Just Bought A Pelikan M400 What Should I Know?

[iznogood]

I bought this pen from a fellow fpner https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/classifieds/item/43347-pelikan-m400-om-nib-reduction

 

It should ship today and I am quite excited to get it.

 

This is my first Pelikan and my first "semi_folex" gold nib so any advice is welcomed. The seller flexes the nib but youtube seems to says never flex gold?

 

I think I paid a fair price for it 205$ can shipped. Here at wonderpens I would pay 530$ and this one is pre 1990-95 and I have read my nib is better then the newer ones?

 

So any info/advice/telling me I got ripped off/whatever is welcome!

 

:-)

 

BTW A green Pelikan Souveran m400-600-800 is/was one of my grail pens.

[JulioPB]

Maybe you should know that those nibs from the 80's are the best Palikan nibs, IMHO.

Julio MX

[iznogood]

Maybe you should know that those nibs from the 80's are the best Palikan nibs, IMHO.

Julio MX

Thanks! I had read that and this mad eme even happier with my purchase! This is going to be a long 2-3 weeks..

Had received a bottle of Pelikan Dark-Green yesterday for another pen but I think this should work beautifully in a green m400.

[Bo Bo Olson]

First I doubt if the nib is semi-flex in the nib is marked with a size. '50-54 wasn't unless it's a '54 transition. Even that one had a size marking on the barrel. It is not a 400n...nor a 400nn. So it is not semi-flex.

 

In many folks coming from nail or semi-nails just don't know what a old fashioned regular issue, regular flex is, they confuse it with semi-flex in the 'tines actually move' with out putting it on the bottom of a pogo stick.

 

Sigh, cubed.....regular flex in oblique is a waste of money unless you are left handed or left eye dominate. There is little to no line variation, which one gets with the '50-65 era semi-flex nibs. I know I have an OM on a W. Germany 200. I'd have to max the nib all the time to get half of what I get on my '50's era Obliques....which I have 13....have 26 semi-flex...13-or so maxi-semi-flex.

 

If it is W.Germany '82-90 it's 'true' regular flex is a tad better than the Germany '90-97. It is a good springy 'true' regular flex either way. I have a W. Germany 200 that is the slightest hair more springy.....don't help on the OB though.

I also have a '90's-96 in mine is tortoise....and the nib is good, as good as the modern 200.

It is much better IMO than the modern 1/2 a with fatter, blobby nibs that are semi-nail.

The 200/400 nibs have a cleaner line.

 

Semi-flex is a wetter nib due to the tines spread with half the effort of mashing a 'true' regular flex to 3 X tine spread. It needs a much better paper and ink combo for shading.

 

So for shading ink...need 90g laser paper out side Rhoda and Tomalo or how ever, the old fashioned regular flex is better.

 

Price is way too high. Never Ever Buy Now.

In Germany I can buy a Geha School pen from between Euro 12-19...There are German Pirates that sell a polished at home Geha school pen for Only $89.

 

 

If you had looked on German Ebay, found some one that would take Paypal and ship to Canada....Euro 58-66-77-92.

For semi-flex 400nn about euro 100.

 

 

You are too new....I say that about German Ebay very often.

Edited March 24, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[iznogood]

Ha ha what a party pooper! :-)

 

Well I'll have to see it when it gets here. 200 can $ is 138 euro. Not that big of a number. Also I liked I was buying from someone here. That's personal to me I guess.

 

But have to say you are almost calling the seller a liar about the flex and I kinda want to give him a chance to answer you. I did not expect such a "critique" and well yeah.

 

I'll have to see how I feel about the nib when it gets here. Thanks for the informations!

 

First I doubt if the nib is semi-flex in the nib is marked with a size. '50-54 wasn't unless it's a '54 transition. Even that one had a size marking on the barrel. It is not a 400n...nor a 400nn. So it is not semi-flex.

 

In many folks coming from nail or semi-nails just don't know what a old fashioned regular issue, regular flex is, they confuse it with semi-flex in the 'tines actually move' with out putting it on the bottom of a pogo stick.

