex is not a superflex nib. Please read my signature.

 

What ink?

What paper?

[HeyNat]

Who ground the nib to a XXF?????.....in it's the very first time I've ever heard of XXF in a Pelikan, much less a '50-60's. I have heard of EF.....not that I chase narrow nibs. By me F does well enough....the nibs then are 1/2 a width narrower than modern.

 

It is a semi-flex nib....if it was a EF, I'd expect a 3 X tine spread only....which you have........and that 3 X is a max...not a do a lot.

Semi-flex is not a superflex nib. Please read my signature.

 

What ink?

What paper?

 

Rhodia lined notepad,and J.Herbin Bleu Nuit

Edited June 4, 2017 by HeyNat

[HeyNat]

The seller of the pen said the nib was really rate. The nib doesn't also show the size of the nib so I'm not so sure what to think of it...

[Bo Bo Olson]

I was under the impression in both my 140's have the nib marked not the pen, that 140's nibs were marked....so should say EF or M or what ever that nib was before it was ground to XXF.

Mine could be younger 140's.....if your nib is not marked the pen 'must' be.

Unless the nib comes from an older pen and is in a younger body.

 

Ink and paper is good.

 

Check the Pelikan subsection thread to see what Sargetalon says.

[HeyNat]

Would it help if I try spreading the tines with a thin brass sheet to increase flow?

[KellyMcJ]

For what you undoubtedly paid for the pen, I don't think I would try altering it. Others may disagree but I'm tempted to say if it's not right, you should contact the seller before you do anything. If it still doesn't work, and you've messed with it, you are probably stuck with it.

 

Have you tried flushing the pen, and using different ink? Those are the first two things you should try before doing anything to the nib or feed.

[HeyNat]

For what you undoubtedly paid for the pen, I don't think I would try altering it. Others may disagree but I'm tempted to say if it's not right, you should contact the seller before you do anything. If it still doesn't work, and you've messed with it, you are probably stuck with it.

 

Have you tried flushing the pen, and using different ink? Those are the first two things you should try before doing anything to the nib or feed.

I have tried flushing the pen with pen flush,and I've tried a more lubricated ink.But I've found that if I angle the pen at a certain angle,the tines overlaps and makes a "click" noise. I've also looked at the tines,and their definitely way too tight and it's probably what's

causing the horrible ink flow.

Edited June 5, 2017 by HeyNat

[Oobly]

If you could post a couple of good pictures of the nib (one of the top surface, another of the tines from the front at least), then we could give you more information. I have a number of 140's, 400's and 400NN's with various nibs, so may be able to help identify the issue.

 

I suspect there's a tine alignment issue, but I'm also very interested in the nib sizing as the only original 140 nib that I'm aware of that could be considered XXF is the ST nib.

[HeyNat]

If you could post a couple of good pictures of the nib (one of the top surface, another of the tines from the front at least), then we could give you more information. I have a number of 140's, 400's and 400NN's with various nibs, so may be able to help identify the issue.

 

I suspect there's a tine alignment issue, but I'm also very interested in the nib sizing as the only original 140 nib that I'm aware of that could be considered XXF is the ST nib.

Here are some photos from my phone.I didn't have a loupe on me at this time,I hope this will do...

[KellyMcJ]

Ack!!!! Those tines are misaligned badly!!!!!

[HeyNat]

The to be tend to over lap on each other then re-a line with a very scratchy writing experience.I don't know what to do,help pls!

[KellyMcJ]

I'm far from a nib expert so I'll let someone else weigh in. If it's not a known easy fix, I'd be contacting the seller because that is NOT right and you shouldn't pay that kind of money for a pen that arrives in that condition, no way.

[Oobly]

Yup, the tines are misaligned. You can sort this out yourself if you're both gentle and brave If you do try, use only fingers and fingernails. I'd start with squeezing the shoulders of the nib towards each other to flatten out both tines a little, then proceed to gently press whichever tine looks more out of position in the correct direction. The right amount of pressure can only be judged by trying, do just enough to get it to bend a very small amount and repeat until they're aligned. You can judge the actual bending point and put your fingernail behind to support the tine as you apply pressure.

 

Also, that looks like a genuine very late model 140 EEF nib... Pretty rare, in my experience. Nice pen.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Do you have a loupe?...10x with good glass or a lighted 40 X Chinese....same power.

A honking big magnifying glass is nowhere near strong enough....not even 1 inch thick...2.5cm.

 

If not.....See if you can borrow one from a jeweler for a few seconds. Even a 6 power eye jeweler's eye loupe will do...in it fits the eye. See which tine is up and which is down.

 

With your thumb nail....from the start of the breathing hole on the nib, press down on the up tine down until it is just under the 'down' tine for two to three seconds, look through the loupe, two to three times looking each time. It should be aligned. If not repeat. Look again. It should not need a third time.

 

Your thumb is in the way to see if anything was written on the nib.

Looks EF to me......German nibs were 1/2 a width narrower than modern.

From that era my 790's Gehas are pen body marked not nib marked, and my EF looks like yours.

