Jump to content

Is It Time For An Iron-Gall Thread?


Nibbler

Recommended Posts

I'm in the market, so to speak, but there's quite a few IG inks out there now and I wondered it it was time for an updated thread?

 

I'm liking the look of KWZ, but there are only a few reviews out there. I love Diamine, but not sure about registrars. MB gets love from many people and so does R&K.

 

One think I'm looking forward to is an ink that 'develops' or changes colour whilst it dries/oxidises etc. I know there are some things one should know about behaviour - although the downsides may have been exaggerated?

 

Anyway, I've never used one, but would like to try one - what are your thoughts?

Why an IG ink? Are there any that are superior to Pilot Blue-Black? If there are I would like to try it.

All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 66
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Nibbler

    10

  • Moonshae

    7

  • wallylynn

    4

  • inkstainedruth

    4

Why an IG ink? Are there any that are superior to Pilot Blue-Black? If there are I would like to try it.

 

The KWZI IG ink colors are more varied than just blue black, but whether that is superior or not is subjective. They have a blue black IG, but I haven't gotten it yet, nor do I have the Pilot, so I can't say which seems to be superior to me.

fpn_1497391483__snailbadge.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Diamine Registrar's is probably my favourite ink, but it doesn't really have a wow-factor change in colour as it develops. It just goes a little bit darker."

 

Ok, that's probably enough for me to buy a bottle. Anyone's favourite ink has to be worth a shot. Thank you.

 

Ironically, Diamine Registrar's is probably my least favorite IG ink. It oxidizes to a washy blue-grey. So you get great shading but that's about it, IMO. Also, it's *really* dry.

OTOH, I LOVED most of the KWZI IG inks I've tried. They're a little wetter than some IG inks are, so that may be a consideration. I didn't like IG Red but that was the color -- it oxidized a little more blood colored than I care for. I'm still trying to make up my mind about IG Turquoise, which shades like crazy, but I had been hoping for a more accessible replacement for Pharmacist's Turkish Night (which is just gorgeous) -- but IG Turquoise goes darker. But IG Violet #3, IG Blue Black and IG Blue #3 are absolutely "keeper" inks IMO, and IG Mandarin is also very nice.

Also, don't overlook Akkerman #10 Ijzer-Galnoten (which goes almost black when it oxidizes); and the the R&K IG inks, Salix and Scabiosa (I'm not as wild about Scabiosa as some people here are, but Salix is nice in that it stays more blue than some IG blue-blacks).

But I keep my fingers crossed that Pharmacist will reappear at some point with a new freshly brewed batch of Turkish Night. I give people fair warning that if that happens they should NOT get in my way because I will happily trample over them.... B)

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

inkstainedruth, you seem to have every single ink that has ever existed, and I envy you! Actually, not really, because it's already a challenge deciding which pens to fill with which inks based on my usage. I have too many inked pens, but I don't want to be without the options. Having a massive selection would only make the decisions more difficult. It's like the scene in Moscow on the Hudson, "Coffee, coffee, coffee!" The choice becomes overwhelming. But actually I do envy your collection. :)

fpn_1497391483__snailbadge.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Platinum have just produced "Classic Ink" for fountain pens. I have a bottle but so far only dared use it with a dip pen. To quote from the advertising:

"It is a water soluble ink made by blending ingredients derived from plants such as tea leaves with iron. It penetrates the paper and solidifies due to oxidation; therefore, it is suitable for preserving the documents for an extended period of time as it is highly resistant to light and water. Due to such characteristics the ink color that is bright when you start writing becomes gradually black as it gets oxidised which lets you enjoy the progress of changes in colour."

It says "with iron" rather than "iron gall" specifically, but it seems to be the same idea.

I've only owned it for less than a week (got it in Ito-Ya, Ginza's best stationery shop) but have an ongoing test on some lines of ink drawn with it. 10 minutes after drawing the line (with Sepia Black) it can be more or less removed from the paper with a wet paint brush. Six days later, although there is some blurring around the edges, it does seem to have bonded with the paper.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm a big fan of Diamine Registrar's ink - but, I have to flush pens after a few fillings with DR, otherwise I will get flow issues.

