If You Are Into Journaling, Please Stop Here....

[ibrahim]

I love to write and write...I have a pilot falcon, a pelicano, and some Energel pens.

I used to have Lamy 2000 but didn't like the toothy feeling of its nib and the 2 tabs on each side, so I gave it away.

I used to have Faber castell and it was a bit on the heavy side, it felt like writing with a metal object from the tool box....

I love to write and write.. I hear Pelikan m800 has a buttery smooth feeling and I love that and want that in a pen, but: 1. the grip section is short and I don't like to hold the threads. I wish their grip section was longer!

2. price is a bit too expensive, for just a pen, and I not a flashy person. I mean I don't like to waste money on a pen.

All I have is the Pilot falcon and the pelicano for students

If you were me, what would you go out of your way to buy so you can keep journaling and journaling? I love the buttery smooth feeling of a nib, I like for the grip section to be comfortable so I can write and write...

I heard Platinum 3776 has a nib that sings and I had a bad experience before with Platinum Preppy. We bought a couple of them and the went to the garbage, complete waste of money.

I don't like a nib to be a nail. Pakers 51 has a nail, toothy.

What would you recommend for a writer like me who is trying to protect his hands from writer's bumps, etc.? I once got a A writer's callus and it was such a pain to get rid of them. I still have a bit of callus. At that time, I was writing with a Waterman Phileas. I loved its buttery smooth feeling but it was not ergonomic enough.

Please share your tips of advice and experience here and millions of thanks.

Edited March 23, 2017 by ibrahim

[sidthecat]

You might want to get one of those rubber sleeves that are actually made for pencils. I have to slice them open and wrap them around the section, but they protect you from gripping too hard.

You might also want to look into a slant table.

 

And train yourself not to press too hard.

[Namo]

I am not sure what you are asking for. I do have a callus from writing too, and I developed that from holding my pens wrong. It took me three days to change it and solve the problem (I still have a bump). Try and look for tripod grip.

 

As for your questions about a new pen: if you can, try them first. I know nothing about the m800, but the 3776 does have a responsive nib. I write with a B Platinum and it feels like writing with a pencil. I love the feeling, but it's not the "bitter smooth" feeling you are looking for IMHO.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Namo

[Parker51]

I suggest a Pilot 823. Great nibs, about the size of a Pelkan 800 and typically lower in price.

[Fuzzy_Bear]

I use an M201, M100, Lamy Al-Star, TWSBI 580 and Eco, plus others. I use them all. Some have a bit of tooth, the EF nibs more than the M or B nibs.

 

Some sing, those are fun. I have the Phileas as well. Butter smooth after fixing the nib. As for calluses, mine are near finger length in all but the pinkie and ring fingers. I work with my hands.

 

What pen is right for you? That's personal. I suggest playing with pens at a store or show.

 

What was it about the Phileas that was not ergonomic?

Edited March 23, 2017 by Fuzzy_Bear

[ac12]

If you are getting "writers bump" then you are gripping your pen TOO TIGHT.

Lighten up on your grip.

 

Today, most every pen is a nail.

If you are feeling the nib "flex" in any of today's pens, you are also pressing down on the pen too hard.

Again, lighten up.

 

If you want flex, get a dip pen. I did.

 

If you want a SMOOTH writing pen, then go up to a Medium nib. And write on hard smooth paper.

In general, the finer the nib, the scratchier it will feel. Because the finer nibs will follow the texture on the surface of the paper more so than a wider nib.

[Arkanabar]

If you want super smoothness, you probably ought to either obtain the services of a nibmeister, or learn to smooth nibs a bit yourself. Multi-packs of super cheap pens from India and/or China are probably the way to go. Also, look for Mr. Binder's nib-smoothing clinic.

 

I agree with others that you're gripping with too much force. Long, easy sessions come from a combination of a nearly slack grip and moving your pen using only muscles above your shoulder (arm writing). You shouldn't be using any muscles in your forearm, or movements of the wrist and fingers, to write. There are a number of helpful posts on this site. Teach yourself that, and odds are that what you find comfortable will almost certainly change, and likely expand.

[eharriett]

I was going to make the same suggestion ac12 made. A callus means you're gripping too tightly. I had the same problem. It comes from decades of writing with ballpoints. I bought a book on handwriting and that caused me to slow everything down and by doing that, I discovered I was gripping too hard.

