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Eye Dropper And Burping


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15 replies to this topic

#1 Jobesmirage

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 19:09

So after months of negotiations and waiting, I was able to get my hands on a few Ratnamson  pens which is very cool.  Ive been trying to get my hands on some for quite a bit.  Now an issue I've found is that the nib/feeds they came with are very prone to burping.  Even when just generally writing, when newly filled the pens have a tendency to drip out of the pen.  

 

Im not even trying to "shake" the pen, just positioning the pen to write results in some ink on the paper.

 

Can others help me find a solution to this problem?  The nib and feed on this particular pen that I am experimenting with holds a #5 nib and I will try to put a FPR replacement feed on the pen and heat set it to see how it writes but I am not sure itll be effective.

 

Please advise



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#2 fly_us

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 06:49

So after months of negotiations and waiting, I was able to get my hands on a few Ratnamson  pens which is very cool.  Ive been trying to get my hands on some for quite a bit.  Now an issue I've found is that the nib/feeds they came with are very prone to burping.  Even when just generally writing, when newly filled the pens have a tendency to drip out of the pen.  

 

Im not even trying to "shake" the pen, just positioning the pen to write results in some ink on the paper.

 

Can others help me find a solution to this problem?  The nib and feed on this particular pen that I am experimenting with holds a #5 nib and I will try to put a FPR replacement feed on the pen and heat set it to see how it writes but I am not sure itll be effective.

 

Please advise

 

That's is the biggest flaw of ED. When the air inside the barrel get warm by your hand, it expands and the ink burps. 

 

The most obvious solution is keep the ink full, so no space for the air to expand. But it kinda defeat the purpose of ED. Or before you write, hold the pen with full palm, nib up and make sure it gets warm a bit to avoid this.



#3 gerigo

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 09:31

First, it's important to set your expectations that these pens are not going to behave and function in the same way as regular pens. The unique characteristics of an ED primarily stems from these ebonite feeds and their inability to take up excess ink during the ink air exchange.

 

There are 2 things you have to do.

 

1. Fill the pen to the brim. This will prevent burping because burping comes from the air ink exchange. If you eliminate the air, you eliminate the problem.

2. Warm the pen with your hands before writing, with the nib facing up. That's because when you warm the air, it escapes through the nib. Whereas if you did it with the pen facing down, it will burp ink during the initial air/ ink exchange.



#4 amk

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 09:47

I don't remember the link but Hari posted a great guide to filling eyedroppers on FPN a while back. As I remember the trick is to screw the section half way in, then invert the pen while screwing it all the way in, allowing a little drip from the nib as you do.

 

Modifying the feed is probably the best way to deal with burping; more modern feeds (eg Sheaffer nononsense) have more fins giving more buffering between the ink reservoir and the outside world.

 

Maupropria's eyedropper solution is also worth considering, though it would be a waste if your ED is a demonstrator.


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#5 grainweevil

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 09:54

I don't remember the link but Hari posted a great guide to filling eyedroppers on FPN a while back.

 

Here we are



#6 mhguda

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 11:32

Heat setting the nib & feed could go a long way to solving your blurping problem, but you could also first try seating the assembly a little deeper into the section. And maybe turning it around a little bit, feeling for the tightest fit. You obviously have an air leak, and you need to seal that. I've found that sometimes adjusting how the nib and feed sit inside the section is enough to eliminate those small leaks. Then if that does not help, heat set them with the hot water method. 30 seconds in the water, then with thumb and index finger (protected!) press down on the nib & feed, then repeat. Usually two or three repetitions is enough.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!


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#7 Sasha Royale

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 21:23

As I understand, the eyedropper system is used, when someone does not have a more modern ink reservoir system.  

1)   Nineteenth Century ink pens pre-date self-filling mechanisms.  

2)   Inexpensive ink pens save production cost, by omitting the self-fill mechanism.

3)   Intrepid FPN people sometimes enjoy the "challenge of dodging the ink burp".  

