The "wet Noodle" Conundrum

[Wxman2000]

​So I have a question in regards to flex. I've put together a Jinhao X750 with a Brause Rose nib, and the combination is simply amazing. However, I'm curious since I always hear about the "wet noodle" nibs of yore...how would this combination I'm using compare to a vintage gold nib "wet noodle"? Would I benefit from trying out one of these old flexible pens, or is what I'm using just as soft and flexible and fun?

[Andrea_R]

a brause nib is fleier than as if not more than any wet noodles

[FarmBoy]

Based on the last few repairs I have had on wet noodles I guess the term is code for cracked nib and not worry about comparisons between apples and lobsters.

Edited May 21, 2017 by FarmBoy

[Bo Bo Olson]

Depends on which brause nib...I've got some that are stiff, some that are middle 'Flex'....ie more than Wet Noodles.

I don't have the Fabled Gillette 303-404, I do have Hunt 99-100-101 and they make a 'Wet Noodle' look uncooked. They flex when there is an earthquake in California and one lives in NY.

[Goudy]

A vintage gold nib will be tipped with iridium, making it smoother on the paper and less likely to snag on the upstrokes. Also, it won't corrode like a modern steel dip nib. It's a good way to go if you want to add flex to your everyday handwriting without dipping.

 

But, as Andrea_R said, the Brause Rose has a more expressive flex on the downstrokes than any vintage gold noodle you're likely to find. It's a better nib for calligraphy, and can be easily replaced when it breaks or rusts.

[Cryptos]

I think it is important to note that although there are areas of overlap, calligraphy and writing are often quite different things with differing goals.

 

To confuse things further, if you have a light hand then the relative smoothness between a bare sharp dip pen and an iridium tipped gold nib (of similar sharpness) becomes significantly less obvious.

 

Cost difference between the two are huge. And springing a dip pen is less painful.

[ac12]

Cost difference between the two are huge. And springing a dip pen is less painful.

 

MUCH MUCH less painful.

Edited May 22, 2017 by ac12

[rwilsonedn]

I think FarmBoy makes an excellent point that needs further discussion. (Sorry if this is a hijack ...) Most of the really flexible vintage nibs I've come across were not really flex--they were cracked in a way that caused the tines to give quickly under pressure. (This does not apply to expensive nibs from reputable vendors, of course--they can tell the difference at once.) Sooner or later such nibs break altogether. I don't know how much of this is just the aging process in vintage nibs and how much is the modern fad for pushing a nib to the point of failure to see how much you can flex it for the Web cam. (And then quietly selling the pen on after you realize what actually happened.)

By the way, I think E_o_C also makes an excellent point that if you are using the correct absence of pressure, even the finest dip pens are not scratchy--they ride on a bearing of ink until you press on them. At least this is true until they have worn down so much that they have developed a chisel edge, but then you can quickly dress them on micromesh and get back to work.

My advice would be to stick with the dip pens, get a pen holder or two, explore some vintage dip pen nibs, and lose the Jinhao--having a feed and converter in there just makes everything more complicated, and gives the dip pen nib a good chance of rusting into a mess.

ron

[Bo Bo Olson]

There was a thread here that was illuminating. Waterman in the '30's where most of us are looking for 5-6 or 7 X tine spread, were looking at a 3 X tine spread with great tine bend.

It could well be that we are over-stressing nibs designed to only give 3 X, plus grand tine bend.

 

I strive to stay under my assumed max by a width....do BB instead of BBB.

That is of course still more than a 3 X tine spread.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[Wxman2000]

Well, it sounds like I'm better off with what I have them. I also use these nibs with dip holders, but the Jinhao is fun too for a portable solution. And it's a whole lot cheaper than any of the vintage options.

[Honeybadgers]

If you want to step up your game on the portable flex - zebra comic G nib, noodlers konrad or ahab, use a cutoff wheel on a dremel and shovel out that feed, or even better, get a ranga pen and use the spare feed it comes with in the konrad/ahab. super reliable, perfect flow that doesn't railroad until you're pushing the 4mm mark, hairline thin with no pressure, smooth enough to use in daily writing. Only downside is you should use well behaved inks like sailor jentles if you need them to dry anytime this week.

 

Just don't put it away wet after cleaning and a nib should last months.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Honeybadgers

[Randal6393]

Can't see the point, Honeybadgers, of reworking a zebra G nib to where it is as flexible as a Brause Rose nib, setting it up a # 6 nib fountain pen, and making an everyday practice pen that requires cleaning every day. A lot of work when I want to just write.