 

I'm not sure if this is a hard and fast rule, but my understanding is the broader the nib, the smoother it is. So theoretically an M is smoother than an F. But the one Bock nib I had that was an F was the smoothest I'd ever had. Closely followed by several F Watermans I have. Then I get into the mediums.

 

As far as everything else, I'm going out of your price range, but I believe this will solve your issue: get a Karas Kustoms pen. They are aluminum. No flaws, extremely smooth. And those super duper smooth Bock nibs I mentioned are on those pens.

[Mech-for-i]

I humbly suggest you taking a hard look at how you hold, maneuver, and handle the pen when writing .. cause what you are saying tells that you are probably having a bad time because of bad hand posture , grip, and wrist / finger / arm movements. Nail like hrd nib can also write smooth, its about whether the tip is grounded right and whether the writing is done right . And in your case you might want to examinfe your journal-ling habit. do you write on paper that contribute or hamper usage of fountain pen, do the paper size and content dictate the sixe of writing which in turn might limit your choice of nibs.

[BradGad]

Lots of good advice about proper technique, but I thought you were just asking for a pen recommendation for journaling.

 

I'm with Parker51 on this... give the Pilot Custom 823 a serious look. It is a lovely writer, very comfortable to hold for long sessions, and has a massive reservoir.

 

I love my journal... it's my constant companion, and I fill up a Seven Seas Writer notebook (480 pages) every two months. I use the 823 for journaling a lot, though I also have a real soft spot for the much more lowly Pilot Prera.

[bigkahuna]

If you were me, what would you go out of your way to buy so you can keep journaling and journaling? I love the buttery smooth feeling of a nib, I like for the grip section to be comfortable so I can write and write...

 

You want "buttery smooth". In general, and assuming proper tine alignment and adequate finishing of the tipping material, smoothness is inversely proportional to fineness... or put another way, broader nibs tend to be smoother than finer nibs. A medium is generally smoother than an extra-fine, and a double-broad is smoother than a medium. Complicating matters is that a nib of any given size can usually be made smoother through tuning (tine alignment, polishing, etc.). So, most nibs can be made "smoother" or at least "smooth enough" if you are willing to tune them (either by doing it yourself or paying a nib technician).

 

The contrary requirement is the nib size related to the purpose of this pen: journaling. Most people prefer a medium or smaller nib for journaling, since most journal pages are relatively smaller than A4 or 8.5x11 paper common in business and academia. Here's a question for you: how big is your journal handwriting, and what nib size is most appropriate for it?

 

So, it would seem that you are trying to balance two contrary requirements: the smoothness of a larger nib versus the fineness required to write in a journal. Logic dictates that you select the broadest nib possible that allows you to write at the size necessary for efficient journaling. If you write very small, then you may need a Fine nib. If it is not smooth enough, tune it (or have it tuned) to increase its smoothness. If your handwriting is a bit larger, then a Medium nib might be most appropriate... and if necessary, tune it to optimal smoothness.

 

IF you are not willing/able to tune your nib, then your alternative course of action is to select a larger nib size in the hopes of achieving acceptable smoothness and adapt your handwriting to it.

 

Your other requirements pertained to ergonomics and the comfort of the grip section. There are many factors involved ergonomics and comfort, so I broke your post down into components to consider each requirement individually.

 

 

I used to have Lamy 2000 but didn't like the toothy feeling of its nib and the 2 tabs on each side, so I gave it away.

 

OK. You don't like toothy nibs or things which interfere with your grip on the pen. First thing that comes to my mind are the Pilot Elite 95S pens (Medium and Fine versions) that I bought for my kids and myself. Similarly to the Parker 51, the E95S barrel and grip section are one continguous component... so there is nothing to interfere with your grip. Another pen that comes to mind is the Faber Castell Loom in Medium or Fine... again, no interference with the grip unless the small raised rings bother you.

 

 

I used to have Faber castell and it was a bit on the heavy side, it felt like writing with a metal object from the tool box....

 

Pilot Elite 95S is about 15 grams. Definitely not on the heavy side. The FC Loom is significantly heavier, so let's remove that from the candidate list.

 

 

I love to write and write.. I hear Pelikan m800 has a buttery smooth feeling and I love that and want that in a pen, but: 1. the grip section is short and I don't like to hold the threads. I wish their grip section was longer!

 

2. price is a bit too expensive, for just a pen, and I not a flashy person. I mean I don't like to waste money on a pen.

