Some Steel Nibs Better Than Gold?

[p_98582]

Hello,

 

I've heard some reviewers saying that some steel nibs are smoother than gold nibs. They say this of Faber Castell steel nibs, for the most part, but somehow, they don't mention what these gold nibs are, maybe to avoid disparaging other brands or something.

 

I'm curious to know what these purportedly less smooth gold nibs are.

 

Any thoughts?

[sandy101]

Gold in itself does not mean that a nib will be smooth. There are other variables - some to do with the design, the feed and a whole lot of other stuff which I know nothing about.

 

For example, the humble Parker 45 - it was designed as a classy school/student pen and comes with gold or steel nibs. The pen was manufactured for a particular pric epoint - it comes with a gold nib, but I wouldn't decscibe them as smooth at all - they are a bit toothy. Japanese pens are similar - the Platinum #3776 comes with a lovely gold nib, but it has a bit of tooth to it - but this is not a bad thing - the "tooth" is merely the pen gripping the paper - it means the pen is steadier, which is useful - especially when writing on different papers. A buttery smooth nib is difficult to use on a glossy postcard surface.

 

I can't say much for vintage, but modern steel nibs certainly can be the equal of gold ones - especially when all nibs seems to be hard. The Visconti, Diplomat and Italix nibs are very good. The only nibs I notice an appreciable difference with is when compared to 18K gold nibs, which can be softer which means there is a slight spring in the nib, but again that's not always true. The Cross 18K nib is as hard as any steel one, but the 18K Paltinum has a bit of a spring in it.

 

I think now, the variability of wrtiting experience is more to do with the brand, rather than the nib's material. Cheaper (steel) pens seem to struggle at times more because of the feed being unable to keep up with the nib, or being more prone to drying out between writing sessions.

Edited March 26, 2017 by sandy101

[jar]

In most fountain pens today you write with a platinum family alloy. Whether the basic nib is made of steel or gold or titanium or some other material has nothing to do with how smooth it seems.

[tonybelding]

On the average, it seems like nibs today are not as slick as they have been in decades past. My Sheaffers from the 1960s-1970s, for example, tend to be very smooth -- both steel and gold. It's all about the polishing of the tip, not the material the nib is made from. Vintage pens that have been used a lot may be smoothed due to simple wear, but some of mine were NOS (new old stock) that had never been used.

 

Oddly, most people report that titanium nibs exhibit a slight feedback or drag on the page, and that's true of the two that I own. I'm not sure of the reason for that, since the tip ought to be the same as gold or steel nibs, and I've wondered if there is some sort of micro-vibration occurring in the titanium tines that gives this impression.

 

As for steel nibs... A firm, fine, steel nib with a really smooth tip writes a lot like a rollerball, and I mean that in a good way. They're very practical for everyday carry and scribbling notes or filling out forms, etc.

[Zeeppo]

There are some companies that do not put as much effort into quality control as others. No amount of gold will make up for poor quality control. By the same token if a company does a great deal of testing you can get a great steel nib that writes smoothly.

 

I had a Scheaffer with a gold nib that I sent back twice because of problems with the nib. By the same token my daily writer is usually a Nemosine Singularity with a steel nib. I have had several of these and never had an issue with the nib.I believe their nibs are made by Bach (My memory could be wrong).

 

 

I have also had some issues with Mont Blanc in general. I have a couple vintage ones with great nibs. I have given up buying modern ones because the nibs were not as smooth as cheaper steel nibs. Granted I gave up on them more than a decade ago. They may have worked through what ever issues they were having back then.

[siamackz]

I agree with the posts above. I don't think gold or steel has anything to do with smoothness. The way the nib tip is ground is really what matters. You can have two MBs from the factory that write differently, you can have a brand new Pelikan that skips because it's ground so smooth that it has baby's bottom. And, you can buy a humble Kaweco with a steel nibs that writes beautiful and perfect.

I've learned that the only way to make sure you have a smooth nib and good ink flow, is to learn how to make these small adjustments to the pen yourself.

