Philosophy Of Use For Functional "signature Pen", Any Recommendations?

[bigkahuna]

Howdy all!

 

I'm looking for input, feedback and knowledge from this great community of FP enthusiasts. If any of this resonates, please share your thoughts and wisdom :-)

 

It occurs to me that the pens I currently own do not meet my desires for a functional "signature pen". The primary use is for the dozens of signatures I write every day for work. It also occurs to me that I've used a Fischer Space Pen or Rite-in-the-Rain ball-point for this purpose for years without knowing any better, so this is a hedonistic pleasure that I'm after. This would make work a little more enjoyable, and I've come up with a few key criteria for such a pen. Please note that these are *my* criteria and I'm not intending to dictate any new definitions/criteria of a "signature pen" to anyone. Here are the criteria I have established so far:

 

1. Nib must be Western Broad or larger. Roundish stub or conventional spheroid tip for hasty signatures in odd locations (including the hood of a work vehicle, leaning over a co-workers desk or standing over a conference-room table). No crisp italics, cursive italics or anything that might catch paper if I'm not strictly controlling writing angles. Best materials are probably unplated 14K Gold or unplated stainless steel, because...

 

2. I plan on using Iron Gall ink for this pen, primarily for water resistance and permanence. I've been using R&K Salix and really like it, but I'm in the process of acquiring some other inks (KWZ, Hero 232, ESSRI, Diamine Registrar's). Many of these inks tend to be more "dry" than the my other inks (Pilot, Iroshizu, Diamine, Noodler's), hence my interest in item 3 below...

 

3. Pen must be Cartridge Converter format, and I plan to use cartridges filled via syringe. I'm afraid (perhaps unjustly) of running a piston fill system with IG ink that might precipitate harmful solids into the barrel's ink chamber and seals. The C/C system must allow a fairly "wet" inkflow rate with IG ink and not suffer from ink starvation with "dry" inks. I think this rules out "standard international" (SI) format. I've had some troubles with SI C/C: the cartridge/feed interface has a relatively small aperture, and seems to work best with a reasonably wet ink to prevent ink starvation. Moreover, the SI cartridges and converters have been prone to detaching inside my pens when subjected to any kind of shock (i.e., they don't seem to attach securely enough). The Pilot C/C system is the one I have the most experience with, and I love the huge cartridge aperture and extremely secure attachment. Not sure about the Platinum and Sailor C/C systems, so I'd welcome any input on those.

 

4. Pen must be easily disassembled and cleaned. I'm a little bit apprehensive about using IG ink without adequate maintenance intervals. The pen will receive flushes every fill, and detailed cleanings every 2-4 weeks until I can determine a better (hopefully less frequent) maintenance interval. So, I need to be able to get the nib and feed out without risking damage. If I can't meet this particular criteria, I could buy an ultrasonic cleaner if push comes to shove.

 

5. Screw-on cap. I might carry this pen in the placket of my polo shirt, and I don't want to find the pen inside my shirt underneath huge inkstains. This has already happened to me when I wore a snap-cap pen in my shirt. I post caps whenever possible to minimize loss.

 

6. Pen weight is not a concern. I enjoy 15 gram pens and 50 gram pens. Not sure how heavy is too heavy, but 50 grams is no problem.

 

7. Good basic ergonomics and balance, with a grip section diameter of at least 9.5 mm. I have fat powerlifter's fingers.

 

8. Unobtrusive threads that don't chew my fingers badly. I grip high on the pen, probably higher than most people. Step is okay if not extremely absurd like the step on the TWSBI Vac 700.

 

9. Professional appearance highly desirable... Innocuous in appearance tolerable.

 

10. Under $150 if possible, but I've been known to spend lots more than I initially planned on things I really like.

 

 

 

I've also found a few prospective pens as follows:

1. The Platinum 3776 Century with C nib (Cosu, Cors or Coarse depending on which source you read... basically a Double Broad nib). This is the least expensive option I've found.

2-4. The Pilot Custom 74, 742 or 743 with BB or C nib.

