Jump to content

The Fountain Pen Network uses (functional) cookies. Read the FPN Privacy Policy for more info.  To remove this message, please click here to accept the use of cookies


Registration on the Fountain Pen Network

Dearest Visitor of the little Fountain Pen Nut house on the digital prairie,

Due to the enormous influx of spammers, it is no longer possible to handle valditions in the traditional way. For registrations we therefore kindly and respectfully request you to send an email with your request to our especially created email address. This email address is register at fountainpennetwork dot com. Please include your desired user name, and after validation we will send you a return email containing the validation key, normally wiithin a week.

Thank you very much in advance!
The FPN Admin Team






Photo

Fountain Pens For Beginners: Twsbi Eco V Lamy Safari V Kaweco Sport

newbies beginners fountain pens comparisan twsbi lamy kaweco

  • Please log in to reply
32 replies to this topic

#21 AD43

AD43

    Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 193 posts
  • Location:Guess!
  • Flag:

Posted 23 April 2017 - 08:10

Fatter TWISBI niibs, I find are aweful. never tried Kaweco, But tried Lamy, Good , but I dont like the design. My first fp was a sheaffer vfm.



Sponsored Content

#22 AD43

AD43

    Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 193 posts
  • Location:Guess!
  • Flag:

Posted 23 April 2017 - 08:13

For a beginner, and a student beginner especially, the largest consideration is price. I have had all the pens mentioned (except the Al-Star and the Loom, but have borrowed both multiple times from friends) and they are all good pens. Even the Petit1 is a good pen! For "credentials", I have convinced more than two dozen people the past year to buy their first fountain pen. As far as I know they all still use the pens. Hashtag penvangelism.

 

My default answer to people who want to buy their first pen is the Pilot Metropolitan. Why? A lot of people (especially at my age; '90s kid) are used to ballpoints and gel pens. I know exactly one person in my life who uses a rollerball pen. This means most people are used to thin line widths which, in my experience, only the Pilot Metropolitan <F> can offer. I've used the EF nib of Lamy and TWSBI and both are demonstrably thicker than a Pilot Fine.

 

The logic behind suggesting a pen within the prospective convert's comfort zone is that you don't just want to suggest a good pen to someone, you want the person to keep using that pen and abandoning the use of non-fountain pens. Easing them into it helps.

 

Back to price. In my country, a Safari is three times more expensive than a Metro. The Safari does not come with a converter. Even if you want to switch to a Con-50 or Con-40, the Safari is still more than twice as expensive—I hate it). In my country as well, the Eco (about $40.00 here) is two dollars away from being four times as expensive as a Metro. This is a huge difference because even if we "sell" fountain pens as being built to last, most first-time buyers are perfectly fine using a $1 Pilot G-tec. They absolutely love the G-tec. A Metropolitan is fifteen G-tecs. To stretch the comparison a bit, a Porsche 911 is just five Toyota Corollas. :lol:

 

A super budget pen would be a Preppy, a Petit1, or a V-Pen. The cap of the Preppy breaks with regular cautious use and a Petit1's clip will break-off. A V-Pen is too cumbersome to refill unless you have one where the feed can be pulled-off (mine can't, even with pliers).

 

Now, why would you not buy a Pilot Metropolitan? Besides an uncommon problem of some people reporting that it ejects ink into the cap for no reason, the most obvious are the large step and the design. For quite some time, I didn't get a Metropolitan because the design didn't speak to me. They wrote well enough but not well enough for me to get over the weird middle band. I just couldn't understand why the background of the middle band was different in shade to the the rest of the pen (in MR1), and later on the animal bands just horrified me (in MR2). Eventually I got used to the design and I have three of them right now (I've owned five in total). Then there's the step. From all the pens mentioned this has the largest step. I understand why the step is there but I still prefer a pen that is streamline uncapped versus a pen that is streamline while capped. I look at pens when they are ready to use, not when they are to be kept in storage. I have since been able to modify my grip when using this and similar pens such that they are no more uncomfortable than other pens (my fingers sort of cling to the ledge of the step).

