1950 Model 742 18K Solid Gold Pen And Pencil Set

[Sid2001]

I have ben tasked with selling my wives massive collection of rare Fountain Pens. I came across this set. From the research I have done I believe it is a 742 (?) solid 18k Gold Pen And Pencil Set from 1950? The barrel and cap are hallmarked .750 on the Pen as well as the pencil barrel. The engraving in the middle of the Montblanc Cap says "Montblanc Masterpiece".

I am not sure what the case is but I would guess it is bakelite. Any idea what the value of this set is? i.e. Low thousands etc?

Edited April 20, 2017 by Sid2001

[Sid2001]

[Sid2001]

[CS388]

Nice set. But, not sure if the pen is a 144? Are there no numbers on the cap ring?

 

More pictures, including the nib, would help with ID.

[Sid2001]

Cap Ring only says "Montblanc Master Piece"and the hallmark .750 Here is a pic of the nib Lower bottom tip of the barrel has the number 742 in addition to 750 18k hallmark.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Sid2001

[Sid2001]

I vaguely remember many years ago that my wife told me that the Mont Blanc museum in Hamburg might have expressed an interest in acquiring this set. Ok I did find a number on the lower tip of the Barrel 742

Edited April 19, 2017 by Sid2001

[meiers]

I don't think it's a 144. They usually carry a different nib.

More knowledgeable members will soon inform our conversation.

Edited April 19, 2017 by meiers

[jar]

I don't think it's a 144. They usually carry a different nib.

More knowledgeable members will soon inform our conversation.

IIRC it was the 744 Masterpiece. Again, working from memory. A similar one sold at Christie's for around $600.00 just a few years ago.

[Sid2001]

IIRC it was the 744 Masterpiece. Again, working from memory. A similar one sold at Christie's for around $600.00 just a few years ago.

 

The pen says 742 on it not 744

[jar]

 

The pen says 742 on it not 744

Then it is the even shorter version. The third digit indicated the length of the pen.

[Sid2001]

Then it is the even shorter version. The third digit indicated the length of the pen.

 

Ok so the one that sold at Christies was longer and was also made of 18k Gold? BTW thanks everyone for all the good info!

Oh...wait a minute here is the one that sold at Christies, it is a 744 with only the 14k gold nib, it is not the solid gold version of the barrel and cap.

I have found many "rolled gold" or gold plated versions that sell in the hundreds of dollars. The solid gold versions naturally sell for a lot more. I have yet to find any that have sold or even put on display in this series that are made of 18k gold.

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/Lot/a-montblanc-744-meisterstruck-masterpiece-fountain-pen-5861214-details.aspx

Edited April 19, 2017 by Sid2001

[jar]

 

Ok so the one that sold at Christies was longer and was also made of 18k Gold? BTW thanks everyone for all the good info!

Oh...wait a minute here is the one that sold at Christies, it is a 744 with only the 14k gold nib, it is not the solid gold version of the barrel and cap.

I have found many "rolled gold" or gold plated versions that sell in the hundreds of dollars. The solid gold versions naturally sell for a lot more. I have yet to find any that have sold or even put on display in this series that are made of 18k gold.

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/Lot/a-montblanc-744-meisterstruck-masterpiece-fountain-pen-5861214-details.aspx

Yes, the 7xx series were the solid gold pens.

[Sid2001]

Yes, the 7xx series were the solid gold pens.

 

The pens that I have come across in the 7xx series are at odds wth your statement. There are many examples of gold filled and rolled Gold but not many examples of 14 or 18k solid gold. The example you put up at Christies has only a 14k gold nib. No indication of a hallmark of carat gold on the barrel or cap nor mentioned in the description. Here are a several examples of hundreds if not thousands of examples of gold filled or rolled gold 7xx series that have sold.

http://www.pensforever.com/produtos_detalhe.asp?id_produto=1401&nomeproduto=Caneta+tinteiro+MASTERPIECE+744+dourada&controle=30&idioma=2

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/montblanc-meisterstuck-rolled-gold-1854340920

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/montblanc-742-fountain-pen-496363271

 

By the way in terms of carat gold I have found both 14k and 18k solid gold examples with 18k being far more rare. Here is an example of a couple of 742s in 14k gold that sold in the last several years.Note that when the barrel and cap are made of solid carat gold it is typically mentioned in the description as well as whether it is 14k or 18k gold. I have found only a single example in the 744 series made of 18k gold and the example being posted here is the only example I have come across in 18K gold.

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/montblanc-masterpiece-742-solid-gold-8556528

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1952-montblanc-742-masterpiece-solid-409506222

 

The closest example I could find to an 18k example is this amazing 744 set in 18k Gold of the Fountain pen, ball point pen, and mechanical pencil in the original Mont Blanc Case. Note that Mont Blanc labeled the set as 18k gold on the case itself in addition to the 750 hallmark on the pens.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/fe/a0/3a/fea03a0640951af58daa6d2ced356ef7.jpg

 

Again thanks everyone for the invaluable help in identifying what the set is. It appears that very few of these sets have traded hands so it will be difficult to come up with an estimate.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Sid2001

[niksch]

If your pen is marked 742 on the piston turning knob, then that is the model #. The third number of the model number is the nib size, your pen has a #2 nib. 742 models are slightly shorter than 744s, but the third number indicates nib size (just like Meisterstück 149, 146, 144, 142).

 

The pattern on your pen indicates "rolled gold", I have a 744N with the same pattern. 742 and 744 FPs were made in both rolled and solid gold patterns.

 

The pencil should have a model # imprint near the clip ring. Mine says 772K, with the K meaning Kürz or short. This K designator is used on the 172 pencil (counterpart to 14x series pens), where the 172K pencil is shorter than the 172 and fits better with the 142 and 144 FPs.