 

Sigh, cubed.....regular flex in oblique is a waste of money unless you are left handed or left eye dominate. There is little to no line variation, which one gets with the '50-65 era semi-flex nibs. I know I have an OM on a W. Germany 200. I'd have to max the nib all the time to get half of what I get on my '50's era Obliques....which I have 13....have 26 semi-flex...13-or so maxi-semi-flex.

 

If it is W.Germany '82-90 it's 'true' regular flex is a tad better than the Germany '90-97. It is a good springy 'true' regular flex either way. I have a W. Germany 200 that is the slightest hair more springy.....don't help on the OB though.

I also have a '90's-96 in mine is tortoise....and the nib is good, as good as the modern 200.

It is much better IMO than the modern 1/2 a with fatter, blobby nibs that are semi-nail.

The 200/400 nibs have a cleaner line.

 

Semi-flex is a wetter nib due to the tines spread with half the effort of mashing a 'true' regular flex to 3 X tine spread. It needs a much better paper and ink combo for shading.

 

So for shading ink...need 90g laser paper out side Rhoda and Tomalo or how ever, the old fashioned regular flex is better.

 

Price is way too high. Never Ever Buy Now.

In Germany I can buy a Geha School pen from between Euro 12-19...There are German Pirates that sell a polished at home Geha school pen for Only $89.

 

 

If you had looked on German Ebay, found some one that would take Paypal and ship to Canada....Euro 58-66-77-92.

For semi-flex 400nn about euro 100.

 

 

You are too new....I say that about German Ebay very often.

[Bo Bo Olson]

There was of course semi-flex before 1950. I start using that as a date in that was when the first 400 came out. I find semi-flex ended 1965 for Pelikan, when the stopped making the 400NN. -72 for the Geha 725. I mostly chased semi-flex...having 26 and 13 or so maxi-semi-flex.

My '70's-80's MB 146 is 'true' regular flex. I have three '50's two of them that are semi-flex and one is maxi-semi-flex.

 

The only regular flex pens I have of that era are the Pelikan 120 and a Geha School pen...oh, forgot my Artus pens.

 

I have a W. Germany 200 (OM ), a Amethyst 200, and a 215. They are very good nibs. The '90's M400 is as good. The Celebry I have in gold and steel and those nibs are =. I also have a 381. So I do have a few 'true' regular flex Pelikan nibs.

 

Assuming he's honest, he's ill informed to flex rates. Had he put a Vintage '50-65 nib on the pen he'd said so. He didn't.

 

As mentioned many think even regular flex is semi-flex, in there is tine spread, which nail users know nothing about and semi-nail users little.

 

I have a number of the 'true' regular flex Pelikan pens. I keep saying 'true' regular flex, in that was once regular issue of nibs until the late '90's...where most pen companies went away from the old regular flex, in too many ham fisted ball point barbarians bent the hell out of regular flex nibs.

I don't want folks thinking the regular modern 400/600 nibs which are semi-nail, are regular flex just because now they are the regular issue.

 

Then in 1998 with the gold ring at the piston of the new 400 and 600, Pelikan went over to a fat wide point semi-nail , in many of the barbarians didn't have three minutes to learn how to hold a fountain pen....and didn't want to frighten them off. So the modern M400 the one after yours can be written holding it before the big index knuckle like a ball point.

Yours can't. You have to hold the nib behind the big knuckle....and you will have to cant your nib in it is OM and will be scratchy held straight. Even more scratchy if held like a ball point.

 

You can write 'normal' with the OM just don't expect any line variation that the '50-65 nibs give. They are also stubbish to go with semi-flex. A different world of flex and line variation in vintage to our semi-vintage 200's OM and your M400's OM.

If you cant your nib (turn it to the left 1/4th)....line up your clip when you post it between the slit and the right side of the nib, put it to paper and write. That will put the nib on the paper at the proper angle.