[Driften]

I have had modern steel nibs that are as nice as the gold nibs that I have. Like others have said its more of a function of the quality of the tipping material and grind then the body material.

[pankaj]

All of my gold nibs are smooth .

 

All of my steel nibs are smooth.

 

I had thought my Dupont gold nib was the best till I used a Lamy steel 1.9 stub.

 

Now I'm further confused : the other day I exhumed my Parker Vector, can't rem after how many decades...aging memory. And it wrote so smooooooth !

 

Still mumbling ... steel or gold or palladium or titan ......looking at the poor little first crush Vector

[MuttonChew]

I think the biggest reason gold nibs are associated with smoothness has to do with their price. In general, pens with gold nibs see much better quality control due to their price compared to more affordable steel nibs. Of course if you are dealing with more expensive stainless steel nibs, like Montegrappa for example, the difference is going to be minimal.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I'm a tad more interested in some flex than 'butter smooth'. My Geha, and Osmia steel nibs match the gold and both of them had superb nibs in both gold and steel.

The steel nibs of Geha and Osmia/O-F-C match my gold MB, and Pelikan. I don't chase modern nibs in I find them boring. They are on the whole as far as I can tell nail and semi-nail.....where old fashioned regular flex steel nibs like the 200 give a better ride, and can be very smooth. I don't look for butter smooth, but find the 200 smooth.

 

My 600 is as smooth as my Townsend steel nib. If I was to dig out that boring Townsend nib, I'm sure it's butter smooth....as was the 600.

 

Butter smooth can be reached with any steel or gold nib if properly polished. Tippings from better companies are similar in how good they are.

Once every company had it's own always looking for as good, but cheaper rare earth tippings with 100 years of experience...any good company has good tipping if the bottom line bonus don't get in the way.

 

In today, 'Iridium' point Germany seems to be the standard, in I think the German 'iridium' seems to be in a monopolistic position, it comes down to who does the polishing.

 

When I remove drag from pens which have sat in an attic or the back of a drawer for two generations, I smooth to 'good and smooth' the level under 'butter smooth'. One some times butter smooth is too slick on slick paper, good and smooth gives a tad of tooth and don't slip around on slick paper.......and I'm too lazy to strive for what I don't really want nor need.

 

For extra smoothness, use a more lubricated ink and slicker paper.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[pankaj]

+++1 Bo Bo

Spot on.

[p_98582]

Thanks for your replies.

 

I've done my own bit of research, and from that I know that gold is more malleable, softer, etc.

 

It's mostly about the polish of the tipping of the nib, or something to that effect.

 

Maybe my question was more about particular brands (thank you to those who replied with specific brands). I contextualized this by giving one particular brand (Faber Castell) as purportedly having smoother steel nibs than some brands who use gold nibs. I wanted to know what particular brands these were, for reference.

 

Perhaps I phrased my question vaguely, I apologize.

[mitto]

I like gold nibs. Steel nibs can be as good as gold nibs. But my personal preference is gold nibs.

[praxim]

Thanks for your replies.

 

I've done my own bit of research, and from that I know that gold is more malleable, softer, etc.

 

It's mostly about the polish of the tipping of the nib, or something to that effect.

 

Maybe my question was more about particular brands (thank you to those who replied with specific brands). I contextualized this by giving one particular brand (Faber Castell) as purportedly having smoother steel nibs than some brands who use gold nibs. I wanted to know what particular brands these were, for reference.

 

Perhaps I phrased my question vaguely, I apologize.

p_98582, I think the point has been made that the tipping material is not related to the nib metal except for cheaper steel nibs with steel tips. Therefore, asking which modern nail gold nibs are not as smooth as modern nail steel nibs with the same tipping material and polish makes little sense, or is not really answerable.

 

I prefer gold nibs but this is not to do with smoothness. My only steel nib is a Waterman Expert. I think it fairly unlikely that in a blind test you could distinguish it for smoothness from modern nail gold nibs. However, I need only look at the corrosion on its nib top surface to see one of the reasons I prefer gold.

