Iroshuzuku Inks

[Magen178]

Hi Guys!

 

This is my first post but i've been reading a lot of content on this website since the past 2 months.

 

I did search on the internet and on this forum but did not find any relevant information on this topic.

 

I am wondering is the Iroshizuku ink can be used as an archival ink? I mostly use fountain pen for journalling and I would like to ensure this ink can be used for this and will be readable in 50 years from now.

 

Do you guys have any information about it?

 

I know these inks are supposed to be PH neutral but is it sufficient to considere these as archival safe?

 

Thanks in advance and nice to read you all!

 

Regards,

 

Mathieu

[bigkahuna]

***original text deleted, TMI***

 

Welcome to FPN Magen178!

 

I would not consider Iroshizuku inks to be archival.

Edited March 14, 2017 by bigkahuna

[zaddick]

No

[Noihvo]

[pajaro]

I have read here that these are supposed to be among the high maintenance inks, supposedly making good pen hygiene necessary, which I took to mean frequent flushing. I used them a bit in a couple of pens, a Carene and a Sheaffer Touchdown filler, and used them repeatedly without flushing, and they worked OK. Pens continue to work as well now with Sheaffer blue black in them. I think these are expensive for what they deliver, but they are OK.

[Witsius]

I've never heard of Iroshizuku inks being high maintenance, nor has that been my personal experience with them. Good pen hygiene should be followed no matter which ink you use. Iroshizuku inks flush out easily, and I have never read of anyone having issues because of these inks (some of the red inks can stain, but that's typical of red inks in general anyhow).

 

As to them being archival, no they are not, and only a scant few brands even make inks that are actually truly considered archival. If you want ink that absolutely will not fade, wash away, be bleached off, or is otherwise impervious to anything that won't also destroy the paper, Noodler's Black is your best bet. But that I would consider a somewhat high maintenance ink, much more so than Iroshizuku. That ink won't damage your pen, but it does contain a particulate component, and so if the pen is not cleaned somewhat regularly, you may get some clogging. It also leaves a residue behind that will not was off pen parts with regular flushing. It has to be physically wiped off.

 

Some iron gall inks such as Diamine Registrar's ink would be archival, but I would choose Noodler's Black over those any day of the week.

 

Honestly, most inks will probably survive a closed notebook just fine without actually being considered "archival." I would, however, avoid washable blue inks such as Pelikan 4001 Royal Blue or Waterman Serentiy Blue as these both fade noticably after just a short period. I've got stuff I've written with these inks that are only a year or two old, and they have faded to almost half their intensity. By contrast, things written with Iroshizuku inks (the color was tsuki-yo) from that same time are just a bold as the day they were written. Same with Iroshizuku shin-kai.

[ENewton]

I have read elsewhere that Iroshizuku inks tend to be not pH neutral, but alkaline.

[inkotheque]

If you are looking for Archival I'd rather look into some of the Noodler's inks or Platinum Carbon Black or Platinum Pigmented inks, with all the required attentions to pen hygiene required by pigments. But as Witsius rightly says "Good pen hygiene should be followed no matter which ink you use".

[Sandy1]

 

Hi,

 

A fair bit has been written about longevity of documents written with FP ink, and I have no doubt that there is more to come - which is a good thing.

 

These prior Topics should give some insight / context:

> https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/265201-inky-t-o-d-have-you-ever-had-an-ink-fade/?p=2968309

> https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/278896-will-ink-fade-in-a-closed-notebook-stored-under-proper-conditions/?p=3193796

 

More to your point : If using a suitable paper, compliant with ISO 11108 or 9706, (look for the ♾ symbol), your risk exposure is reduced, and I reckon that by using a Blue-centric or Black ink your risk exposure is further reduced.

 

Unfortunately the cellulose-reactive inks have not been around long enough to have a track record, so fingers crossed that they perform as claimed.

 

As a matter of person practice, when I want to produce an enduring document, an iron-gall ink and 100% cotton paper are invited to the party. (I am soooo boring.)

 

Bye,

S1

Edited March 15, 2017 by Sandy1

[amberleadavis]

Most (I think it is actually all) Iroshizuku inks are not waterproof, therefore, they cannot be archival. One rainstorm or flood and all the work is gone.

 

HOWEVER, some of the Iroshizuku inks were quite fade resistant. Check out the fade olympics here: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/248800-fade-olympics-2013-sponsored-by-t-l-v-p-p/

[Sandy1]

Most (I think it is actually all) Iroshizuku inks are not waterproof, therefore, they cannot be archival. One rainstorm or flood and all the work is gone.

 

HOWEVER, some of the Iroshizuku inks were quite fade resistant. Check out the fade olympics here: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/248800-fade-olympics-2013-sponsored-by-t-l-v-p-p/

 

My Dearest amberleadavis,

 

Water / fade resistance are not related to archival properties, rather they are widely used to infer 'permanence' of an ink, while to my way of thinking they indicate 'current robustness'. However those are simply the wrong units to measure archival properties, though they are useful to identify risks, such as those posed by Washable inks.

 

__ __

 

Archival : adjective

1. of or relating to archives or valuable records; contained in or comprising such archives or records.

 

It is the job of the Archivist to ensure the records in the archive are available for as long as needs be. (Most of us are our own Archivist for personal records, such as journals.)

 

Indeed I would suggest that the diligence of the Archivist is the most important aspect of ensuring longevity of documents.

 

Basics such as appropriate paper and ink, plus environmental protection (water/fire-proof container), and making copies to be stored off-site takes a bit of time, money and effort, but does everyone want to go that far? Evaluate the risks: Pick and choose - get it wrong, you lose.