Even with semi-flex, much less 'true' regular flex ....twisting your fingers, hand&arm or hanging from the chandelier will not do anything good.

 

You can write and enjoy the OM nib as a nice springy ride, if you cant it. Don't go mashing the nib to the max looking to get some 'line variation'. Sooner or later you will spring the nib.

Just because you can mash the nib to 3 X a light down stroke don't mean you should so so....a hell of a lot of work to try and write so.

As long as you hold the pen like a featherless baby bird....you will have no problems...if it goes out to 2X on some starting letter or a crossed T .... fine.

I strive to never max my nibs. Springing a nib is against my religion. $$$ my wallet's too.

 

Do go to Richard Binder's com....take you three days to read through the Bible of nibs, filling systems and good advice on inks. He has an article on how to $$$spring your nib.

 

Your next buy should be a loose nib and section...from that era....none of the modern junk. Or a real semi-flex nib...and that can be oblique, I think OB is nice in it's like a modern fat M, and has a bigger sweet spot than an OM. Easier to get use too.

You can read of oblique grind angles some other time...it's not important now.

 

A steel 200's nib is affordable...I see no reason to pay lots extra for a gold plated 200 nib. Remember the 200 and your Germany '90-97 M400 are = nibs. Very good 'true' regular flex nibs.

You lose nothing going to the 200's nib out side it won't be gold colored.

Here is is pure myth that gold is better than steel. It is not., if the steel nib is a good one.

 

You can send your nib off to a nibmeister and have it ground straight, in if it's not semi-flex oblique IMO is a waste of money....outside being left eye dominate or a left handed writer.

 

I'd hit him up for some money back....in it is Not Semi-flex as advertised....there for, the oblique won't work as it should.

It should be.... instead it's .

Edited March 24, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[ImQuagmire]

Hello Everyone

 

As the seller of the pen I think I should respond to the criticism.

 

As one can see, I try to describe my pens to the best of my abilities, please have a look at my feedbacks here or on fpgeeks. I would like my buyers to be happy with their purchase: I had been a buyer before many times and I know exactly how exciting it can be to wait for a parcel, open the box with butterflies in the stomach and jump into the world of quality writing instruments. I am just as much an enthusiast as many of you. I am not an expert, though, and I have limited experience - I am nowhere near as experienced as Bo Bo Olson and several others on this board who I have huge respect for. I love reading their posts and I would like to thank them for the wonderful information they have shared with us over the years. Again, I am not an expert and this is why I have the top end of my collection serviced by Fountainbel before selling those pens: I do not want to disappoint anyone.

 

I used many vintage nibs, dozens of pens from the 1940-1960 era including many Pelikan 100s, 400s, Montblanc 14x pens and I am fairly certain that the nib on Iznogood's pen definitely belongs to the semi-flexible category.

 

I am a little surprised at the harsh criticism I received in this thread but I am sure Iznogood will like his pen and will find it a joy to use.

 

About the price: the pen was sold for $155 including priority shipping from Hungary to Canada. The pen is already on its way to Canada as I shipped it earlier today. I do not see the outrage here but of course, if Iznogood feels he had been ripped off, then I will compensate him and I offer him full refund: If he is not 100% satisfied with his purchase I will give him a full refund including shipping costs.

 

Kind regards

 

Zoltan

[iznogood]

I stand by my transactions always. I don't feel ripped off at all. I'm a big boy and I get to decide if I get ripped off.

 

But first things first I don't care much for the "flex" of this pen. I have wanted a nice m400 for a eternity and this one seemed nice enough, seller responded faster then anyone else and provided good info and made a deal with me.

 

Of course I can buy anything somewhere for less. But like I said I am new here, I want to be a part of this community, this seller has sold a lot of pens without hassle, I did as best as I could with the information I had.

 

Here a Pelikan m400 new would cost me 530 $CAN + taxes. And it is said it's nib would be subpar to the one I am getting.

 

So from my perspective I made a great deal! I might of missed a better deal sure! I do not care.