 

My solution is to use an Esterbrook 357 (about the same size and flex of a Leonardt Principal) in a stock Ahab with a stock Ahab feed, heatset the pen (after a good scrub with toothpaste), and fill with a neutral fountain pen ink, Noodler's Black in this case. Now I have a pen that shows no rusting or wear and can be used everyday for practice. Can be washed out and cleaned every week or two, when I run out of ink. Note: the Ahab (or Konrad) standard feed is of ebonite and heatsets easily with the boiling water method.

 

Only problem I have is that the pen still starves for ink and requires a very slow writing speed to produce decent copperplate.

 

Enjoy,

[ReadyFireAim]

I'm curious since I always hear about the "wet noodle" nibs of yore...

 

It's all hype.

After spending several thousand on vintage & modern gold I'm using 2 pens now.

 

I bought one for $25 & the other for $75.

They both have steel nibs that cost between $2-$5 each.

 

There is a lot of misinformation out there.

Gold flex was a horrible disappointment & an expensive lesson learned.

[Cryptos]

Wow! That's a brave statement. I totally agree, though I have been stomped on by the self-appointed righteous vintage nib people for saying similar things.

[AmandaW]

...After spending several thousand on vintage & modern gold I'm using 2 pens now.

I bought one for $25 & the other for $75.

They both have steel nibs that cost between $2-$5 each.

 

That's dedication to a quest! I'm never going to be in a position to repeat your experiment, but would love to find something with a little flex to add interest to drawings. So... what's worth getting?

Edited May 28, 2017 by AmandaW

[Goudy]

 

That's dedication to a quest! I'm never going to be in a position to repeat your experiment, but would love to find something with a little flex to add interest to drawings. So... what's worth getting?

 

Since no-one's mentioned Desiderata pens so far in this thread, I'll do so now.

 

They're built around the chrome or titanium plated steel Zebra G dip nibs. Not wet noodles (in the sense they require conscious effort to flex) but very expressive. The nibs will corrode eventually but are easy and cheap to replace.

 

Read the reviews here and elsewhere online to see if that's what you're looking for.

[ReadyFireAim]

 

Since no-one's mentioned Desiderata pens so far in this thread, I'll do so now.

 

Yep,

That's my $75 one.

 

The other one is an Ahab ground to XF and modified to be super flexible & then stuffed into a Singularity with a widened feed channel.

(You can make the Nemosine Singularity an eye dropper easily)

 

For $25 you can have a pen that will blow away any gold nib pen that I have ever used & you won't have the rusty nib problem of the Zebra-G.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/240492-noodlers-ahab-ease-my-flex-mod/

 

Added note...

The Zebra-G is a level of flex beyond the modified Ahab

The advantage of the Ahab is that it is more user friendly in that it will work on a lot of cheap paper without shredding it & it doesn't rust.

 

If you want to try real flex, buy a box of GOLD Zebra-G nibs ($20) and a cheap holder ($6).

Buy the Desiderata later if you like the Zebra-G nib (that is what this pen uses)

Don't get the chrome ones because they rust too quickly.

I like any any Private Reserve ink in Ebony (Blue, Green, Brown, Purple) but that is the least important thing right now & I'm not saying that they are the best.

 

For $56 plus shipping you could have both and a fantastic flexy good time.

Edited May 28, 2017 by Bordeaux146

[Honeybadgers]

Can't see the point, Honeybadgers, of reworking a zebra G nib to where it is as flexible as a Brause Rose nib, setting it up a # 6 nib fountain pen, and making an everyday practice pen that requires cleaning every day. A lot of work when I want to just write.

 

My solution is to use an Esterbrook 357 (about the same size and flex of a Leonardt Principal) in a stock Ahab with a stock Ahab feed, heatset the pen (after a good scrub with toothpaste), and fill with a neutral fountain pen ink, Noodler's Black in this case. Now I have a pen that shows no rusting or wear and can be used everyday for practice. Can be washed out and cleaned every week or two, when I run out of ink. Note: the Ahab (or Konrad) standard feed is of ebonite and heatsets easily with the boiling water method.

 

Only problem I have is that the pen still starves for ink and requires a very slow writing speed to produce decent copperplate.

 

Enjoy,

 

No offense intended, but I disagree completely and don't think you have ever tried it.