Nib or pen body should be marked....not that body marking is accurate in nibs could have been exchanged or replaced over the decades.

 

Grumble...now to find an ink for it. I don't normally use EF, but now it's out of the fancy glass topped cherry wood pen case......

I normally don't use EF nibs in they are too narrow to shade.....

DA...De Artamentis Aubergine, a dark purple. Well lubricated, not a shading ink.

 

Do post your pen, it will sit lower in your hand a tad...if you hold it lightly like a featherless baby bird. Do hold the pen behind the big index knuckle.

 

If you write with a heavy hand....in it is semi-flex, it will write to an F or even an M ..if you are Ham Fisted enough.........yes, I can talk. I use to be ham fisted.....many here were.

 

Holding it before the knuckle like a ball point will be scratchy....it has a small sweet spot and was not a KEF with a ball on top of the nib as some nibs were made in that era for pencil holders... like modern 400/600 nibs which are made for ball point users.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[rwilsonedn]

It may be helpful to go back to jar's initial comments: slow down, a lot, and use no pressure at all on this nib until after you have it writing properly. It will do no good to align the tines if you are pressing so hard that they are overlapping and then clicking back into place as you write.

ron

[Oobly]

To Bo Bo: You can see the tops of the letters in the last photo, looks like an EEF to me I have yet to see another, so I'd consider it quite rare. It's worth keeping in mind, however, that all the nibs of that era were finish ground by hand and one person's EEF could have been anothers EF or even F. Also, with use the tipping will tend to wear to a larger size. I have a couple of "EF" nibs that write with a lovely smooth Medium line.

 

I really like the 140, 300, 400, 400N and 400NN vintage Pelikans. I have only found one with a nib that doesn't have at least some flex (I tend to avoid manifold and document nibs), and most are "semi-flex", according to my personal scale. The hard nibs are usually marked with a "D" in front of the other sizing letters and quite often have double breather holes with a short tine cut to the first hole. I happened upon one with neither of these features (a pre '54 marked EF with small letters), just my luck.

 

My favourites so far are pre 1954 OB and OM nibs. So much character.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Oobly

[Bo Bo Olson]

Could be you are right.....good sharp eyes you have. And EEF is rare....that would be the first I saw and never heard of Pelikan EEF before.

So finding the sweet spot with a stubbed EEF is going to take some effort.

 

I just inked my Geha EF for the first time in 5 or so years, in I seldom use an EF and when I do for editing I use my 1745...it don't spread it's tines as easy. It surprised me I got a real thin line...my Hand got lighter....wow. But it will write to an M or an F with no great effort.

 

I figure all one can hope for is to be with in 1/2 a size...then each company has it's own standards. Ron Zorn has a great thread where he shows at Sheaffer's American Factory, (Janesville/Ft. Madison?, one was Parker) with tolerance it was quite possible for one nib the same size to be a F and the next an M by the gauge. Then there is the nibs that are a hair into tolerance that no one's eye could tell if it was a skinny M or a fat F.

Semi-flex or maxi-semi-flex are easy to press into the next width up.

 

(I made a mistake when I had my Woolf's nib exchanged, I did not tell them I wanted a skinny B or middle of tolerance B.....so got a fat B=BB.)

 

The nibs of the Soennecken, MB, Pelikan, Kaweco, Osmia and Geha are stubs in that era so has little tipping as is. I was use to the American Bump Under tipping, so thought some shade tree mechanic had attempted to stub the nibs, in there was so little tipping; but that was normal for that era.

 

(I do have a nails Nail, a D+M nib on one of my '50's 400's. It was part of a lot at a live auction, or I'd never bought it. I've no interest in an H nib either. I had tried someones Steno nib I was trans-mailing and was very disappointed it was only regular flex and not superflex as others are so lucky to have.)

 

I have a couple Osmia OBB/BBL (L for left foot, R for right foot) as they call their obliques that are just a small flat pad of Osmium in the middle of the nib; looking like little to no tipping out to the edges. Again not wear but how they designed the nib.

 

I have 26 semi-flex nibs from that era....counting a couple from the '30's; the rest are post war & 50-60s. 15-16 maxi-semi-flex. In both flexes I have 13 obliques. In OBB, OB, OM & OF I have them by pure luck in 15&30 degree grinds. Sometimes I think the added grind could well have been done at the fabled corner pen shop. Having had nail and regular flex obliques, know it's well worth the while to get real obliques from that era.

 

I do have a couple German '60's semi-flex 'no names' with the American Bump Under. And a '50's English made Parker Doufold Jr semi-flex , that has the American Bump Under too.

 

I have a 605, that was a BB until I had it made 1.0 stub; but my early '50's semi-flex B is a more interesting nib on that pen.

 

OB is a great nib to start in Obliques of that era, it is a writing nib, not a signature nib of modern days, being 1/2 a width narrower than modern......more a fat M than an OB. The sweet spot is wide enough that there is no real problem in learning how to hold an oblique.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[HeyNat]

Thanks for the help and information guys! Ill go try out your suggestions sometime this week, Ill be reporting back what i will do to my pen.

Thanks again!