 

If the pen gets here and there's some flaw that was hidden or whatnot I'll react but as it is the description was fine, the pen pictures look fine, the writting samples look gorgeous.

 

I'm happy.

 

I'm also learning a lesson I am not dissing all the advice on the contrary. Just trying to explain that, for me at least, when I buy something there is a assemble of things that make it fun and great and money is just one part of it.

 

 

But next time I buy a Pelikan I'll be sure to reread all this thread before I commit. But like I said I have no regrets.

 

Hello Everyone

 

As the seller of the pen I think I should respond to the criticism.

 

As one can see, I try to describe my pens to the best of my abilities, please have a look at my feedbacks here or on fpgeeks. I would like my buyers to be happy with their purchase: I had been a buyer before many times and I know exactly how exciting it can be to wait for a parcel, open the box with butterflies in the stomach and jump into the world of quality writing instruments. I am just as much an enthusiast as many of you. I am not an expert, though, and I have limited experience - I am nowhere near as experienced as Bo Bo Olson and several others on this board who I have huge respect for. I love reading their posts and I would like to thank them for the wonderful information they have shared with us over the years. Again, I am not an expert and this is why I have the top end of my collection serviced by Fountainbel before selling those pens: I do not want to disappoint anyone.

 

I used many vintage nibs, dozens of pens from the 1940-1960 era including many Pelikan 100s, 400s, Montblanc 14x pens and I am fairly certain that the nib on Iznogood's pen definitely belongs to the semi-flexible category.

 

I am a little surprised at the harsh criticism I received in this thread but I am sure Iznogood will like his pen and will find it a joy to use.

 

About the price: the pen was sold for $155 including priority shipping from Hungary to Canada. The pen is already on its way to Canada as I shipped it earlier today. I do not see the outrage here but of course, if Iznogood feels he had been ripped off, then I will compensate him and I offer him full refund: If he is not 100% satisfied with his purchase I will give him a full refund including shipping costs.

 

Kind regards

 

Zoltan

[pajaro]

I paid a little less for a similar pen a few years ago, about $120. So, this isn't bad, considering the currency inflation. Mine had a flexy nib, which I threw away and put in a fine nib instead.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I've been wrong just enough, I can't tell Bill Gates what time he has to be at work.

 

I like '50-65 Obliques. having some 13+.

 

I can only wonder that someone swapped a '50-65 nib on a Germany '90's M400.

No one said it had marking on the pen body...like the '50-54 400's.

 

I do hope the nib is semi-flex. That would be something I would not expect without someone, somewhere swapping nibs.

In fact I'd bet a case of beer on it. I only lost one of them.

 

A posted 400 has very good to great balance. With one new to Obliques, and an OM not an OB, do post the cap first, aim the clip half way between the slit and the right edge of the nib. Aiming with the clip.Then grip it...put it directly to the paper it will be canted at the right angle so there is no need to fool around looking for the sweet spot.

 

If there is still a problem...which I don't expect, some have had their problem go away in having their paper at 90 or 180 degrees instead of 45 degrees. I and as far as I can tell very few have had that problem.

Edited March 25, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[iznogood]

I've been wrong just enough, I can't tell Bill Gates what time he has to be at work.

 

I like '50-65 Obliques. having some 13+.

 

I can only wonder that someone swapped a '50-65 nib on a Germany '90's M400.

No one said it had marking on the pen body...like the '50-54 400's.

 

I do hope the nib is semi-flex. That would be something I would not expect without someone, somewhere swapping nibs.

In fact I'd bet a case of beer on it. I only lost one of them.

 

A posted 400 has very good to great balance. With one new to Obliques, and an OM not an OB, do post the cap first, aim the clip half way between the slit and the right edge of the nib. Aiming with the clip.Then grip it...put it directly to the paper it will be canted at the right angle so there is no need to fool around looking for the sweet spot.

 

If there is still a problem...which I don't expect, some have had their problem go away in having their paper at 90 or 180 degrees instead of 45 degrees. I and as far as I can tell very few have had that problem.