5. Sailor 1911 with Zoom nib

 

 

 

Any other recommendations? I welcome your thoughts and inputs!

 

 

 

Kindest Regards,

bigkahuna

[sandy101]

I think the #3776 will be a good choice for you. Certainly the slip & seal cap and the weight will work for you. The Platinum is rather wet, and I think they already have their own line of Iron Gall Ink - so you may even be able to get cartridges already inked.

[Bo Bo Olson]

In IG inks were standard of Blue Black inks, any piston pen would do as well. As long as you clean the pen every three months like the instructions use to say.....if you like every month.

You don't have to clean all the time, because you are re-filling the piston pen often and that is cleansing.

 

I mostly buy old pens that sat in the dark of a drawer for a generation or two. If after sucking water into the pen, the ink comes out in the half filled bathroom sink in a nice cloud; it was the worlds best ink for having dry up in a Pen....Royal Blue (anyone's royal blue...MB, Pelikan, Lamy, Geha).

If it comes out in dark 'strings' it's the old BB of yesteryear and will take three times longer to clean than the great Royal blue.

It will still clean out after 20-50 years in the pen.

 

Only red and purple cause trouble with piston windows not R&K IG inks....or I'd worry and fret.

 

I have a Vintage BBB oblique signature pen that is too wide....so modern B or vintage BB (=B1/2 mostly) would do. I find BBB maxi-semi-flex oblique too wide, needing at least 2/3's of a sheet of paper for a legal three word name.

 

'50-65 German pens like MB, Pelikan, Geha or Osmia/O-F-C have stubbish, semi-flex nibs that give flair to your writing. If you get an oblique of that era even more flair. They will be 1/2 a width narrower than the modern fat and blobby nibs.

Right now I have a '54 Pelikan B semi-flex nib on my modern 605 Pelikan and that nib is .

 

I do not advise the modern fat and blobby semi-nail 400/600 nibs.

 

and there are so many very, very pretty 600's....and go to Penboard. de for a '50-65 semi-flex 14K B nib....or BB if you want something B 1/2 in modern. That will be a good nib....if oblique OB even better......that would be like a modern Fat M in today's nibs....but with flair and line variation 'on demand'.

Stubb and CI is always max 100%.

[sandy101]

Platinum's blue black ink is iron gall - it comes in bottles, or in boxes of ten.

[sirgilbert357]

I'm sure you may already know this, but Japanese nibs aren't as wide as "western" ones. So if you want a western broad, you should certainly try to see the pens on your list in person or buy from a reputable source that allows returns. You may find a Japanese broad to be closer to a western medium...although, my Pilot Decimo (and Vanishing Point uses the same nib system) is a medium and is a true western medium in my opinion. That isn't the "screw on cap" style you said you wanted, but I bring it up because it offers hope that other Pilot offerings will be sized closer to what you are looking for.

[Sailor Kenshin]

I love Sailor pens, but the Zoom nib is a paintbrush, and your signature might be illegible.

 

If the threaded cap isn't absolutely mandatory, consider a Jinhao x450 or..is it...159? The latter being a baseball bat, and both pens having thick, wet nibs, and you won't even pay $10 for either. Come in a variety of finishes, and so inexpensive you can consider them rentals.

 

I have no experience with the 3776 C-nib, but the Platinum I have is very light in weight, and its M nib probably too fine for your needs.

 

Good luck in your search!

Edited February 27, 2017 by Sailor Kenshin

[bigkahuna]

I think the #3776 will be a good choice for you. Certainly the slip & seal cap and the weight will work for you. The Platinum is rather wet, and I think they already have their own line of Iron Gall Ink - so you may even be able to get cartridges already inked.

 

 

Platinum's blue black ink is iron gall - it comes in bottles, or in boxes of ten.

 

sandy101,

Thanks for that! Bonus points for the Platinum... and ready-made IG cartridges sound terrific!

