Celluloid Care

[AD43]

I live in Singapore, which is very humid, so I was wondering how Ishould care for celluloid as I am planning to buy.

[AD43]

Helloooooooo?

[KellyMcJ]

I have no clue about the Celluloid, but I bet you'll get more response if you post in one of the general forums instead of this region specific one. More people will see it.

[Andrea_R]

praying for a start

oh and use the research feature of the forum as well, the topic has been already discussed

[Mastiff]

I have not been using fountain pens long enough to comment but I don't think you should worry about the humidity in your country (yes I have been to Singapore numerous times!).

 

There are many many FP users in SE Asia, and there are many pen shops in Malaysia and Singapore. The shops I had visited displayed/stored their pens (including celluloid) without any special 'care'.

 

I think you might see a negative result in the long run (decades) but not noticeably in years. I think the issue is more exposure to direct sunlight. Maybe keep the pens in a relatively dry room (air conditioned- I know it is air conditioned everywhere in Singapore, 24/7, 365 days/year.....) protected from too much sunlight?

 

Unless you are buying a $50,000+ pen do not worry. Wait, may be you are (!).

[shahrincamille]

I have a Montegrappa Historia LE (Parchment), a beautiful pen made of nitrocellulose that suffered a severe case of celluloid rot.

 

I first noticed that something's on when I discovered that the metal sleeve next to the knob on the pen's converter had developed a nasty greenish crust on it. A few months later the plastic "neck" of the converter (on the section end, just above the metal trim on that end), had completely snapped off which explains why the pen wouldn't fill after I took it out of storage to use. The metal trim of that doomed converter itself had sort of fused to the section, and I had to use a plier to pry it out. No big deal, I thought - just replace the converter then. So I put in an new Schmidt K1 converter, this time an all-plastic one without any metal parts, stored the pen back in the showcase in my study, and promptly forgot about the pen for the next 1 year as work demands started taking an even bigger control of my life.

 

After about a year of so after that I "rediscovered" the pen and decided to use it. It was then I noticed that the cream-coloured barrel had developed a crazing pattern on it, and on top of that the pen had emitted a sourish, vinegar-like odour and a "sticky" sensation on handling. I tried filling the pen...and it wouldn't fill. So opened up the barrel, and I was shocked to find that the brand-new, never filled, all-plastic Schmidt converter had suffered the same fate as its predecessor; it had completely detached into two separate parts! It was then that I also noted that the metal parts of other pens kept in the vicinity of this pen started pitting and corroding themselves! The Historia's metal parts (clip, section, cap band, finials on both the cap's top and blind cap) and nib were unaffected, however, as these parts were made of sterling silver and 18K gold.

 

The final blow, however, came at the end of last year when the barrel finally snapped in two. It was so brittle by then that it broke while I was just holding it in my hand. I'm still in denial mode, but I'm thinking of salvaging the metal parts and nib of this pen and send it over to a pen turner for a new barrel and cap, as long as it's not made of nitrocellulose...

 

 

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee187/ugakgedik/IMG_0581.jpg

 

The pen as it originally was.

 

 

 

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee187/ugakgedik/IMG_20170603_081332_1.jpg

 

This is what it's like now

 

 

 

 

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee187/ugakgedik/IMG_20170603_081630.jpg

 

The original converter that simply snapped off. Note the ugly green corrosion covering up the metal sleeve of the converter.

 

 

I believe this tragedy happened due to a few factors:

 

1. I kept this pen in a cabinet with a glass door, which I had kept closed all the time. So there was hardly any air circulation and the outgassing from the degrading celluloid affects the other pens nearby.

 

2. I have 2 airconditioners in my bedroom, one for the sleeping compartment, and another for the adjacent study where this cabinet where I keep my pens are located. Problem is the study is located on the outer portion of my house next to the balcony, which in turn is exposed directly to the sun in the evenings, and I was busy and only enter the study after I came home from work, which is after sunset. Since that part of the room was unused during the day, the a/c too wasn't put on until at night. My wife does not enter my study and only uses the sleeping compartment (and that area's a/c) of the room. So it was exposed to considerable heat during the day.

 

I believe the heat and poor circulation conspired to kill my Historia. I had now completely isolated this pen from the others, and also any metal and plated items. As for my other celluloid pens, I had by now put them on a pen tray and placed them in the (much) cooler sleeping compartment of my bedroom, or simply fill them up and use them as EDCs.