Now, why would you get a Safari instead? While the nib width and quality control is a bit of a lottery and the inner cap does tend to break down, both problems are easily dealt with. The biggest draws for me is the easy exchange-ability of nibs matched only by Kaweco among current pens. Of course, depending on the market a Lamy nib costs more than a Metro... The section/grip of the Safari is also talked about a lot. It really depends on your grip and it's important that you be able to borrow a pen first before you buy it. There are also people who buy the pen after trying it in the store and then sell it a week later because it's too big or too heavy but these are unusual people. :lticaptd: For me, the Safari is easier to hold than a Metro even if I don't hold pens the way Lamy wants me too (only one of my fingers is "where it's supposed to be").

 

Why don't you get an Eco? The grip is the easiest to use and the capacity will not leave you wanting. To me, the largest barrier is again the price. You must be a great fan of the demonstrator look and the piston capacity if you want this pen where I live. I see that in the US it is the same price as a Safari so that is not a consideration for you, of course. I do like the screw cap (I wish all pens were screw caps) but if you post your pens this has the worst posting experience among all of the pens mentioned. I'm sure it's secure but it doesn't inspire you about its security. I also think it looks the worse among all the pens. I actually like how the Preppy looks more than an Eco. The all clear version looks really greats though, up until you ink it and ink inevitable gets on and behind the inner cap...

 

The Eco performs at a comparable rate to the Safari (again, I think they all write well albeit slightly differently) and it may come down to personal preferences. Do you value nib-swapping more than a piston's capacity? Do you prefer a screw cap to a snap cap? If you want to experiment with unusual inks you may be better off staying away from the Eco. There's too much worrying involved in keeping the barrel pristine.

 

Is anyone still reading?

 

Alright, a Kaweco Sport is alright and I really like the look. Besides the possibility of a poor nib (happens to all manufacturers anyway), you have to be open to dealing with unavoidable barrel wear. Unavoidable! You also need to post the pen to write with it. Another thing is that if you want to use cartridges on a transparent Kaweco you should know beforehand that it looks pretty lame. A lot of people complain about proprietary cartridges and there was a recent post here about someone making a permanent international cartridge; Kaweco needs to make a proprietary cartridge that fills the length of the Kaweco barrel. Short international cartridges look terrible! :wallbash:

 

A Loom is great and I really want to buy one save for two worries. First, the cap looks really bad and there is something off in the way it clicks shut. It is the pit of cap-shutting feel, at the opposite end of the Prera. Another is that it there is a risk of parts incompatibility. It's standard international but not all cartridges and converters work on it. A friend bought a Faber-Castell converter from the same store and it didn't fit.. :glare:

 

The Prera is great but do you want to pay that much more for a the same writing end as a Metropolitan. You also need to post the pen to be able to write with it. If you're Kawhi Leonard don't even consider it.

 

For the less mentioned pens a Parker IM I think is the most expensive mentioned here. I have one. The clear coat has come off in spots and it's very ugly because of it. I think it's a good review pen because it's so easy to clean even if you can't remove the nib or the section. I would not recommend it. It's a $10 value to me. I also have a Parker 45 and it's good, smooth, and easy to disassemble. I think it's also the one with the most "character" among all the pens. I would caution you as to nib width though. I bought an NOS "45" that had a fine nib and wrote as thick as my Medium Safari. Very smooth writer but it needs an IG ink to be at a width I can use with. Otherwise I can only use it to underline my readings.

 

Are you trying to make something simple quite evil?



#23 antichresis

antichresis

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 560 posts
  • Location:Quezon City
  • Flag:

Posted 23 April 2017 - 08:34

 

Are you trying to make something simple quite evil?

I'm sorry, I don't understand the comment?


Hero #232 Blue-Black is my Waterman Florida Blue.

 

Your Kilometrage May Vary (#ykmv), a Philippine blawg about ink and fountain pens.


#24 mitto

mitto

    Ancient Artifact

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,201 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 23 April 2017 - 14:18

I would recommend a Parker 45 with 10k/14k gold nib. Preferably a flighter.
Khan M. Ilyas

#25 mitto

mitto

    Ancient Artifact

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,201 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 23 April 2017 - 14:19

Double post.

Edited by mitto, 23 April 2017 - 14:19.

Khan M. Ilyas

#26 Arkanabar

Arkanabar

    Ain't I a stinker?

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,762 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 12 May 2017 - 18:25

You should buy two pens, absolutely.  You want one that's already ready already, when the first runs dry.

What are you using to write with right now?  What do you like about it, e.g. its length, girth, weight, line width, color, material?  What would you change about it?