[bigkahuna]

In IG inks were standard of Blue Black inks, any piston pen would do as well. As long as you clean the pen every three months like the instructions use to say.....if you like every month.

You don't have to clean all the time, because you are re-filling the piston pen often and that is cleansing.

 

I mostly buy old pens that sat in the dark of a drawer for a generation or two...It will still clean out after 20-50 years in the pen.

 

Only red and purple cause trouble with piston windows not R&K IG inks....or I'd worry and fret.

 

I have a Vintage BBB oblique signature pen that is too wide....so modern B or vintage BB (=B1/2 mostly) would do. I find BBB maxi-semi-flex oblique too wide, needing at least 2/3's of a sheet of paper for a legal three word name.

 

'50-65 German pens like MB, Pelikan, Geha or Osmia/O-F-C have stubbish, semi-flex nibs that give flair to your writing. If you get an oblique of that era even more flair. They will be 1/2 a width narrower than the modern fat and blobby nibs.

Right now I have a '54 Pelikan B semi-flex nib on my modern 605 Pelikan and that nib is .

 

I do not advise the modern fat and blobby semi-nail 400/600 nibs.

 

and there are so many very, very pretty 600's....and go to Penboard. de for a '50-65 semi-flex 14K B nib....or BB if you want something B 1/2 in modern. That will be a good nib....if oblique OB even better......that would be like a modern Fat M in today's nibs....but with flair and line variation 'on demand'.

Stubb and CI is always max 100%.

Bo Bo Olson,

 

Thanks for sharing your experience. Sounds like I will not need such an aggressive maintenance regimen with current IG inks, and that my fear of using IG in a piston filler may be unwarranted. I saw a few pictures here on FPN of stained/scratched barrels (IIRC TWSBI Eco?) associated with IG ink use and thought it would be safer to go with cartridges.

 

Also, it sounds like the ink colors I was planning on using (blue, black, blue-black) are among the safer choices.

 

I had not considered getting a vintage pen for this use case, since my work environment can be "exciting" and I'd hate to break something important without available replacement parts in the active supply chain. I should mention that I consider myself a "user" rather than a "collector"... and the oldest FPs I own are from still in production (mid-90s Cross Townsends). That said, I seem to be accumulating more pens than I can use at any given time. I may need to reconsider my stance on vintage pens and this whole "collecting" thing.

 

Thanks also for the guidance on nib width and flex nibs. I have a western broad nib, and have tried a modern western BB as well... anything in that range of line width should be great for my use. I have not tried a 3B but it sounds like it would be too wide of a line. Moreover, I'm only half a step away from being a "ballpoint barbarian" and have no idea how to properly use a flex or semi-flex nib. To the best of my limited knowledge, all my nibs are nails; even my "soft" nibs are only slightly springy. I have relied on cursive italic and stub nibs thus far for line variation.

 

You've given me lots to think about. I'm starting to realize how much I have yet to learn about this stuff. Thanks again!

[bigkahuna]

I'm sure you may already know this, but Japanese nibs aren't as wide as "western" ones. So if you want a western broad, you should certainly try to see the pens on your list in person or buy from a reputable source that allows returns. You may find a Japanese broad to be closer to a western medium...although, my Pilot Decimo (and Vanishing Point uses the same nib system) is a medium and is a true western medium in my opinion. That isn't the "screw on cap" style you said you wanted, but I bring it up because it offers hope that other Pilot offerings will be sized closer to what you are looking for.

sirgilbert357,

Thanks for that. I looked online for writing samples and found some of the "broad" nib Platinum 3776. Line looks a little too thin for my liking. Writing samples of Pilot nibs seem to validate your comments: Pilot Broad seems very close to Western standards, and BB/C are nice and thick. I appreciate your inputs!

[bigkahuna]

I love Sailor pens, but the Zoom nib is a paintbrush, and your signature might be illegible.

 

If the threaded cap isn't absolutely mandatory, consider a Jinhao x450 or..is it...149? The latter being a baseball bat, and both oens having thick, wet nibs, and you won't even pay $10 for either. Come in a variety of finishes, and so inexpensive you can consider them rentals.

