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Vintage "smaller" Pens


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What changed?

 

As a long time user of more modern fountain pens, I'm wading into vintage pens, now. There's a lot of great info on the technical intricacies of filling systems, the hard rubber to celluloid transition, and nifty nibs. One thing I haven't found: What was it that led so many manufacturers (perhaps all) to offer cheaper, SMALLER versions of their pen models? Balance juniors, vacuumatic debutantes, eversharp demi's . . .

 

Were they for pockets? Were they marketed toward women (debutante in particular is a feminine term, though they don't look much different)?, or did some people just like smaller pens? If the last is the case, what changed? Not that all pens today are the same size of course, but you won't see a half price miniature carene or duofold. I'll grant that pelikan makes a range of sizes of their souveran, and the smaller ones are cheaper, but they seem the exception, not the rule. The fact that they have a whole range is different, too; in my admittedly nascent career of browsing online sales, it seems the vast majority of pens are either oversized fat models ... or smurfs.

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I think they were targeted to women and/or children. My mother-in-law gave me get childhood FP, which I restored with helpful advice from folks here at FPN, and it is definitely tiny. I have big, but not huge, hands, and writing with that pen was an interesting challenge.

fpn_1497391483__snailbadge.png

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Styles changed over time. Some of the ringtops were intended as vest pens and still others were both jewelry and functional, women wearing them on a ribbon (sautoir) around their neck so the pen was handy. Then again there is a range of hands sizes with different pens being more appropriate for a small hand as apposed a huge sized hand. There were some huge vintage pens but on average I think pens were generally smaller than they are today. Perhaps it is again fashion or attitude. Todays Mont Blanc 149, the Pelican 1000, and Edison pens and others are large, impressive, perhaps status symbols.

 

You might check this out:http://www.throughouthistory.com/?p=1395.

Edited by linearM
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:W2FPN:

 

Hi,

 

Easy on the Smurfs please.

 

When I went exploring older pens, it seemed to me that there was a divide between personal carry pens and the at-the-desk pens.

 

I too am curious about the branching-out toward 'oversize pens'.

(Yes, I have an MB149)

 

Myself personally prefer pens with a goodly girth, though I alter my grip to accommodate slender darlings such as the Parker Slimfold, and Waterman's 52 1/2v.

 

Bye,

S1

Edited by Sandy1

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

 

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Interesting question. As linearM points out, there were small ringtop pens intended to be worn on a chain or ribbon, on a gentleman's vest or about a lady's neck. These were perhaps a fashion issue as much as a convenience. There were also very small non-ringtop pens like the CS Dinkies, intended I think either for a vest pocket or as a novelty.

But in general writing instruments were small. The most familiar writing instrument of the day in the early 20th century was still the dip pen holder or the pencil, both of which had quite small diameters. People associated fine writing with thin, elegant instruments. They associated large writing instruments with with young children, with laborers (eg carpenters' pencils), or with important men who had something to prove.

Tastes have changed. Some would say that taste in pen sizes has, as have many other tastes, become vulgarized. But another point is that in earlier times children were taught from the beginning to hold a pen in a way that didn't stress the hand, and to write without pressure. (That's about the only option when you are learning with a dip pen.) So as adults they would be unlikely to experience the issues that many people have today with holding and using a thin pen. They would have learned a technique from the beginning that was intended for thin pens.

ron

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Remember even into the 50s and 60s the most common writing implement was still the wooden pencil and they were used until they were simply too short to hold anymore. I remember the very first traffic ticket I ever got (parking is a no parking zone) was written with a pencil and I got the carbon copy.

 

My Website

 

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Remember even into the 50s and 60s the most common writing implement was still the wooden pencil and they were used until they were simply too short to hold anymore. I remember the very first traffic ticket I ever got (parking is a no parking zone) was written with a pencil and I got the carbon copy.

 

 

Hi,

 

Very interesting.

 

When I've trolled through some of my family's correspondence of that era, almost all are in ink, though a few (like my G-Uncle Bill) used a typewriter. Perhaps pencil was more for ephemera / extemporaneous not-at-the-desk content?

 

When researching Co. archives, the cartographers seemed to be keen on India ink (based on the sheen of the shellac/varnish.) Other field notes are varied, perhaps due to using whatever was to hand : no Sharpies or Space Pens.

 

Bye,

S1

Edited by Sandy1

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

 

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What changed?

 

As a long time user of more modern fountain pens, I'm wading into vintage pens, now. There's a lot of great info on the technical intricacies of filling systems, the hard rubber to celluloid transition, and nifty nibs. One thing I haven't found: What was it that led so many manufacturers (perhaps all) to offer cheaper, SMALLER versions of their pen models? Balance juniors, vacuumatic debutantes, eversharp demi's . . .