 

eta:  Get your pens one at a time.  As you get yourself fountain pens, carefully ask these same questions about each.    Give yourself at least a month with each one, to make sure you're sure of the answers.

Somebody always suggests the Pilot Metropolitan.  If you like a moderately heavy brass pen with a narrow section, and don't mind a sharp step between section and barrel, go for it.  If you would like something with a little more girth than a #2 pencil or Bic Crystal, or less weight, consider the Pilot Kakuno (if you don't mind that it has no clip).  If you like the narrow section, but not the weight or sharp step of the brass barrel, look around for a Pilot 78G.  If you must have a clip and are willing to post your pen, consider a Prera.  It has nearly the girth of the Kakuno, but it's rather short.  I'd go for a medium point; Pilot's fine is quite fine indeed.  

Somebody always suggests the Lamy Safari.  If you already like really long pens with a narrow, faceted grip section, go for it!  But if you think you might not like having your hand forced into the long finger under tripod grip, keep looking.  (If you want to find out without risking $25-30, get a Jinhao 599, which has an identical section and runs a mere $2-4 on Amazon.)  I have NEVER gotten along with the Safari's grip section.  You can sometimes find a Lamy Logo for not much more, and it uses the same easily swapped nibs as the Safari, while being round.

I'm the major proponent of the Platinum Plaisir (again, in medium, which is 0.5mm tipping).  They can be had from Amazon for $15 or less.  It's made of anodized aluminum, so it's lightweight and tough.  It has a 10mm section, which is close to average for girth.  And it has the same excellent seal as the oft-recommended Platinum Preppy (noted for writing on the first stroke even after sitting in a drawer for months at a time) without the easily cracked cap.  I refill Platinum cartridges with 3ml disposable polypropylene bulb pipettes.  Platinum converters should be lubricated with a little bit of pure silicone grease, or they will not last long.  Platinum nibs tend to have a little more feedback than the others.  The older ones had matching finish on the nib and clip, and it flakes off the nibs over time.  The newer ones have plain stainless/chrome clips and nibs. 

I keep meaning to get myself a TWSBI of some sort, but it just keeps on not happening.  Their customer service apparently equals or exceeds Pelikan's on the Tradition and Souveran lines, which is what I use as my benchmark.  And the ECO is about 1/4 the cost of an M200.

 

The Rosetta Explorer is not likely to suit you, being available only in medium point.  Lamy's other school-grade pens have rubber section covers, which tend to break down into something rather nasty after a few years.  The same goes for Online Pens' young writers lines (College and Campus -- talk about really bad search engine optimization!).  Chinese pens can be pretty good, or pretty bad.  I've had one abhorrently dry nib (eventually remediated by a lot of arm writing with too much force), and one essentially fall apart.  I have been pleased with my Jinhao Bulow X750, and the Hero 616s I've used, and since flow improved, with my Baoer 388.  If you decide to get Chinese pens for the weight, you might check out HisNibs.com, as the proprietor inspects nibs and corrects visible issues before shipping, typically adding about $10 to the unit price thereby.


Edited by Arkanabar, 12 May 2017 - 18:43.


#27 SenZen

SenZen

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,893 posts

Posted 14 May 2017 - 15:55

Advantages of Lamy Safaris: nice, consistent nibs, unless you start tinkering with them (or more precisely, if I start tinkering with them), easy to take apart in case you are using an ink that gunks them up, like J Herbin Rouge Hematite; I just got Diamine Ancient Copper, which has a similar reputation, knowing that I'll use it in a Lamy Vista and in case of problems I can easily clean it.

 

I have a horrible experience with a Kaweco sport, but a sample of one isn't significant, other people seem to like them. I like the TSWBI concept but I'm not sure if they're reliable, which is my number one parameter for a pen...


"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."

B. Russell

#28 ErrantSmudge

ErrantSmudge

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,240 posts
  • Location:San Francisco, CA, USA
  • Flag:

Posted 15 May 2017 - 02:52

Somebody always suggests the Lamy Safari.  If you already like really long pens with a narrow, faceted grip section, go for it!  But if you think you might not like having your hand forced into the long finger under tripod grip, keep looking.

 

Somebody always disparages the grip on the Safari.  Many people love the Safari's grip, and it helps make sure the nib is properly oriented to the paper.  If you think you might like having a pen that accommodates your grip, definitely consider it.