So, what is it about cartridge pens and piston pens that you like not so much ?  


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#8 Jamerelbe

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 22:18

So, what is it about cartridge pens and piston pens that you like not so much ?  

 

I'm not sure I saw anyone on this thread saying they don't like cartridge or piston pens?  Ratnamson pens, like a lot of other Indian manufacturers, seem to favour the simplicity of making their pens (body and feed) from ebonite, and relying on an eyedropper fill rather than paying (and charging) extra $$ to install a cartridge filler or to design a piston fill mechanism.  

 

Ranga and Asa Pens now tend to offer a cartridge converter option (with Schmidt or JoWo nibs), and personally I much prefer this (you can usually still eyedropper them if you want) - but if you want a more "traditional" style Indian pen, especially in ebonite, you may still choose to buy an eyedropper version...



#9 JakobS

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 22:26

As I understand, the eyedropper system is used, when someone does not have a more modern ink reservoir system.  
1)   Nineteenth Century ink pens pre-date self-filling mechanisms.  
2)   Inexpensive ink pens save production cost, by omitting the self-fill mechanism.
3)   Intrepid FPN people sometimes enjoy the "challenge of dodging the ink burp".  
So, what is it about cartridge pens and piston pens that you like not so much ?


The filling system is not the issue, but the feed and nib that are used with it. If you have a feed that can handle the influx of ink that is pushed out of the barrel by heated air, as most modern feeds can, this is not an issue. If the feed is seated properly through heat, or physical adjustment an eyedropper with an simple feed can avoid burping as well.

I find Asa pens to be really decent at avoiding burping if you choose to have it tested before shipping when buying the ED filler version with one of their nibs.

Edited by JakobS, 13 March 2017 - 22:33.

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#10 mhguda

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 12:05

The filling system is not the issue, but the feed and nib that are used with it. If you have a feed that can handle the influx of ink that is pushed out of the barrel by heated air, as most modern feeds can, this is not an issue. If the feed is seated properly through heat, or physical adjustment an eyedropper with an simple feed can avoid burping as well.

I find Asa pens to be really decent at avoiding burping if you choose to have it tested before shipping when buying the ED filler version with one of their nibs.

This was just brought home to me again this morning, as I refilled my Asa Transnauka. There was very little ink left in the barrel, but no indications of blurping, not even an increase in flow... and indeed, every pen I buy from them I ask to have tested. Good point, Jakob. Of course the Naukas have these relatively short barrels and long sections, which has been brought up as a way of preventing blurps in another thread here... somewhere.


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#11 ak2k5

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 12:42

My only ED that doesn't burp is ASA Galactic with a jowo nib and ebonite feed. its a curious case because same feed in ASA maya with custom nib burps every time the ink level goes down.


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#12 Jobesmirage

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 14:34

I think that the feed may be the issue... I replaced the feed with a FPR feed and not it doesnt burp at all however when I give the pen a little shake I still see ink coming out (although in much smaller droplets).  I mean Im not shaking it aggressively however it seems that these pens are a little wet with the feeds...

 

The pen is too thin to take the Sheaffer Feeds... which I would normally replace the feed with... any ideas? 



#13 mhguda

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 20:33

Maybe carve the side channels a little, so that their buffering capacity increases?


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#14 MuddyWaters

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 21:14

this doesn't happen with my kaweco classic sport, how come?


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#15 Jobesmirage

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 01:02

this doesn't happen with my kaweco classic sport, how come?

YOU GAVE ME A CRAZY idea... Im going to try and use that feed for this Ratnamson pen... will get back to you guys in a week to tell you how it goes



#16 amk

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 11:15

I have been told that besides cost. one reason for use of eyedroppers in non-temperate climates is that they avoid the use of a perishable rubber sac or diaphragm. French manufacturer Kaolo carried on making eyedroppers well into the 1950s, I believe, for sale across the French overseas territories.


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