 

My daughter's Pilot Elite 95S with 14K Medium nib is "buttery smooth" (but the Fine has a touch of feedback). Grip section is long (about half the pen) with no threads to interfere with your grip. Price is nowhere close to a Pelikan M800... the PE95S can be found on ebay for under $100 USD including shipping.

 

 

I heard Platinum 3776 has a nib that sings and I had a bad experience before with Platinum Preppy. We bought a couple of them and the went to the garbage, complete waste of money.

 

I have a Platinum 3776. My 3776 nib does not sing, nor would I care if it did. (I have another pen that sings. It doesn't bother me in the least). It is my opinion that the 3776 is a great pen, and is one of my personal favorites for many reasons. It is also my opinion that a Preppy cannot be compared to a 3776.

 

 

I don't like a nib to be a nail. Pakers 51 has a nail, toothy.

Hmmm... The definition of "nail" can vary a bit from person to person. Allow me to suggest that calling a nib a "nail" relates to a high degree of stiffness rather than "toothiness." I consider my Platinum 3776 to be very close to a nail (again, in terms of stiffness), with just a slight amount of springiness to the nib. Its 14K gold Coarse nib (a.k.a. "Cosu" or "Cors") is incredibly broad, incredibly smooth and the furthest thing from "toothy" that I can imagine. The line it draws is ridiculously thick, and I would never consider journaling with it... but it is smooth.

 

The other pen I mentioned, the Pilot Elite 95S, is a little springier still... but I have heard that many consider it nail-like. My daughter's E95S has a very smooth 14K Medium nib (actually a very fat medium in comparison to my other Japanese mediums) that provides a mere hint of feedback... nothing I would consider toothy.

 

 

 

What would you recommend for a writer like me who is trying to protect his hands from writer's bumps, etc.? I once got a A writer's callus and it was such a pain to get rid of them. I still have a bit of callus. At that time, I was writing with a Waterman Phileas. I loved its buttery smooth feeling but it was not ergonomic enough.

 

I agree with ac12 and the other folks about this... your technique and tightness of grip are contributors to writer's callus. To me, the key benefit of writing with a fountain pen is that it does not require a tight grip or firm pressure to put ink onto paper. It takes practice to lighten one's grip, but it is well worth it to achieve a stress-free writing experience. An interesting observation from my personal penmanship training: as I practiced lightening my grip and improving my technique, the ergonomic idiosyncrasies of particular pens seemed to matter less. Example: grip section threads are far less bothersome since I'm no longer attempting to crush the pen like a vise.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Big_Kahuna

[sirgilbert357]

I fill up a Seven Seas Writer notebook (480 pages) every two months.

 

 

Edited March 23, 2017 by sirgilbert357

[Arkamas]

I get some Italian leather journals that I love from Barnes and Noble. If I had the money I would buy up all the ones I could get my hands on. I plan to fill up a couple shelves on a bookcase with them. Right now my go-to pen has been my Pilot Lucina with Noodlers Black. It would be my Custom 74 but the fine nib doesn't work as wet with the combination of Noodler's black and thick paper. I may get a Black 3776 for it.

[dadbar]

You must be a victim of sampling error. My two Parker 51 pens are buttery smooth and very pleasant for journaling.

 

You might want to consider one of the first generation ST Dupont Classique pens. I have 3 used ones and all three are buttery smooth. I have a fine, medium and broad nib....these are all great writers and they have a very comfortable and long grip section with up and down ribs which are very comfortable. I would actually recommend the fine nib because it is smooth and you would get less bleed through on the paper. My favorite has the Lacque du Chine Chinese lacquer which feels exquisite.....very cushy to the touch. These pens are not that expensive used (~$100) and fly very far under the radar.

 

Note that if you buy a used one, it may not necessarily have a working converter. No worries though. These pens take Parker cartridges and you can use the narrow profile tapered Parker aerometric converter in them. The Pilot Con-50 will also work if you want a piston thing. If you try to use international standard cartridges or converters in these early generation pens, they won't work, although the later Dupont pens will take them. The later pens have shorter sections and caps....whereas the earlier pens have a cap that is almost as long as the barrel....to hold the long section (about as long or longer than a Parker 45 section).

 

I also have about 10 Parker 75 pens and these are also really nice writers. Most of these have a triangular grip that feels very comfy too.