 

I've gone four months without cleaning one of these nibs, just using it every day or two, with the same color of ink, to see how long it lasts. I've had to smooth it once in that time for about 30 seconds. And that's writing hundreds of pages of notes.

 

The only thing you have to be careful of is leaving the pen with ink in it for a week or so, or putting the pen away after cleaning with the nib in place, where residual moisture that doesn't move will start to eat the nib. As long as ink is flowing over the nib on a regular basis, I've NEVER had an issue. The only nib I've wrecked was when I left it inked for a week without using it. For that reason, I do suggest the gold nibs, but I have a pack of ten that I want to use up first and don't see myself running out of nibs within the next two years. of heavy use.

 

You also need to be mindful of the ink you use, going for something with good surface tension (no lamy blue/black, rouge hematite, or waterman harmonious green in my experience) the best inks I've used are sailor jentle, all colors just dry fast, don't feather, and don't smudge, along with most having gorgeous shading. of all 6 jentles I own, they all work perfectly (Grey doesn't work great because it just lays down enough to be black, but the dry times and surface tension are great) and if you're writing notes, maybe don't use smudge prone/slow drying like noodlers apache sunset or golden brown, but everything else apart from the noodlers polars (which feather and punch through any paper) have worked fine. I'm not sure I'd try baystate in it, since that ink can actually eat metal on its own, but as long as ink is flowing over the nib regularly, it doesn't sit there and form iron oxide, so any metal it's taking off is slow and steady enough that I've yet to have an issue with the nib that is in the below writing sample.

 

The modification of the nib to fit takes ten seconds and is so unbelievably forgiving in how far you squeeze it that you almost cannot physically screw it up. All you need to do is have the back end opened up the barest amount and it slides in like it was meant to be, and oversqueezing it, it still fits easily.

 

The stock ahab feed really needs shoveling out, the perfect shape and diameter is a dremel cutoff wheel. Hardly a dangerous proposition, they cost a couple bucks to replace.

 

This nib is every bit the wet noodle that any fountain pen nib can manage, and its shape really plays nicely with the shoulders of the ranga feed (of which you get a spare when you buy any ranga direct from india, even the cheaper eyedropper 3c's) acting as hefty reservoirs that control the flow of ink better than the thinner fins of the ahab feed.

 

Again, my thought is that anybody who is dismissive of this combo has either never tried it or never bothered tuning it, because once you've figured out which fin on the ahab feed lines up with the big obvious gunsight notch on the nib and heat set it, you have a pen that is as easy to own as anything else. I do highly recommend a ranga feed, I do think it's PERFECTLY designed for use with this nib, but the ahab feed will work if you take the time to open it up.

 

Here's a writing sample, it's only railroading because it was on its last drops of ink. It really doesn't railroad and the feed keeps up with all but the fastest, hardest flexing you can push, and refills instantly without ever needing priming.

 

I do think the ahab is a better pen than the konrad for a zebra G only because the konrad cap winds up touching the nib, which can draw ink out. I had to remove the inner cap liner, but it still occasionally forms a bead from nib creep and starts to seep into the cap. The ahab cap has no such issues, so that's the one I'd suggest, but since my konrad is already dedicated to it, that's what it is. Maybe I'll buy another ahab soon and make it into the comic pen. I do love my noodlers' pens.

 

 

If I ever run into Matt from the pen habit at one of the pen meets, I'm going to give him mine to try out, because the amount of misinformation around this pen is just crazy.

Edited May 28, 2017 by Honeybadgers

[Randal6393]

Well. Honeybadgers, I just looked at your video with the pen you modded. Looks great and gives you flex with a large supply of ink. Do you have any photoes or videos of the nib feed? You say just shovel out the Ahab and that doesn't translate too well for me. I use hand tools and don't have a dremel, so don't have a good visual of the mod on the feed. I will try a Zebra G, or maybe a Brause Rose. (The usual Zebra G is stiffer than the Brause Rose. So I don't write as well with it as I do the Brause.) We are all breaking new ground with this and success is the only measure. Your mod seems to meet with a fair amount of success.

 

I haven't tried the setup you describe, of course. Was concerned mostly with the rate of deterioration on the nibs. And your nibs seem to last a fair amount of time. Will have to do more trials on this.

 

Best of luck, and enjoy,

[AmandaW]

Thankyou Honeybadgers. I do have a titanium zebra G and an Ahab on hand so they will be getting together for some fun! I'm a little concerned about messing it up because both take 3 or 4 weeks to replace if I need a another.