[p_98582]

p_98582, I think the point has been made that the tipping material is not related to the nib metal except for cheaper steel nibs with steel tips. Therefore, asking which modern nail gold nibs are not as smooth as modern nail steel nibs with the same tipping material and polish makes little sense, or is not really answerable.

 

I prefer gold nibs but this is not to do with smoothness. My only steel nib is a Waterman Expert. I think it fairly unlikely that in a blind test you could distinguish it for smoothness from modern nail gold nibs. However, I need only look at the corrosion on its nib top surface to see one of the reasons I prefer gold.

Why does it make little sense? People keep talking about how Faber Castell nibs are the smoothest, that Pilot nibs have more feedback, etc implying that there are some brands that are smoother than others. Let's not go the whole "feedback is not smoothness" argument even. Some brands seem to polish nibs more (regardless of the metal involved), and that's all I wanted to know, if people know something about that.

 

Your second paragraph makes little sense to me, in light of my question.

[praxim]

No, let's. Feedback and smoothness are not quite the same.

 

You are delving into personal views and tastes for things very similar, which was part of the message in my second paragraph. If your question is really which nibs are more polished then perhaps you are asking a purely technical question in which case I commend to you a microscope and some research.

[p_98582]

No, let's. Feedback and smoothness are not quite the same.

 

You are delving into personal views and tastes for things very similar, which was part of the message in my second paragraph. If your question is really which nibs are more polished then perhaps you are asking a purely technical question in which case I commend to you a microscope and some research.

 

Yes, they're not the same, but you answered a question I did not ask. A purely technical question would be something along the lines of "which is longer, a Lamy Safari or a Pilot Metropolitan?"

 

I was counting on this community, based on varying degrees of experience and expertise, as to inform me what brands in general have smoother, polished nibs, in their own usage, using different inks, different kinds of paper, etc (If you want to be somewhat technical about it). Microscopes optional. I believe this is called research, too, when people ask questions.

[praxim]

To be a little pedantic, the polish on a nib is assessable with adequate magnification and so is a technical question as much as is measuring the length of something.

 

It may be that you are doing so accidentally, but you have changed your question or premise more than once. Posts 1 & 12 were consistent and many people have responded aptly. Now you ask "what brands in general have smoother, polished nibs". I am happy to reply that S T Dupont and Pelikan are two brands with very smooth nibs, as is Graf von Faber Castell. Do you need more of them?

 

If you are still concerned about the opinions of "some reviewers" that Faber Castell steel nibs may be smoother than "some" gold nibs then I refer you to all previous answers, which have been trying to help despite the people having no necessary relationship to "some reviewers" or said reviewers' personal opinions about unnamed pens.

 

I suggest an Aurora is a possible candidate for the role about which you asked originally, but that would be misleading regarding the writing experiences and their desirability to any nominated person.

[Tweel]

I think generally you'd be comparing brand to brand. I can't think of a brand that consistently makes its gold nibs less smooth than its steel nibs. So (generalizing), Bock nibs are smoother than the above-mentioned Aurora nibs, for example.

[Bo Bo Olson]

From what I've read over the years here, 'noobies' at first chase butter smooth at all costs.

After a year many start asking how to rough up their butter smooth nib.

 

Perhaps they read about touch, toothy(like a pencil...not scratchy) or they find slick paper finally.

 

I do have a couple butter smooth nibs. A couple toothy nibs, and as I said, when I get rid of drag of a couple generations of dark of the drawer, micro-corrosion/'iridium' rust, I'm happy with good and smooth.

 

IMO a nails a nail, and any good company's nail will be smooth enough. And how can there be any 'soft' to a nail?

I think, some folks mistake a gold semi-nail for a nail, to get 'soft'. Having had a Lamy 18 K nail on a Persona....saw, felt absolutely no 'soft'!!!!

 

A semi-nail like a P-75 or a modern 600/400 would be "soft" compared to that Lamy Nail....and or other nails I have.

 

Of course there are weight lifters with jack hammer hands that might get their now sprung nails to write 'soft'.