 

With good pen hygiene, it's a great ink. And it does flush out simply and quickly.

 

Enjoy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm 99% sold on KWZ Iron Gall Turquoise. My only concern is that it will stain my demonstrators. The color it turns after it dries is right where I want my ink.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm 99% sold on KWZ Iron Gall Turquoise. My only concern is that it will stain my demonstrators. The color it turns after it dries is right where I want my ink.

 

I have it in a TWSBI 580AL right now, but I just filled it yesterday, so I can't tell if it is staining or if it hasn't been in there too long to stain. I'll try to remember to report on this in a few days.

fpn_1497391483__snailbadge.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I have it in a TWSBI 580AL right now, but I just filled it yesterday, so I can't tell if it is staining or if it hasn't been in there too long to stain. I'll try to remember to report on this in a few days.

 

Much appreciated! If this forum has kudos or thumbs ups that we can give each other then I'll be sure to give you one.

 

The pen habit channel on youtube has a 20 minute review of this ink. I've watched it twice now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why an IG ink? Are there any that are superior to Pilot Blue-Black? If there are I would like to try it.

 

For starters, Pilot Blue-Black is not an IG ink. It's an awesome ink in so many ways, but it's not IG.

 

My only try thus far at an IG ink was a 25ml bottle of Chesterfield Archival Vault. As another has said, it developed precipitates pretty quickly. Chesterfield inks are gone from the market, and I don't really miss them. Anyway, I decided based upon that experience that IG inks were not for me.

 

But who knows, R&K Salix might change my mind, if I ever get around to trying it. I just have no reason for doing so at this time, especially given Sandy1's review of Pilot Blue-Black.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Platinum have just produced "Classic Ink" for fountain pens. I have a bottle but so far only dared use it with a dip pen. To quote from the advertising:

"It is a water soluble ink made by blending ingredients derived from plants such as tea leaves with iron. It penetrates the paper and solidifies due to oxidation; therefore, it is suitable for preserving the documents for an extended period of time as it is highly resistant to light and water. Due to such characteristics the ink color that is bright when you start writing becomes gradually black as it gets oxidised which lets you enjoy the progress of changes in colour."

It says "with iron" rather than "iron gall" specifically, but it seems to be the same idea.

I've only owned it for less than a week (got it in Ito-Ya, Ginza's best stationery shop) but have an ongoing test on some lines of ink drawn with it. 10 minutes after drawing the line (with Sepia Black) it can be more or less removed from the paper with a wet paint brush. Six days later, although there is some blurring around the edges, it does seem to have bonded with the paper.

gall is a reference to Oak Gall, which is the source of tanins. An alternate source of "ingredients derived from plants such as tea leaves."

Iron gall inks can be made from gall or other sources of tanins, but it's all the same idea - iron combined with tanins that oxidize.

 

tanin: a yellowish or brownish bitter-tasting organic substance present in some galls, barks, and other plant tissues, consisting of derivatives of gallic acid, used in leather production and ink manufacture.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

gall is a reference to Oak Gall, which is the source of tanins. An alternate source of "ingredients derived from plants such as tea leaves."

Iron gall inks can be made from gall or other sources of tanins, but it's all the same idea - iron combined with tanins that oxidize.

 

tanin: a yellowish or brownish bitter-tasting organic substance present in some galls, barks, and other plant tissues, consisting of derivatives of gallic acid, used in leather production and ink manufacture.

 

That's really interesting - I'm a forester, here in the UK and oak has tannins in it's leaves and bark - the bark was traditionally used for tanning leather, so why we've ended up with the gall as the source for ink is interesting. I suppose that they could have been collected by scribes of the past easily and they might also store well? Is there more tannin in a gall? - I don't really know...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

That's really interesting - I'm a forester, here in the UK and oak has tannins in it's leaves and bark - the bark was traditionally used for tanning leather, so why we've ended up with the gall as the source for ink is interesting. I suppose that they could have been collected by scribes of the past easily and they might also store well? Is there more tannin in a gall? - I don't really know...

