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Dark Iron Gall Ink (Black Or Close To Black)

iron gall

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36 replies to this topic

#21 Tasmith

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 02:55

Sorry I didn't get these scanned and posted sooner (the last few days have been crazy) and I was just exhausted last night.

fpn_1488936623__akkerman_10_ijzer-galnot

 

 

fpn_1488936854__kwzi_ig_blue-black_detai

Hope the scans help.  The Akkerman has more shading, the KWZI is bluer, but also darker and more saturated looking.  The scans aren't the best, and I cropped out a lot of extraneous stuff, like little sketches and samples of similar inks; but they give a reasonable representation of what the two inks look like (even on crappy paper).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

edited for typos (someone just came over to the house and my brain and fingers were not in sync...)

Excellent comparison.  Thank you.



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#22 Big_Kahuna

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 03:34

Awesome Ruth, thank you! I'll look at the scans more closely when i get to my PC... I'm remote right now and my little phablet screen sucks for viewing detailed images.

#23 Big_Kahuna

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 05:40

Hi Ruth,

 

The scans look great.  I find myself drawn more towards the KWZI #54 Blue Black, as it has less pronounced shading and appears darker overall.  I ordered some of this over the weekend and I can't wait to try it out!  Tried to find Akkerman #10 but it was listed as out of stock at the vendors I checked.  Thanks again for posting the scans!



#24 Big_Kahuna

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 05:52

Know these are not Iron Gall, yet take a look at Carbon nano particle inks. Both Platinum and Sailor have Black Carbon ink that are very water resistant, black and archival. Find to be well behaved, have proven to be light fast.

 

 

If you really want to start off with a black ink and have it be archival, your best bet would be micro pigmanted inks suggested above. 

 

Hi aderoy and JakobS,

 

I received my order for Sailor Kiwa Guro today (a carbon nano-pigmented ink), which I procured based on your recommendations.  WOW.  This is some BLACK ink.  Very well behaved, and very lubricious in my two test-bed pens (a Pilot Kakuno Fine and a Pilot Lucina Medium).  I tested both pens with Kiwa Guro for bleedthrough the cheap $#@! paper we use at work, and amazingly the Fine exhibited NO bleedthrough and the Medium (a very wet writer) exhibited only a very few minor bleed freckles.  The Kiwa Guro works at least as well as R&K Salix on this bleedthrough test.  I will be testing this ink in op-eval over the next several weeks.  Thank you both for the excellent recommendation. 



#25 Sandy1

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 11:48

Hi,

 

Some time ago I posted a few samples of diluted ESSRI blended with Turquoise and Blues inks in an attempt to 'Put the Blue back in Blue-Black', (http://www.fountainp...37-essri-mixes/), so I suppose a similar approach could be used to 'Take the Blue out of Blue-Black' by blending ESSRI or another large-bore I-G ink with a simple aniline dye Black ink.

 

:excl: Do not blend I-G inks with nano-particle inks. Been there done that, and narrowly avoided an event horizon.

 

Bye,

S1


The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#26 Big_Kahuna

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 15:47

 

Hi,

 

Some time ago I posted a few samples of diluted ESSRI blended with Turquoise and Blues inks in an attempt to 'Put the Blue back in Blue-Black', (http://www.fountainp...37-essri-mixes/), so I suppose a similar approach could be used to 'Take the Blue out of Blue-Black' by blending ESSRI or another large-bore I-G ink with a simple aniline dye Black ink.

 

:excl: Do not blend I-G inks with nano-particle inks. Been there done that, and narrowly avoided an event horizon.

 

Bye,

S1

 

 

 

Hi Sandy,

 

Thank you for linking your previous work in regards to mixes with IG and aniline dye ink.  Quite exciting and thought provoking stuff.  For black ink, I have some Pelikan Edelstein Onyx and Pilot Black; for IG, I currently have R&K Salix and expect delivery of KWZI IG Blue Black any day.  Perhaps some experimentation is in order... possibly involving PEO and KWZI-BlBlk...  Hmmmmm...  