 

 

Since Singapore and Malaysia are neighbours and share the same hot, humid, tropical climate, I hope you really take good care of your celluloids.

 

 

 

 

Shahrin

[pen2paper]

In your humid climate regions do you have access to absorbent materials, desiccant crystals, packets, bags that wick moisture from room or storage environment?

These along with airy storage, away from direct light and heat source may be helpful.

[jchch1950]

Four of my celluloid pens have been destroy in Thailand. Two omas, one visconti and one Pelikan. i send two of them

to Italy to repair,Only the nibs were save. They were in a safe box with a special dehumidifier . In another forum they

wrote that it was a problem with certain italian materials .

[watch_art]

If the material isn't cured long enough before the pen is made, this is a risk. Also good air flow is important. There is a thread around here somewhere from a few years ago that goes into greater detail about all of this.

[jchch1950]

Yesterday after reading this post I went to look for my Montegrappa Historia and found some corrosion and

the piston frozen. I will try to get in contact with Montegrappa about this problem.

Edited June 4, 2017 by jchch1950

[Mastiff]

Scary stories indeed...

[pen2paper]

If the material isn't cured long enough before the pen is made, this is a risk. Also good air flow is important. There is a thread around here somewhere from a few years ago that goes into greater detail about all of this.

I tried yesterday to find this discussion for you.

There are several, including one where Omas briefly changed their packaging to a material that itself presented a problem in contact with their celluloid.

A knowledgeable long time pen collector purchased this pen, but kept it unopened in its original packaging, in a moderate environment, safe for his other collection. Upon opening the celluloid had obvious damage. As noted above, possibly a mix of curing, definite contact with packaging material, and the final insult, celluloid with metal parts encased in an airless environment necessary to permit plastic outgassing. The logic here is gas = moisture, moisture corrodes metal, which then adds to the chemical soup destabilization, further deteriorating-shifting the plastic's composition.

 

Your discussing costly modern pens, so do contact the manufacturers with photos.

 

Do spend some time reviewing storage issues for various plastics, rubber, metal. The articles here will include links from vintagepen's David, expert who explains this in relation to pens far better than myself - in 2 sentences + a link ;-) . (I know other old celluloid object storage issues). See online museum articles on plastics specific to Celluloid Conservation Care to understand how correct environment + absorbent and/or dry non-acidic products, keeps this beautiful material in pristine condition for a century +++. Living in a hot humid region is an issue, but 6 months in a dry cool region, stored in an airless, acidic environment, or zip-type bag can ruin fine materials that fast. It's a hard and sometimes expensive lesson to learn.

[farazqamar]

Four of my celluloid pens have been destroy in Thailand. Two omas, one visconti and one Pelikan. i send two of them

to Italy to repair,Only the nibs were save. They were in a safe box with a special dehumidifier . In another forum they

wrote that it was a problem with certain italian materials .

 

It is very sad to hear about your loss...and I am very worried about my pens. I live in Dubai where it is extremely hot and very very humid too... can you please tell which pens specifically did you loose? thanks.

 

-F

[vermillex93]

I have a Montegrappa Historia LE (Parchment), a beautiful pen made of nitrocellulose that suffered a severe case of celluloid rot.

 

I first noticed that something's on when I discovered that the metal sleeve next to the knob on the pen's converter had developed a nasty greenish crust on it. A few months later the plastic "neck" of the converter (on the section end, just above the metal trim on that end), had completely snapped off which explains why the pen wouldn't fill after I took it out of storage to use. The metal trim of that doomed converter itself had sort of fused to the section, and I had to use a plier to pry it out. No big deal, I thought - just replace the converter then. So I put in an new Schmidt K1 converter, this time an all-plastic one without any metal parts, stored the pen back in the showcase in my study, and promptly forgot about the pen for the next 1 year as work demands started taking an even bigger control of my life.

 

After about a year of so after that I "rediscovered" the pen and decided to use it. It was then I noticed that the cream-coloured barrel had developed a crazing pattern on it, and on top of that the pen had emitted a sourish, vinegar-like odour and a "sticky" sensation on handling. I tried filling the pen...and it wouldn't fill. So opened up the barrel, and I was shocked to find that the brand-new, never filled, all-plastic Schmidt converter had suffered the same fate as its predecessor; it had completely detached into two separate parts! It was then that I also noted that the metal parts of other pens kept in the vicinity of this pen started pitting and corroding themselves! The Historia's metal parts (clip, section, cap band, finials on both the cap's top and blind cap) and nib were unaffected, however, as these parts were made of sterling silver and 18K gold.