Yes, apparently oak gall is a very rich source of tanins.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

inkstainedruth, you seem to have every single ink that has ever existed, and I envy you! Actually, not really, because it's already a challenge deciding which pens to fill with which inks based on my usage. I have too many inked pens, but I don't want to be without the options. Having a massive selection would only make the decisions more difficult. It's like the scene in Moscow on the Hudson, "Coffee, coffee, coffee!" The choice becomes overwhelming. But actually I do envy your collection. :)

 

Hah! But no. Not anywhere remotely close -- in fact, back when I first started hanging out here just a little over 5 years ago at this point, I think I had Quink Permanent Blue (cartridges) and maybe a bottle of Quink Black (plus some random cartridges from a Sheaffer calligraphy set, one pen from which I think might be lost in my husband's home office...). I don't think I even had either of the first two FP inks I specifically bought in bottles -- PR Purple Mojo and American Blue -- at that point (the Quink Black came in a Parker Urban set -- oh, I guess it also came with 2 carts of Black, and two of what might have been Washable Blue).

Oh, yeah, I probably also still might have had some Higgins India ink and maybe some Koh-i-noor for my Rapid-o-graphs, from back in college....

I don't even think AmberleaDavis has them all (and she's got a lot more than I do).

Sam Capote *might*....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

..

My only try thus far at an IG ink was a 25ml bottle of Chesterfield Archival Vault. As another has said, it developed precipitates pretty quickly. Chesterfield inks are gone from the market, and I don't really miss them. Anyway, I decided based upon that experience that IG inks were not for me. ...

 

I had a thought about preserving IG inks in the bottle. I think I have read that an IG ink becomes water resistant as the ferrous iron in the formulation oxidizes via exposure to air to form ferric ions that then form insolubles in reaction with the gallic (and tannic) acids. If so, then adding a small piece of pure iron to a bottle of IG ink should help keep the iron in its ferrous form which should then not form insolubles.

Edited by DavidCampen

All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Been a Platinum Blue/Black fan for a while now. This ink seemed to be the only Japanese-made iron gall ink (formulated for fountain pens) on the market. Now Platinum has introduced a whole series of ferrogallic inks in other colours. To date I've tried Cassis/Black, a lovely claret that should darken as it oxidizes.

*Sailor 1911S, Black/gold, 14k. 0.8 mm. stub(JM) *1911S blue "Colours", 14k. H-B "M" BLS (PB)

*2 Sailor 1911S Burgundy/gold: 14k. 0.6 mm. "round-nosed" CI (MM) & 14k. 1.1 mm. CI (JM)

*Sailor Pro-Gear Slim Spec. Ed. "Fire",14k. (factory) "H-B"

*Kaweco SPECIAL FP: 14k. "B",-0.6 mm BLS & 14k."M" 0.4 mm. BLS (PB)

*Kaweco Stainless Steel Lilliput, 14k. "M" -0.7 mm.BLS, (PB)

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

That's really interesting - I'm a forester, here in the UK and oak has tannins in it's leaves and bark - the bark was traditionally used for tanning leather, so why we've ended up with the gall as the source for ink is interesting. I suppose that they could have been collected by scribes of the past easily and they might also store well? Is there more tannin in a gall? - I don't really know...

I can't remember the details exactly, but I believe there's a small difference between the tannic acid and gallic acid. (and/or gallotannic acid). I think the gallic oxidizes darker and more water resistant.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't remember the details exactly, but I believe there's a small difference between the tannic acid and gallic acid. (and/or gallotannic acid). I think the gallic oxidizes darker and more water resistant.

 

Gosh, I'm learning quite a bit - what a great thread this has turned out to be. There are different types of gall on oaks in the UK (caused by different species of wasp) and I'm wondering if they're all useful for ink? It makes sense in that the tree produces tannins in an attempt not to be eaten, so it's likely that the physiological response of the tree to a wasp will produce more tannin to try to suppress it. I'm now wondering if I could try making some ink. I probably won't be putting it in the Sailor though!

 

Is there a market for galls with ink makers then? When would you harvest?

