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Ink Sac Sizes For Swans


18 replies to this topic

#1 Paul Raposo

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 14:32

Hey everyone.

 

It's been months since I found anything interesting locally to service and recently found several pens, two of which are a pair of MT&Co Swans.

 

One is a leverless 0160 and the other is a self filler SF 2.

 

I contacted The Pendragons regarding sizes but haven't heard back.  I know the leverless needs a necked sac but I don't know what size and I don't know what size for the SF2 or if it needs a necked sac as well.

 

Any advice would be appreciated  :thumbup: 


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#2 Cob

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 15:12

Hullo,

 

No need for a necked sac on the 0160; I must have re-sacced a dozen of them with straight sacs  The last one I did a week or so ago I used either an 18 or 19 - cannot remember; anyway it works very nicely..

 

The trick with a paddle leverless is to use the largest sac you can stick sensibly into the barrel.  Usually this will be a bit loose around the nipple.  Just tie it up with sewing thread while the shellac sets.  Then without the nib and feed installed fit the section c/w sac of course (French chalk please) and ensure that it goes fully home using a rounded-end probe.  You may then fit the nib and feed.  As for the SF2 most likely a 17 or 18 should do nicely.

 

Cob


fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


#3 Paul Raposo

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 16:22

Thanks much for the sizes and tips Cob :thumbup:


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#4 Toby-B

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 14:29

 .....I don't know what size for the SF2 or if it needs a necked sac as well.

 

Any advice would be appreciated  :thumbup:

Hi Paul, I am restoring a Swan SF2 as well.

Can you tell me what sac size you ended up using for your pen.

I'm wondering weather to use a size 17 or a size 16. the size 17 fits better in the barrel, but the lever is a lot stiffer to operate and get all the way back, will the size 16 seems a bit loose in the barrel, but I can get the lever all the way back quite easily.

 

I suppose I could just install the size 16, and if I find I'm constantly having to refill the pen too often, then just redo it again with a sac size 17.

 

Regards,
Toby.



#5 Greenie

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 00:24

It sounds like you have both sizes. Honestly, it just depends if you prefer the smoother action on the lever with the 16, or want to maximize ink capacity.  I wold guess/bet/assume, and maybe be wrong, that you don't travel around much with the SF2. So if it is for home use, or at an office with a bottle of ink in your desk, just use the 16 and minimize the stress to the lever and barrel.



#6 Toby-B

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 09:16

That's right, Greenie. I have a range ink sac sizes to play around with. My Swan SF2 will stay at home. I'm planning of getting another vintage pen more suitable for work, but still with flex.

Thanks for you advice :) . I've now fitted a size 16 sac, for as you said, to minimize the stress on the lever.



#7 Lelouch

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 23:08

Im not sure if it is still available, but I think I bought the larger assortment of ink sacs from Richard Binders site. I usually just try sizes in the barrel until something is too big (wide) and go from there.

#8 chunya

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 08:38

Am I mistaken or did the Pendragon website (or was it their Ebay page) not have a table giving sac sizes for Swans? Having now written it down, I'm beginning to think it's a figment of my fuzzy mind!



#9 grainweevil

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 09:09

Might you be thinking of vintagefountainpens.co.uk?



#10 chunya

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 05:53

Might you be thinking of vintagefountainpens.co.uk?

That's the Table ... thanks! 



#11 Toby-B

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 20:43

Thanks for you advice :) . I've now fitted a size 16 sac, for as you said, to minimize the stress on the lever.