 

I own several Safaris and a TWSBI Eco.  I like both pens and you can't go wrong with either one.  I don't have a Metropolitan or the Kaweco Sport, but that's partly because I'm not really into their designs.  


Edited by ErrantSmudge, 15 May 2017 - 02:56.


#29 pajaro

pajaro

    Amblin along like I had good sense.

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,727 posts
  • Location:Tecumseh, MI
  • Flag:

Posted 15 May 2017 - 03:07

 

Somebody always disparages the grip on the Safari.  Many people love the Safari's grip, and it helps make sure the nib is properly oriented to the paper.  If you think you might like having a pen that accommodates your grip, definitely consider it.

 

I own several Safaris and a TWSBI Eco.  I like both pens and you can't go wrong with either one.  I don't have a Metropolitan or the Kaweco Sport, but that's partly because I'm not really into their designs.  

+1.  I completely agree.  Safaris are colorful and fairly simple, and the quality is very high.  Nibs are very easy to change.  Easy pen for beginner and experienced writer.


"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

They took the blue from the skies and the pretty girls' eyes and a touch of Old Glory too . . .


#30 Bisquitlips

Bisquitlips

    Bisquitlips

  • FPN Supporter - Platinum

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,556 posts
  • Location:Everywhere I go...there I am!
  • Flag:

Posted 15 May 2017 - 12:24

I have them both and really have an affection for the TWSBI. The demonstrators are beautiful when filled with ink and easy to maintain.  The Lamy Safaris are easy to swap out the nibs so you can experience everything from XF to 1.9 italic for about $7.00 per nib choice.

 

You cant go wrong with either.

 

I do see where you have chosen to go with the pilot which is another excellent choice, but in the future you are likely to want to add another pen to the stable.  The TWSBI and Lamy either would be a rockin' second pen.

 

Welcome to the lovely, wacky, insane, colorful, world of us!


 
 
 
 
 
 

 

 

#31 MuddyWaters

MuddyWaters

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 848 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 16 May 2017 - 12:59

The pilot metro has by far a better nib and feed than the Kaweco and also better than the Lamy. It writes more wet while the Lamy is frustratingly dry. Using the metro with cartridges or a real converter is the only way to make it as reliable as a Safari though, the latter of which holds a good amount of ink especially with cartriges.

 

You might want the Lamy if laying down a drier ink line is more convenient at school. I would also trust it more while carrying with me at school. I consider the metro to be an inexpensive "desk" pen


Link to a post about ergonomics I made: http://www.fountainp...with/?p=4179072


#32 gryphon1911

gryphon1911

    Stub Nib Addict!

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 465 posts
  • Location:Central Ohio
  • Flag:

Posted 02 June 2017 - 14:39

Sometimes you just will want to spend a little more and get something you don't need to replace.

 

My recommendations would be:

 

Use the cartridges for ease of refill in the field.  It just limits the color selection you have (unless you can clean in the field)

 

Lamy Studio (silver with the black section because it is less slippery than the other colors metal sections)  Solid writer, dependable and with the snap cap makes for easy deployment for note taking.  Cap posts securely.

 

Platinum Plaisir (I find the fine nibs here very smooth - much preferred to the Pilot MR nibs).  Again, another snap cap design and they look more "premium" than the Preppy.  Cap posts securely.

 

TWSBI Eco - massive amount of ink in the piston chamber.  I LOVE the Diamond 580, but have come to appreciate the reliability of the Eco.   Have one in medium and it writes well.   Cap posts securely.   You are limited to one ink for the duration, but as others have mentioned, you'll be writing for quite some time with it.  You can also have 2 pens with different inks going.



#33 pablorey

pablorey

    Dipped Only

  • Member - Silver

  • Pip
  • 7 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 02 June 2017 - 18:33

+1 for Faber Castell Loom, Parker IM and Pilot MR (mr uses international cartriches, metropolitan Pilot Propietary)

 

As a "muletto" a Pelikan GP (or Grand Prix) works fine... or just a good ballpoint pen

 

If you want your "muletto" to be really small, may be a Pilot Petit os (relativately expensive Parker Esprit) or in BP world there some Zebras that are tellescopic... never used a Kaweco but everybody say nice things about them


Edited by pablorey, 02 June 2017 - 18:35.






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: newbies, beginners, fountain pens, comparisan, twsbi, lamy, kaweco



Sponsored Content




|