Edited by Nibbler
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why an IG ink? Are there any that are superior to Pilot Blue-Black? If there are I would like to try it.

Nothing is superior to Pilot Blue Black. ;)

 

But having said that, I picked a bottle of KWZ IG Blue #3 at the Atlanta Pen Show last week, and it has quickly vaulted into the very top tier of my favorite inks.

 

What I like most about it is that it is absolutely smear-proof on the super smooth Tomoe River paper in my journal. I also really like the rich, authoritative color, the quick dry time, and the permanence.

 

One thing though: it smells funny, and not in a ha-ha way.

Edited by BradGad

"A knifeless man is a lifeless man." -- Faroe Islands proverb

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Gosh, I'm learning quite a bit - what a great thread this has turned out to be. There are different types of gall on oaks in the UK (caused by different species of wasp) and I'm wondering if they're all useful for ink? It makes sense in that the tree produces tannins in an attempt not to be eaten, so it's likely that the physiological response of the tree to a wasp will produce more tannin to try to suppress it. I'm now wondering if I could try making some ink. I probably won't be putting it in the Sailor though!

 

Is there a market for galls with ink makers then? When would you harvest?

They're all useful, some more than others. I assume that's why it's called iron-gall ink, not iron-leaf ink, not iron-bark ink.

 

If I'm understanding your thought, the amount produced by the tree would mainly affect the amount of picking and gathering. The now-understood chemical reaction tells us that more quantity (or less quantity) of tannin is irrelevant. Whatever tannin is extraneous won't react because the other iron has already been all used up. Gallic acid results in a blacker compound than tannic acid (if i'm correct). An analogy would be copper produces green rust, and iron produces red rust.

 

 

I've been meaning to try, procrastinating for over 30 years, a rudimentary recipe: steel wool and vinegar and really strong tea (from a bunch of tea bags). I learned it on 3-2-1 Contact (PBS show magazine) decades ago as a recipe for invisible ink.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Most Contributions

    1. amberleadavis
      amberleadavis
      43844
    2. PAKMAN
      PAKMAN
      33501
    3. Ghost Plane
      Ghost Plane
      28220
    4. inkstainedruth
      inkstainedruth
      26627
    5. jar
      jar
      26101
  • Upcoming Events

  • Blog Comments

    • Shanghai Knife Dude
      I have the Sailor Naginata and some fancy blade nibs coming after 2022 by a number of new workshop from China.  With all my respect, IMHO, they are all (bleep) in doing chinese characters.  Go use a bush, or at least a bush pen. 
    • A Smug Dill
      It is the reason why I'm so keen on the idea of a personal library — of pens, nibs, inks, paper products, etc. — and spent so much money, as well as time and effort, to “build” it for myself (because I can't simply remember everything, especially as I'm getting older fast) and my wife, so that we can “know”; and, instead of just disposing of what displeased us, or even just not good enough to be “given the time of day” against competition from >500 other pens and >500 other inks for our at
    • adamselene
      Agreed.  And I think it’s good to be aware of this early on and think about at the point of buying rather than rationalizing a purchase..
    • A Smug Dill
      Alas, one cannot know “good” without some idea of “bad” against which to contrast; and, as one of my former bosses (back when I was in my twenties) used to say, “on the scale of good to bad…”, it's a spectrum, not a dichotomy. Whereas subjectively acceptable (or tolerable) and unacceptable may well be a dichotomy to someone, and finding whether the threshold or cusp between them lies takes experiencing many degrees of less-than-ideal, especially if the decision is somehow influenced by factors o
    • adamselene
      I got my first real fountain pen on my 60th birthday and many hundreds of pens later I’ve often thought of what I should’ve known in the beginning. I have many pens, the majority of which have some objectionable feature. If they are too delicate, or can’t be posted, or they are too precious to face losing , still they are users, but only in very limited environments..  I have a big disliking for pens that have the cap jump into the air and fly off. I object to Pens that dry out, or leave blobs o
  • Chatbox

    You don't have permission to chat.
    Load More
  • Files






×
×
  • Create New...