 

Thanks also for the important safety tip warning about the risks of mixing the two types.  I wouldn't want to risk total protonic reversal!   :lticaptd:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=jyaLZHiJJnE

 

Kindest Regards,

bk


Edited by bigkahuna, 08 March 2017 - 15:48.


#27 tinta

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 19:31

Bk, have you considered using a nano carbon black like Sailor's Kiwa-Guro?  It's not ferrogallic but it sure is dark.


*Sailor 1911S, Black/gold, 14c. 0.8 mm. stub(JM) *1911S blue "Colours", 14c. H-B "M" BLS (PB) *2 Sailor 1911-M Burgundy/gold pens: 14c. 0.6 mm. "round-nosed" CI (MM) & 1.1 mm. CI (JM) *Sailor Pro-Gear Slim Spec. Ed. "Fire",14c. (factory) "H-B" *2 Kaweco SPECIAL fountain pens: 14c."M" "B",-0.5 mm & 0.7 mm stubs (PB) *Kaweco Stainless Steel Lilliput, 14c "B" -0.6 mm. stub (PB) *Montblanc 254, 14c. "BB" (1.1 mm?) flügelfeder factory stub

#28 Big_Kahuna

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 21:12

Bk, have you considered using a nano carbon black like Sailor's Kiwa-Guro?  It's not a ferrogallic but it sure is dark.

Yes, i just bought a bottle of Kiwa Guro based on some recommendations I received here on FPN. I have been using it this morning at work and I really like it so far.

I'm also waiting on delivery of KWZI Blue Black.

Edited by bigkahuna, 08 March 2017 - 21:13.


#29 Big_Kahuna

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 06:17

Hello everyone,

 

Just wanted post an update.

 

Based on the inputs I have received in this thread, I have procured and begun testing on KWZI IG Blue Black and Sailor Kiwa Guro inks.  Based on initial findings, I believe that both inks fully meet the requirements I defined in the original post (water resistance, etc.)

 

KWZI IG Blue Black is a great performer.  It's much "wetter" and lubricious than R&K Salix, goes down a much darker blue than Salix, and cures within minutes to a blue so dark that it is almost indistinguishable from black on high-quality papers (e.g. Maruman Mnemosyne, Kakuyo, Clairefontaine, Rhodia, etc.).  Strangely, it seems to take longer to cure to its fully-darkened state on my lower-quality papers.  My initial water-resistance testing is very promising, but I have yet to test water-test it after having cured for 24-72 hours.  I have this ink loaded in my test-bed Platinum 3776 Century with Cosu nib, and will evaluate its performance during my daily signatory work over the next work week.  More to follow.

 

Sailor Kiwa Guro is... amazing.  I know that in the OP I was inquiring about Iron Gall inks, but the recommendation for this nano-pigmented ink really appealed to me.  I have been using this ink at work for the past couple of days in two Pilot pens (a Fine Kakuno and a Medium Lucina).  It is incredibly dark... there may be blacker blacks, but this is plenty black enough for my needs.  It is an extremely well-behaved ink, with a really lubricious feel.  Water resistance has been utterly fantastic in several tests.   It performs well both in general use and for annotating marginalia on the very cheap paper we have at work.  It is not problematic in the least in terms of bleed, feather, spread, or echo.  Again, more to follow as I continue testing.

 

It's too soon to say that I've found my holy grail inks, but these inks are really impressive.  I'll continue posting updates as I learn more.  Thanks to all of you for your inputs and recommendations! 



#30 paviva

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 17:49

My work requires a lot of writing on generally very poor paper, so I've been using all kinds of IG inks (as no other ink can perform reasonably on cheap paper) for the last three years. 

 

For cheap paper, the best ink, and by far, is ESSRI. It's on the drier side indeed, so you do have to use a broad nib. The oxidation process takes a while; it will take at least 1-2 weeks before the ink cures almost black. After a month, the color is as black as any other black ink you can get. 