 

Were they for pockets? Were they marketed toward women (debutante in particular is a feminine term, though they don't look much different)?, or did some people just like smaller pens? If the last is the case, what changed? Not that all pens today are the same size of course, but you won't see a half price miniature carene or duofold. I'll grant that pelikan makes a range of sizes of their souveran, and the smaller ones are cheaper, but they seem the exception, not the rule. The fact that they have a whole range is different, too; in my admittedly nascent career of browsing online sales, it seems the vast majority of pens are either oversized fat models ... or smurfs.

 

Well... If you look at desks an chairs from back in the day, they were smaller then now. Look at cars from back then, they had big seats in the front. The examples are counter intuitive, but there could be two reasons.

 

A) Our hands are getting bigger.

 

B) Because FPs are status items, you have more people trying to make pens with more 'pzazz'. Could that include size?

 

I like your question... Something to think on...

 

EDIT: That Emoji is accidental. I can't seem to get rid of it.

Edited by AL01
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Good thoughts by all.

 

One thing to note: I don't think we can simply say that "pens were smaller back then." Perhaps overall they were, but there were plenty of large pens (original duofold was and is a "big red pen"). And what specifically interests me is that in addition to a standard size pen model (only rarely actually called that), there were usually oversized versions and undersized versions.

 

Today's interest (obsession?) with size explains certain things: Why vintage oversize pens cost a fortune and the virtually same pen, smaller, costs a relative pittance. It explains why modern fountain pens tend to be large status symbols. It may even explain why modern pens are NOT offered in smaller, cheaper sizes. It does NOT explain what they were going for with mini-pens back then. A "lady patricia" was obviously marketed toward women, a ringtop was intended for either jewelry or vest pocket (thanks for the article, very interesting), but a smaller sheaffer lifetime balance was simply a . . . smaller lifetime sheaffer balance. If they were marketed as "for a lady's hand," or "perfect for a pocket," or even as "get this great pen cheaper, just smaller," I haven't encountered any such ads. It almost seemed "expected" that when someone came out with a pen, it would be offered in different sizes. I've seen threads on here and web pages out there by noted "pen personalities" that almost make a sport of keeping track of different size models (along with colors, clips, etc). But I haven't seen one yet that gets into the "why?"

 

It's not just that pens are "larger" now (though they may be). It's more the uniformity.

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There's also the vintage pen period of the 1960's and 1970's, where PILOT designed some of the smallest fountain pens you can find, not specifically targeted to children. There's the innovative pocket-pen design, with small body and long cap where it's very pocket friendly when capped but enlarges to average pen size when posted. PILOT made the iconic MYU series having an all steel body with integrated nib. The more traditional nibs were featured in a variety of pocket-sized pen body variations (mostly from the Elite series).

 

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t154/MYU701/pens/Pilot/Pilot-Pocket-Pens_capped1.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t154/MYU701/pens/Pilot/Pilot-Pocket-Pens_uncapped1.jpg

 

But their telescoping pens were even smaller. The telescoping pen (pictured below) actually features a sliding section, whereby the pen can be sized to fit almost any hand comfortably. As you can see in this photo, there is a metal sleeve on the body, where the front section is tucked inside. The photo is showing the pen uncapped without the body extended. When capped, the pen is 11.2 cm (4 3/8") in length. Posted without extension is 13 cm, but when the section is pulled all the way forward the pen reaches 14.4cm (5 5/8"). Pilot styled the plastic in a variety of colors (black, white, red, green) and sometimes accompanied it with a zogan (inlaid precious metal, like gold or silver) having a variety of shapes ("U", diamond, and long diamond).

 

PILOT_telescopic-pen-red.jpg

 

There's also the PILOT Birdie, which shares the same length both capped and posted with the telescoping pen, but having a much narrower body.

Edited by MYU

[MYU's Pen Review Corner] | "The Common Ground" -- Jeffrey Small

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Parker Duofold Junior, & Ladies model.

Esterbrook SJ model

Stipula Passaporto.

Sheaffer "whatchamacallit"

Kaweco something

Auf freiem Grund mit freiem Volke stehn.
Zum Augenblicke dürft ich sagen:
Verweile doch, du bist so schön !

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There's also the vintage pen period of the 1960's and 1970's, where PILOT designed some of the smallest fountain pens you can find, not specifically targeted to children. There's the innovative pocket-pen design, with small body and long cap where it's very pocket friendly when capped but enlarges to average pen size when posted. PILOT made the iconic MYU series having an all steel body with integrated nib. The more traditional nibs were featured in a variety of pocket-sized pen body variations (mostly from the Elite series).