 

My only arena for price assessment of these pens would be what I've seen on eBay. MB772 pens sales ranged from US$175 to $1350. The long MB772 pencil averaged $250, the 772K about $200.

 

Given together as a set, and with the nice box, I'd reckon $1200-1600.

[niksch]

Confusions in rolled gold and solid gold designations amongst the MB models were resolved in the 1960s designations of models 82/84 (rolled) and 92/94 (solid).

[Sid2001]

I have dealt with gold bullion for many years and even ran a gold and silver refinery at one point in my life. This is not rolled gold, it is 18k gold designated by 750 hallmark that means 18/24 parts pure or 75% pure gold in other words 18k gold. There are rolled gold versions of this pen in addition to 14k gold versions as well as this 18k version.

i am not expert on pens but when it comes to gold this is something I am very familiar with. Show me a photograph of yours and I would be willing to bet you a donut that if it is rolled gold as you say that unlike mine it does not have the numbers 750 (18/24 parts pure gold) or even 585 (14/24 parts pure gold) on the barrel or cap. The pattern has nothing to do with whether it is rolled gold or karat gold. The hallmark does.

A simple test is to rub a part of the cap ever so gently on a touch stone(any lapidary shop sells these) and add a drop of nitric acid to the mark on the stone. Rolled gold that is typically plated on brass and the mark on the touch stone will turn green when nitric acid is added to it. The acid reacts with copper to form copper nitrate that is green in color. 18k Gold will retain its color when the acid is added to the mark on the touch stone.

I have painstakingly provided links above to the different version of carat gold rolled gold and even gold filled pens.

I have no ideas about the value of the set or at least up until this morning the model of the pen but the gold in it is unequivocally 18k pure gold as evidenced by the hallmark and the acid test on the touch stone..

According to your logic the pens I have provided links to that are pure gold would sell at a price comparable to rolled gold versions. They don't and for good reason.

 

Here is close up picture of the pen on the end of the clip on the cap you will see the number 750. This is one of the universally accepted hallmarks for 18k pure gold.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Sid2001

[soapytwist]

There's a 14K 744 solid set on eBay for EUR8000:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MONTBLANC-Fuller-744-N-Kugelschreiber-97-in-14ct-Gold-aus-den-1950er-Jahren-/231849734245

 

Obviously yours is finer in gold content, but smaller in size. You'll also have to factor in that, although this is tagged at EUR8000, that might not be what it's worth.

[Sid2001]

There's a 14K 744 solid set on eBay for EUR8000:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MONTBLANC-Fuller-744-N-Kugelschreiber-97-in-14ct-Gold-aus-den-1950er-Jahren-/231849734245

 

Obviously yours is finer in gold content, but smaller in size. You'll also have to factor in that, although this is tagged at EUR8000, that might not be what it's worth.

 

Thank you that is very helpful and indeed the closest item yet to what I have seen that is being offered for sale. It is always difficult to value something that rarely trades.

[niksch]

Thanks for your lecture Sid2001. Good luck with your sale. I learned a few things today.

Also, I might add, for someone asking for help from forum members, you sure seem to be unthankful and even antagonistic to those few who have tried to provide you with information...particularly when you didn't like what was provided.

[Sid2001]

 

Thanks for your lecture Sid2001. Good luck with your sale. I learned a few things today.

Also, I might add, for someone asking for help from forum members, you sure seem to be unthankful and even antagonistic to those few who have tried to provide you with information...particularly when you didn't like what was provided.

 

 

Niksch, respectfully I have no doubt that all information was provided in good faith. By the way I really appreciate how to identify the Pencil model. As it turns out I found the number and letter 772k on it. Interestingly searching around I found quite a few gold plated 772k a single 14k 772k but no 18k 772ks anywhere. So I am very grateful and thankful to all the members including yourself for the fascinating information provided. I m a "collectaholic" of all kinds of items and I find the history of things fascinating and I try to be as precise as possible. I have co authored a book on vintage hotwheels that is considered the bible among collectors of these little cars. It is called "The Elite Redline Guide". Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.

 

If I see information that I know for sure is erroneous I would hope that you would find that to be helpful and not "antagonistic". I shared with you a quick way to assay for gold that in my case validated that the 750 hallmark signified real gold and not just rolled gold as you seemed to be under the impression that all 742 pens of this particular design pattern are. The other member seemed to believe that all 7xx series were pure gold that is also clearly incorrect. As I said I am learning about identifying pens and I am very grateful for that. I happen to have knowledge about how to quickly and easily assay for gold the that I would hope you would find useful. For example if you looked at your pen and it happened to have the same 750 hallmark that I already validated is made of real gold that could be very helpful information should you ever want to sell yours or that perhaps your heirs would want to know about and not be under the false impression that it is rolled gold.

 

Let me share with you an interesting story about experts giving incorrect information in the numismatic arena. Only five 1913 Liberty head nickels were made and each coin today is worth millions of dollars. A coin dealer who was killed in a car accident in 1962 owned one of the coins. When his heirs had the cons appraised a well respected coin dealer (Stacks) dismissed their 1913 nickel as a fake. Had they shared where the deceased had obtained the coin and given background about it a rarity would not have been lost to the world for 50 years after.

 

I doubt that Stacks would have considered the sharing of info as "antagonistic" or perhaps defensive. Instead they looked very foolish when 50 years later another heir found the long lost coin tossed aside in a closest. He took it to a coin show where it was indeed authenticated. The mystery of the the missing fifth 1913 nickel was finally solved. Good luck in your Fountain pen endeavors and as always happy collecting!

Edited April 21, 2017 by Sid2001