 

I do not keep a journal, so it appears that my letters to others constitute my 'journal', so as the sands of time shift around us, I let posterity take care of itself.

 

Bye,

S1

Edited March 17, 2017 by Sandy1

[Witsius]

Most (I think it is actually all) Iroshizuku inks are not waterproof, therefore, they cannot be archival. One rainstorm or flood and all the work is gone.

 

HOWEVER, some of the Iroshizuku inks were quite fade resistant. Check out the fade olympics here: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/248800-fade-olympics-2013-sponsored-by-t-l-v-p-p/

 

 

Glad to see your fade test shows Asa Gao to be quite robust. I just got a bottle, and I've been looking for a blue that won't fade into obscurity after only a year or so. Looks like I made a good choice, and the color is awesome to boot.

[Tinjapan]

I have been wondering if the concern of being "archival", fade resistant or even waterproof is really necessary. I have seen many letters, journals, logs etc. written in the mid 19th century that are readily legible. These include muster reports from the army in the field, ships's logs, letters and journals by sailors and soldiers, written and kept in conditions that few today have to deal with. Then there are documents I see in musurms here in Japan that are hundreds of years old yet often look brand new, worm holes being the only indication that they are not.

 

Unless you are wanting to display your writting in a sunny room, how important is lightfastness? Waterproof would be important for an address lable and perhaps the letter, but for less than vital records, is it really needed?

 

Were these concerns of the great authors whose hand written manuscripts still facinate us today?

[CAG_1787]

In a closed notebook, on a shelf, in a normal humidity environment, on good paper, something written in Iroshizuku should last well longer than 50 years. It's hard to say unequivocally because there's so many vendors. Frankly, given the way paper is made these days, I'd be more worried about the paper than the ink.

[JakobS]

I have been wondering if the concern of being "archival", fade resistant or even waterproof is really necessary. I have seen many letters, journals, logs etc. written in the mid 19th century that are readily legible. These include muster reports from the army in the field, ships's logs, letters and journals by sailors and soldiers, written and kept in conditions that few today have to deal with. Then there are documents I see in musurms here in Japan that are hundreds of years old yet often look brand new, worm holes being the only indication that they are not.

 

Unless you are wanting to display your writting in a sunny room, how important is lightfastness? Waterproof would be important for an address lable and perhaps the letter, but for less than vital records, is it really needed?

 

Were these concerns of the great authors whose hand written manuscripts still facinate us today?

 

 

I agree that the demand for fade and waterproof inks can get a little out of hand, and is unnecessary in many instances. But, the inks of the 19th century and many centuries previous will often be inks with pigments or iron gall as a component of their formation, and thus do have an "archival" aspect to them. That's not to say that any dye based inks that existed during that time were incapable of sustaining, but that inks did not have to be as water soluble to be useable as they do with fountain pens. Thus, intentional or not, inks often were created from components that provided for an ability to sustain through numerous types of storage or display.

Edited March 17, 2017 by JakobS

[white_lotus]

Regarding inks prior to the 20th century, not only were they often iron gall inks, but people wrote with nib pens. Fountain pens did not exist until the early 20th century. And even well into mid-century, the US Post Office was using iron gall inks and steel nib pens for their archival qualities.

[amberleadavis]

 

My Dearest amberleadavis,

 

Water / fade resistance are not related to archival properties, rather they are widely used to infer 'permanence' of an ink, while to my way of thinking they indicate 'current robustness'. However those are simply the wrong units to measure archival properties, though they are useful to identify risks, such as those posed by Washable inks.

 

__ __

 

Archival : adjective

1. of or relating to archives or valuable records; contained in or comprising such archives or records.

 

It is the job of the Archivist to ensure the records in the archive are available for as long as needs be. (Most of us are our own Archivist for personal records, such as journals.)

 

Indeed I would suggest that the diligence of the Archivist is the most important aspect of ensuring longevity of documents.

 

Basics such as appropriate paper and ink, plus environmental protection (water/fire-proof container), and making copies to be stored off-site takes a bit of time, money and effort, but does everyone want to go that far? Evaluate the risks: Pick and choose - get it wrong, you lose.

 

I do not keep a journal, so it appears that my letters to others constitute my 'journal', so as the sands of time shift around us, I let posterity take care of itself.

 

Bye,

S1

 

 

As always, I learn so much from you. Thank you.

[amberleadavis]

Tinjapan, I debate the topic myself. I can tell you that I've read my greatgrandmothers' journals and the faded receipts from our business and I've tried to read recent receipts that were left out in the sun for a few minutes. (Thermal print in Las Vegas....you get the idea).

 

I've also seen my great grandmother's scrapbooks and photos. The water damage was the awful. The heat in Nevada did less damage than a single flood / hurricane / tornado in Missouri. I can also say that the inks which held up well in the fade tests, did well in regular use and were not the ones that faded in closed books. (The ones that faded in closed books were the ones that disintegrated the fastest in the fade tests). The light is a mechanism to speed up the deterioration process.

 

For my own journals, I use fading inks and then write over top of them with fade resistant inks. In 50 years, we will see what happens.

[Tinjapan]

Well I knew that iron gall was common in ink but also knew that ink corroding pen nibs was also an issue leading to many different attempts to solve the problem. Some focused on the nib material others on the composition of the ink. What I did not recall was that they need not be water soluble. Thanks for all the information.

[Tinjapan]

I was also not aware of ink fading in closed books. So, it would seem that the concern over ink fading is much more called for than I believed.

 

Thanks.