 

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t154/MYU701/pens/Pilot/Pilot-Pocket-Pens_capped1.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t154/MYU701/pens/Pilot/Pilot-Pocket-Pens_uncapped1.jpg

 

But their telescoping pens were even smaller. The telescoping pen (pictured below) actually features a sliding section, whereby the pen can be sized to fit almost any hand comfortably. As you can see in this photo, there is a metal sleeve on the body, where the front section is tucked inside. The photo is showing the pen uncapped without the body extended. When capped, the pen is 11.2 cm (4 3/8") in length. Posted without extension is 13 cm, but when the section is pulled all the way forward the pen reaches 14.4cm (5 5/8"). Pilot styled the plastic in a variety of colors (black, white, red, green) and sometimes accompanied it with a zogan (inlaid precious metal, like gold or silver) having a variety of shapes ("U", diamond, and long diamond).

 

PILOT_telescopic-pen-red.jpg

 

There's also the PILOT Birdie, which shares the same length both capped and posted with the telescoping pen, but having a much narrower body.

 

Are the older Elites made out of a different plastic then the newer ones?

 

Parker Duofold Junior, & Ladies model.

Esterbrook SJ model

Stipula Passaporto.

Sheaffer "whatchamacallit"

Kaweco something

 

I own an SJ! I personally have smallish hands.

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There really weren't oversized pens before the 20's as a general rule but, there were exceptions. You rarely find a big Boston and they never made anything bigger than a #6. Sheaffer initially didn't have a #8 in their first catalog so the #8 became a new standard for large but it was exceptional rather than normative. When Sheaffer got radite in 1924 all of their ads switched to oversized pens and, I think the 20's had a sustained campaign for oversized. Vest pens/ ringtops were out by the 30's but came back as a tuck-a-way in the 40's. The ball point seems to have made pens thinner as in the bic stick and Sheaffer Targa straddles what they call the "Classic" which is truly a classic #2 sized pen of the teens and the "slim" of the modern ball point. A lot of the modern makers make huge pens but, pens aren't intended for all day use generally - so flashy and jewelry in attitude. A certain amount of it is likely just fashion as Sheaffer downsized to the TM TD in 1950 and the snorkels remained thin until the end of the decade when we popped back up the the thick PFM. When they were just selling pens to contain ink (1890's to 1910's) and write they were typically a 5" long pen with an under 1/2" diameter cap mostly called a #2 but 3's and 4's aren't much larger. If you collect vintage you know how common all of those sizes are with the big pens being exceptional. The big hands argument is weak as modern ball points are abnormally skinny compared with early pens - somehow many people are capable of manipulating these. While the original natural sized pen was a #2 and a modern ballpoint much thinner the cause there may lie with the ink being delivered. Ballpoints deliver a lot of writing with a very thin cartridge and this would not have been enough capacity for early fountain pens.

 

Roger W.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm told that the truly wee ringtop pens were used by fashionable ladies to mark dance cards. The diminutive size would show that it wasn't a work-related object (uselessness being a sign of high status - see Chinese foot-binding, above).

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For me it is FIT.

I grew up in the slimline era which culminated in the Cross Century series ball pen and mechanical pencil, which were about the diameter of a standard wood pencil.

I have smallish hands, and I prefer an Esterbrook LJ rather than the standard J.

I do NOT use a pen if the body is over 13mm in diameter. IOW any of the oversized/FAT pens.

And I prefer it about 11mm or smaller.

One of my favorite pens is a Parker Classic, body is 9.5mm in diameter.

 

And yes you are correct, it isn't easy to find slim pens today.

San Francisco Pen Show - August 28-30, 2020 - Redwood City, California

www.SFPenShow.com

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For me it is FIT.

I grew up in the slimline era which culminated in the Cross Century series ball pen and mechanical pencil, which were about the diameter of a standard wood pencil.

I have smallish hands, and I prefer an Esterbrook LJ rather than the standard J.

I do NOT use a pen if the body is over 13mm in diameter. IOW any of the oversized/FAT pens.

And I prefer it about 11mm or smaller.

One of my favorite pens is a Parker Classic, body is 9.5mm in diameter.

 

And yes you are correct, it isn't easy to find slim pens today.

Fortunately there are still many great slim pens out there and often at very reasonable prices. Here are a few I really like:

 

Aurora Hastil

Aurora Marco Polo...the Marco Polo came in both steel nib versions and 14K gold nib versions.

ST Dupont Classique

ST Dupont Gatsby

ST Dupont Lady

Waterman Executive

Waterman CF

Waterman Concord

Waterman Lauréat

Waterman Preface

Waterman Gentleman

Waterman Maestro

A Brazillion versions of the Parker 88

Parker "75"

Ferrari da Varese Yesterday

Ferrari da Varese Savant

Yard-o-Led Standard

Yard-o-Led Corinthian

Graf von Faber Castell Guiloche

Graf von Faber Castell Classic

Caran d'Ache Madison

Caran d'Ache Ecridor

Caran d'Ache Varius

Caran d'Ache Hexagonal

Montblanc two and three digit pens from the 50s-70s

Montblanc Noblese/VIP/SlimLine family of pens derived from the Aurora Hastil

 

My Website

 

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The Parker Vector and the Sheaffer School Pen also fit the bill.

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