 

The final blow, however, came at the end of last year when the barrel finally snapped in two. It was so brittle by then that it broke while I was just holding it in my hand. I'm still in denial mode, but I'm thinking of salvaging the metal parts and nib of this pen and send it over to a pen turner for a new barrel and cap, as long as it's not made of nitrocellulose...

 

 

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee187/ugakgedik/IMG_0581.jpg

 

The pen as it originally was.

 

 

 

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee187/ugakgedik/IMG_20170603_081332_1.jpg

 

This is what it's like now

 

 

 

 

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee187/ugakgedik/IMG_20170603_081630.jpg

 

The original converter that simply snapped off. Note the ugly green corrosion covering up the metal sleeve of the converter.

 

 

I believe this tragedy happened due to a few factors:

 

1. I kept this pen in a cabinet with a glass door, which I had kept closed all the time. So there was hardly any air circulation and the outgassing from the degrading celluloid affects the other pens nearby.

 

2. I have 2 airconditioners in my bedroom, one for the sleeping compartment, and another for the adjacent study where this cabinet where I keep my pens are located. Problem is the study is located on the outer portion of my house next to the balcony, which in turn is exposed directly to the sun in the evenings, and I was busy and only enter the study after I came home from work, which is after sunset. Since that part of the room was unused during the day, the a/c too wasn't put on until at night. My wife does not enter my study and only uses the sleeping compartment (and that area's a/c) of the room. So it was exposed to considerable heat during the day.

 

I believe the heat and poor circulation conspired to kill my Historia. I had now completely isolated this pen from the others, and also any metal and plated items. As for my other celluloid pens, I had by now put them on a pen tray and placed them in the (much) cooler sleeping compartment of my bedroom, or simply fill them up and use them as EDCs.

 

 

Since Singapore and Malaysia are neighbours and share the same hot, humid, tropical climate, I hope you really take good care of your celluloids.

 

 

 

 

Shahrin

 

And this scaressss me, I'll be moving all my pens to Malaysia this summer after graduation. Including the whole set of Omas Paragon and several other celluloid Milord. Have you tried using the silica? I've bought a few and keep it with my pens, but since UK is dry and cold at the moment, so I can't be sure if that's working or not.

[pen2paper]

 

And this scaressss me, I'll be moving all my pens to Malaysia this summer after graduation. Including the whole set of Omas Paragon and several other celluloid Milord. Have you tried using the silica? I've bought a few and keep it with my pens, but since UK is dry and cold at the moment, so I can't be sure if that's working or not.

Were it me, I'd contact David at vintagepens for specific pen related suggestions such as: an absorptive layer that captures the outgas, and which desiccant is preferable.

 

There's lots of info at museum conservation sites (including a general one below) but David can advise pen specifics, such as whether a pen should be disassembled and stored in what for transport and then for daily or long term storage in your new humid + hot environment.

https://www.nps.gov/museum/publications/conserveogram/08-04.pdf

[jchch1950]

omas arlequino,omas transparent barrel,montegrappa historia,visconti red.

[jchch1950]

sorry I forgot Pelikan 400 of the 50's in a light brownish color.

[vermillex93]

Were it me, I'd contact David at vintagepens for specific pen related suggestions such as: an absorptive layer that captures the outgas, and which desiccant is preferable.

 

There's lots of info at museum conservation sites (including a general one below) but David can advise pen specifics, such as whether a pen should be disassembled and stored in what for transport and then for daily or long term storage in your new humid + hot environment.

https://www.nps.gov/museum/publications/conserveogram/08-04.pdf

 

Oh these information is so useful! thanks! I'll take some time to read, I'm actually storing my pen individually in their original box at the moment, but thinking of moving into a pen display box, that holds 12-15 pens, and put silica in it, but I'm afraid of the outgas since all the pens are celluloid, and not sure if it's a good idea storing my pen this way in Malaysia.

[farazqamar]

omas arlequino,omas transparent barrel,montegrappa historia,visconti red.

 

ok. I am going to be very careful. I have a omas milord arco brown and a number of omas vegital resin pens. i also have a visconti ragtime and voyager that might be in danger. i hope the newer pelikans are fine.

[sidthecat]

The Wahl forum spends a lot of energy on celluloid issues: the Doric line is notoriously frangible. I'll have to keep my fingers crossed.