Thanks again for the advices! I'll make sure and update the thread when the pen gets here. Maybe then with better pictures we can identify the pen some more.

[Erik Dalton]

You sound like a bright guy and the seller is certainly up front about what he is providing and dedicated to your satisfaction. None of us have seen the pen so our observations, should be taken as just that, observations.

Listening to you and the seller, I think you will like your new pen and get many years of enjoyment from it. You have a seller who cares that you are happy with your pen. That's not always the case with other sellers.

I remember the excitement of my first Pelikan. It's a good feeling. Don't let us bring you down.

Enjoy your new pen.

Come back and update us when it arrives.

[mamajones]

I bought this pen from a fellow fpner https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/classifieds/item/43347-pelikan-m400-om-nib-reduction

 

It should ship today and I am quite excited to get it.

 

This is my first Pelikan and my first "semi_folex" gold nib so any advice is welcomed. The seller flexes the nib but youtube seems to says never flex gold?

 

I think I paid a fair price for it 205$ can shipped. Here at wonderpens I would pay 530$ and this one is pre 1990-95 and I have read my nib is better then the newer ones?

 

So any info/advice/telling me I got ripped off/whatever is welcome!

 

:-)

 

BTW A green Pelikan Souveran m400-600-800 is/was one of my grail pens.

 

Congratulations on getting your grail pen! The green-striated Pelikan is a classic beauty. And an OM is a cool nib.

 

I may be a noob on this board, but I have been writing with Pelikans (Souveran 400s) for well over 25 years, since 1990 or so. And I have to say that I have been happy with every one of them, whether the nibs are considered "nails" or true flex nibs.

 

So I think you are going to LOVE your new pen. Oblique nibs can be tricky to write with -- you need a little bit of angle to make them write smoothly -- but don't let the flex worry you. Just write and the natural changes in pressure as you write will probably flex the nib enough. Gold nibs are really sweet and forgiving (unless you drop them!) so just try writing with it.

 

Enjoy! As the Grail Knight in the Indiana Jones movie would say, "You have chosen....wisely."

[invisuu]

Congrats! You're getting a great pen, I'm sure. Bo Bo values FPs based on how they flex and he thinks this one doesn't flex as much as he'd like or as much as seller advertised, but I strongly disbelieve there is some "lie" or "scam" going on here. Seller just evaluated the flex capabilities of the nib differently to how Bo Bo would.

 

I will say that, even though Bo Bo believes nail nibs are garbage, they are essential to me. I can't imagine working with flex nibs (equations, numbers, ...). Having a flex nib is always fun to have around at home, however!

 

Enjoy your new pen.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I like semi-flex, even if one has to match ink and paper more for shading in it is wetter than 'true' regular flex. F&M are good shading nibs in regular flex. I wish everyone to have one semi-flex. It has that natural old time fountain pen flair.

 

A number of folks have gotten one and given me a PM. .....so I am then .

 

If nib has three combs/rills on the feed its from '65 or before.

 

It could have been the feed was damaged and someone swapped nibs.

 

 

I think an EF nail is essential for editing. I do not use my Geha EF maxi for that, still being a bit heavy handed it would write to an F.

 

Is essential for jack hammer handed writers too. Otherwise the companies wouldn't have done away on the most part with 'true' regular flex nibs because of repair costs.. In many that are not on this com...... .............hold a fountain pen like a ball point, the nib had to be made stiffer...semi-nail in case of the 400/600, and fat and blobby. Double Kugal, double ball. An American Bump Under and the Ball over....fatter tip.

 

The vintage German K nibs had the thicker tip and the ball on the off side of the nib, But had the flat stubbish bottom in case instead of writing like a pencil (ball points weren't in) one wanted to write like with a fountain pen. I have two of those.....a Geha and an Osmia KMs.

 

I will admit to being Ham Fisted my self, when I got my first semi-flex, a Pelikan 140 OB. It took me some three months to become slightly ham fisted. Just in time for my first maxi-semi-flex a 400NN OF. I didn't know about maxi-then....just that that nib was a bit more flexible than the 140.