Edited March 23, 2017 by dadbar

[eharriett]

I get some Italian leather journals that I love from Barnes and Noble. If I had the money I would buy up all the ones I could get my hands on. I plan to fill up a couple shelves on a bookcase with them. Right now my go-to pen has been my Pilot Lucina with Noodlers Black. It would be my Custom 74 but the fine nib doesn't work as wet with the combination of Noodler's black and thick paper. I may get a Black 3776 for it.

You bring up a good point and reminder I need to look into. I began with a B&N journal and moved to an Etsy handcrafted one. Both have similar paper. I am thinking I need to go somewhere else because, while this paper is really decent for what I am trying to accomplish, it just absorbs any kind of luster or fun out of fountain pen ink. I think everyone who makes journals say "oh yeah, our paper will work fine with fountain pens" without actually understanding what it is we look for. I may need to sacrifice a cool cover on my next journal to go for a standard cover to see if I can get nicer paper for the type of pen I want to write in.

[Calabria]

I would try a Sailor ProGear or 1911 large with a M nib.

[Arkamas]

You bring up a good point and reminder I need to look into. I began with a B&N journal and moved to an Etsy handcrafted one. Both have similar paper. I am thinking I need to go somewhere else because, while this paper is really decent for what I am trying to accomplish, it just absorbs any kind of luster or fun out of fountain pen ink. I think everyone who makes journals say "oh yeah, our paper will work fine with fountain pens" without actually understanding what it is we look for. I may need to sacrifice a cool cover on my next journal to go for a standard cover to see if I can get nicer paper for the type of pen I want to write in.

 

It's an excellent journal with good quality paper. They're made in Tuscany and you can even get refills for them if you want. I've used various pens with it and I like to use bulletproof ink for journaling. My C74 with a fine nib is the first that's had a little more trouble just because the nib was drier than I've had. I've tuned it since then but I have yet to try it again with the Noodler's, but a western fine or Japanese medium or even a wet Japanese fine will do well on it with that ink from what I've seen. Otherwise any ink or nib should work fine. I would say the paper quality is close to the Clairfontaine Triomphe pads I use. It's incredibly satisfying to write in. I'm on number 3 of my set with a fourth waiting to be filled. Even at $40 I love them but you might be able to find them for cheaper sometimes on ebay.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Arkamas

[sandy101]

A (second hand) Montblanc 146 might suit you. Light, good grip and it just writes, writes and writes.

 

The #3776 is good pen to go with - the nib is nicer than the one on the Plasir, but it is not buttery smooth - at least the medium grips the paper - I'm not saying it is scratchy, far from it, but if you want a smooth experience then this is not the pen for you. The Platinum Modern make-I might be worth looking at too. It has an 18k nib an did smoother than the #3776 and has a slight spring in its step.

 

Another alternative is the Cross Townsend. The 18k nib is a hard, but it lays down a nice line and just writes. it is reliable and cheaper than the MB.

[Polanova]

Just wrote for the first time with the M nib of a Sailor ProGear; that`s a really nice, smooth Western F nib. I`m surprised how nice it is! I love the Pro Gear model - in many ways a utilitarian, classy & excellent pen!

 

Modern Pelikan nibs, btw, are meh - totally overrated & not worth the bucks anyway.

 

As others have already mentioned: Get a grip on your grip

[DrDebG]

All of the above is worth considering.

 

For my journal, I really prefer the smoothness of Tomoe River paper. I use a Traveler's Notebook for my daily journal and generally go through the 013 refill about once every month or two. All of my pens behave wonderfully including my OB nib on my Italix Captain all the way down to the EF on my Kaigelu. I also use a number of notebooks for my work, including a Franklin Christoph notebook with sugarcane paper that is smooth but has a bit of toothiness to it. I also use Cambridge spiral notebook for some of my work. Some pens work well on the FC notebook and other on the Cambridge.

 

While it is easy to blame the pen, most of the time it is the combination of pen, paper and ink. I have very wet inks that don't perform well is some pens, and drier inks that perform wonderfully in very wet nibs.

 

And it is also how you hold your pen, how much pressure you use, etc. as others said above.

 

While I have many favorite pens, one of most versatile is my Lamy Studio with a medium14K nib. It does cost more, but it has been such a great pen for everything, including copy paper. Paired with a wet ink such as Pilot Iroshizuku Konpeki or Asa Gao, it is wonderful and glides effortlessly across the paper.

 

Looking forward to see what you decide.