 

Unfortunately, ESSRI performs poorly on expensive papers like Tomoe River or Clairefontaine. On those papers, KWZi Blue-Black is better, wetter, and will turn black faster. Use a fine or medium nib with this one, as it is wetter than ESSRI. 

 

That being said, I think nano-based ink or any Noodler's eternal ink is your better bet on expensive, smooth paper, as IG inks don't have any performance advantage on those papers.



#31 Tasmith

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 14:17

One thing I've notced about R&K Salix is that it works well on some greeting card envelopes that are rather slick and would cause regular fountain pen inks to resist.



#32 Sandy1

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 14:37

My work requires a lot of writing on generally very poor paper, so I've been using all kinds of IG inks (as no other ink can perform reasonably on cheap paper) for the last three years. 

 

---

 

Unfortunately, ESSRI performs poorly on expensive papers like Tomoe River or Clairefontaine. On those papers, KWZi Blue-Black is better, wetter, and will turn black faster. Use a fine or medium nib with this one, as it is wetter than ESSRI. 

 

That being said, I think nano-based ink or any Noodler's eternal ink is your better bet on expensive, smooth paper, as IG inks don't have any performance advantage on those papers.

 

Hi,

 

Many thanks for sharing. :thumbup:

 

My experience is rather contrary to yours.

 

In my wee Review of ESSRI, that ink did very well indeed on Clairefontaine Triomphe. Though not very clearly expressed in that Topic, ESSRI will reveal shortcomings of a nib and pen handling.

 

There was a prior thread about rascals Members ditching CT @ http://www.fountainp...aine/?p=1996903

 

And I have found that cellulose-reactive inks want to bond with whatever bit of cellulose is available. so as a group there is a tendency for line-width gain (spread) greater than most simple aniline dye inks. Certainly within that group there are exceptions, such as 54th Massachusetts, which I have also reviewed.

 

No doubt that paper coating and calendering come into play, so we have even more choices. By sharing experience we can enable even more enjoyment.

 

Wheee!

 

Bye,

S1


Edited by Sandy1, 20 March 2017 - 07:11.

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#33 paviva

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 23:54

 

 

 

My experience is rather contrary to yours.

 

 

 

 

Very interesting ! 

 

How fast do you write ? I write **very** fast, and I find ESSRI dry enough to sometimes skip on TR and Clairefointaine -- and that never happens on copier paper. KWZi B-B, and all blues are wetter and I never had any skipping problems with them.

 

Totally agree about a greater spread with cellulose-based inks. 



#34 Sandy1

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 11:06

 

 

Very interesting ! 

 

How fast do you write ? I write **very** fast, and I find ESSRI dry enough to sometimes skip on TR and Clairefointaine -- and that never happens on copier paper. KWZi B-B, and all blues are wetter and I never had any skipping problems with them.

 

Totally agree about a greater spread with cellulose-based inks. 

 

Hi,

 

I write with a brisk light hand, making an effort to keep the nib running on the sweet spot. So you might try lightening the pressure on the nib - perhaps you are over-engaging / abrading the smooth coating. (?)

 

Here's the sample mentioned above. Four nibs of different type, vintage, wetness and width, including the flexi Waterman's, which I need to slow down.

 

5aa9af1b.jpg

 

As ever, we learn as we go, and differences can be frustrating, but not everything is a linear process. What works for one person may not work for another.

 

Edit to add : I wonder about Members' experience with ESSRI and Tomoe River - another 'slick' paper.

 

Bye,

S1


Edited by Sandy1, 24 March 2017 - 16:03.

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#35 sciumbasci

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 18:22

Stipula now offers a black iron gall ink

#36 neeman

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 10:26

Hi

First post :)

 

I use Diamine Registrar in a Bock EF nib, which is fairly dry, as my EDC

The ink dries to a very dark blue-black

It also shades nicely

 

If you have a wider and wetter nib, it would be close to black

 

It is very reasonably priced in the 100 ml plastic bottle



#37 Sandy1

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 11:57

Stipula now offers a black iron gall ink

 

Hi,

 

Thanks for adding to my bottomless To Do List :happyberet:

 

Bye,

S1


The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.






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