It wasn't until I ran into that Rupp nib did I 'discover' maxi-semi-flex as a nib flex rating. Being more 'noobie' and OCD than now, found I had 5 maxi's with out knowing it. Now 13-16, and not worth rooting around in the collection to be exactly sure.

 

Then came Osmia with it's Supra nibs which are all maxi's. The Diamond nibs being semi-flex.

 

I did buy a P-75, semi-nail back in @70, when I was ignorant of fountain pens; back when we didn't even know about cleaning pens. I sisn't know it was a semi-nail. My Pelikan BB 600 is a semi-nail. I am finally going to get it made a stub, in M. I have a nail 18 K OB Lamy Persona that had absolutely no line variation, that PB made into a M-B CI.

I do think the best nail is stubbed or made CI. I have a '36 Canadian factory BB stub nail nib on a '38-39 Vac. The US makers like Parker seemed to make nail Stubs. The Vintage German nib with some flex, were also stubs, but there is a world of difference between a flat bottomed semi-flex stub of Pelikan, MB, Geha, Osmia and so on and nail stubs of Parker.

 

I also have a maxi factory BB in an Australian Snorkel. I had always been going to get my Snorkel in the '50's Sheaffer semi-flex, so I didn't have too. I never got my super fancy rolled gold Admiral, President or Saratoga.

I don't think I've used my P-51 in five years....but one has to have one. I got that when I was 'noobie' before I locked into semi-flex, and later the old regular flex.

 

 

We didn't know about cleaning our pens in the '50-60's....nor later in the '90's either when Parker came out with one of the very first supersaturated inks, the 'Penmann' inks. So having so many pens gunked up from not cleaning it and often, Parker stopped making those inks.

Now that we know....Parker being run by ball point users bottom line bonuses, refuses to get into the The Golden Age of Inks.

[Chrissy]

Ha ha what a party pooper! :-)

 

Well I'll have to see it when it gets here. 200 can $ is 138 euro. Not that big of a number. Also I liked I was buying from someone here. That's personal to me I guess.

 

But have to say you are almost calling the seller a liar about the flex and I kinda want to give him a chance to answer you. I did not expect such a "critique" and well yeah.

 

I'll have to see how I feel about the nib when it gets here. Thanks for the informations!

 

 

Take no notice of any 'party poopers' on here and enjoy your pen in the best of health. I'm sure you will love it and agree that your excitement while you were waiting for it was worthwhile.

[BillH]

I agree, just enjoy your new pen. We don't get a vote.

 

I've noticed that over time what I paid for this or that pen is forgotten, unless I take trouble to look it up. Only thing that matters each day is, man, I like this pen! And there are some "man, I love this pen"s in the nest boxes. I'm glad to have each one. Wait, I take that back... I could "misplace" the clear yellow Duo and wouldn't miss it

 

Whether it is a Sheaffer School Pen or one of the Pelikans, some I paid up for and some I got at a bargain. But like I said, I'd have to look it up now to tell you which is which. You will get there too, I think.

[iznogood]

Want to thank everyone once again. I'll have to reread everything familly life here made it so I only had minutes everytime and there are exhaustive poasts about my pen that I rally want to reread.

I promise when it gets here (tracking already up) I'll update and post pictures and answer questions.

 

Also no worries no body's party pooping my party but me!

[sargetalon]

Beautiful M400. I have one from the very early run of these and love it. A springy, expressive nib married to a classy looking pen. Not much to not like there. Enjoy it!

[Cryptos]

#iznogood, congrats on a lovely pen! As there is no internationally accepted standard classification of flexibility in nibs, the seller can only describe to the best of their knowledge.

 

Note: Waterman (for example) only designated four degrees of flexibility for their #5 and #7 nibs thus: more flexible than Pink (Black nib), flexible (Pink nib), not as flexible as Pink (Brown nib), semi-flexible (Red nib). It's kinda hard to argue with this seeing as it is their own description of their own nibs.