UPDATE: I had problems with the size 16 sac I fitted to my Swan SF2. The lever wouldn't sit flush with the barrel and kept sticking up a bit, due to there being too much space between the bar and the sac. I redid it, and fitted a size 18 sac instead, as mentioned in the table here: https://www.vintagef...7-Ink-Sacs.html.
There still is a slight problem with the lever sticking up. Is this normal for a Swan SF"?
_

#12 Cob

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 15:56

UPDATE: I had problems with the size 16 sac I fitted to my Swan SF2. The lever wouldn't sit flush with the barrel and kept sticking up a bit, due to there being too much space between the bar and the sac. I redid it, and fitted a size 18 sac instead, as mentioned in the table here: https://www.vintagef...7-Ink-Sacs.html.
There still is a slight problem with the lever sticking up. Is this normal for a Swan SF"?
_

I presume that this is a long lever model with Mabie Todd's elegant pressure bar system (though God help you if it falls apart - I had one recently).

 

With these, the lever is supposed to lock into place - you will see the barbs on the underside of the lever.  Sometimes this plays up - maybe owing to wear.  On the other hand i have in front of me a 230/50 that is probably nearly 90 years old and it is fine -  even the gold plate is perfect.

 

Was your lever fine beforehand?

 

Cob


fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


#13 Toby-B

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 13:47

I presume that this is a long lever model with Mabie Todd's elegant pressure bar system (though God help you if it falls apart - I had one recently).
 
With these, the lever is supposed to lock into place - you will see the barbs on the underside of the lever.  Sometimes this plays up - maybe owing to wear.  On the other hand i have in front of me a 230/50 that is probably nearly 90 years old and it is fine -  even the gold plate is perfect.
 
Was your lever fine beforehand?
 
Cob

 
Thanks for your reply Cob.
When I got the Swan SF2 the lever was unmoveable, so I don't know if it was okay before.
 
Here are some photos of the lever in various positions. As you can see, the lever has barbs, and there is a bar in the lever housing, where I presume the barbs should latch on to.
The lever has a tendency to ride up a millimetre or so when not in the horizontal upright position.

 

 

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#14 Greenie

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 14:33

I want to be sure I understand.

Is the lever a little bit loose, moving more flush or up a mm just with gravity?

Or is it secure on the bar for the barbs to lock on to, but it moves up a mm and stays there?

Or will it not go down all the way, but it is secure in the slightly raised position?



#15 Toby-B

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 20:50

I want to be sure I understand.

Is the lever a little bit loose, moving more flush or up a mm just with gravity?

Or is it secure on the bar for the barbs to lock on to, but it moves up a mm and stays there?

Or will it not go down all the way, but it is secure in the slightly raised position?


Hi Greenie. Yes, the lever is loose, moving by gravity.
 

When the pen is horizontal with the lever on top, the lever lies flush with the barrel. When I turn the barrel from the horizontal, the level pops out by a millimetre. The ink sac prevents it going any further. When I turn the pen to the horizontal position again, the level falls back in place.

I guess the barbs are worn, and won't lock onto the locking bar.

.
 



#16 Greenie

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 22:52

The barbs look a tad worn. But you can very ever so slightly bend the clip, and the natural weak point is the correct spot for the bend, and then it will catch better and stay flush.

 

Bend it so little you can't see it bend!  Then test, and repeat.

 

Nylon pliers are best to prevent marring.  Or use needle nose, and put thick paper on top to try to prevent scratching



#17 CS388

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 01:09

Sorry. Posted in error. Deleted.


Edited by CS388, 10 November 2017 - 08:20.


#18 Toby-B

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 20:17

The barbs look a tad worn. But you can very ever so slightly bend the clip, and the natural weak point is the correct spot for the bend, and then it will catch better and stay flush.

 

Bend it so little you can't see it bend!  Then test, and repeat.

 

Nylon pliers are best to prevent marring.  Or use needle nose, and put thick paper on top to try to prevent scratching

 

Thanks Greenie, that worked :) .

 

I had a go at padding the little locking bar with a coating of PVA glue, but that didn't work.

Maybe coating the little hooks with shellac might have worked - that will be an experiment for another pen.

 

Many thanks.



#19 Greenie

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 21:16

I would bet that coating the bar or barbs won't work. Too much scraping type of force then the lever is closed, and this will scrape off any materiel you use to build things up.  

 

Besides, a tiny bend works so darn well, there is little reason for another solution!  





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