 

I have no experience with the 3776 C-nib, but the Platinum I have is very light in weight, and its M nib probably too fine for your needs.

 

Good luck in your search!

Sailor Kenshin,

 

Good to know about the Zoom nib.

 

I'll check out the Jinhao X450 and 159 (couldn't find a Jinhao 149, all references pointed to the 159 as being the "homage" to the MB 149).

I'm awaiting already delivery of a few Chinese pens and will test them out with R&K Salix. If any of them have sufficient line width and enough wetness/inkflow, they may be contenders. These are the pens I'm waiting for, all "medium" nibs unless otherwise indicated: Kaigelu 316, Picasso 915, Wing Sung 590 (0.7mm nib per fleabay listing), Jinhao 886. Do you have any knowledge of these pens in terms of wetness or line width?

 

Agree with your assessment of the Platinum 3776 "m" nib... the writing samples I found online look too thin in line width for my preference.

 

Thanks for the input!

[Sailor Kenshin]

Sailor Kenshin,

 

Good to know about the Zoom nib.

 

I'll check out the Jinhao X450 and 159 (couldn't find a Jinhao 149, all references pointed to the 159 as being the "homage" to the MB 149).

I'm awaiting already delivery of a few Chinese pens and will test them out with R&K Salix. If any of them have sufficient line width and enough wetness/inkflow, they may be contenders. These are the pens I'm waiting for, all "medium" nibs unless otherwise indicated: Kaigelu 316, Picasso 915, Wing Sung 590 (0.7mm nib per fleabay listing), Jinhao 886. Do you have any knowledge of these pens in terms of wetness or line width?

 

Agree with your assessment of the Platinum 3776 "m" nib... the writing samples I found online look too thin in line width for my preference.

 

Thanks for the input!

Yup, I meant the 159! Sorry, I don't have any of those other Chinese pens, but the Jinhao 450, 750, and even the 159 I had were all broad, wet, and juicy.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Bigkahuna, there is a huge difference between semi-flex....and superflex....flex is so vague a nail user may think a semi-nail is 'flex'.

 

Look to a Pelikan 200 with it's springy 'true' regular flex. That flex rate use to be the normal issue of many companies until too many Barbarians bent too many nibs; then they went to nail and semi-nail.

 

Nib Com has 200 nibs in BB. For $67 for steel, for gold plate but only in B for $53....which are lots more than what I'd pay (and I expected gold plated to be more than the steel....could be there is some difference between the 215 and the 200's nibs....that I'd not heard about.)....but one can shop around and if you can't get a 200 with exactly the wide BB then can send it to Pelikan for a wider nib....perhaps. I've heard they are doing away with wider nibs.

 

Once I was a semi-flex snob , but have come to like the old fashioned regular flex nibs a lot. They are a tad dryer than semi-flex so are better for shading in M&F. I don't know how BB would be in shading with regular flex....could be a bit wetter.

 

The think with most of the Pelikans is one can get other nibs that just screw in and out.

[Sandy1]

Hi,

 

In addition to the excellent Posts above, I offer a few nuances:

 

Fellow Member FloatingFountain and I had a good natter about I-G inks. @ Post 17 onward https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/266828-diamine-registrars-ink-and-other-modern-iron-galls/?p=2997172

 

At first glance your criteria -4- seems a good idea, but comments from other Members that taking a pen to bits is not necessary for other than restoration / overhaul - not routine maintenance.

e.g. I thought the TWSBI pens would suit I-G and other 'vigilance required' inks, but the amount of slop in manufacture lets ink migrate out of reach of routine flushing.

> I've used a MB149 for years, during which it was dedicated to their [discontinued] I-G inks with nary a problem; and am currently using the humble Pilot Plumix as a testbed for extended use of ESSRI without maintenance; it continues to run very well.

 

A good cap seal is essential, so of the pens you've mentioned, the Sailor would be my pick. Kindly consider the two-tine Music (MS) nib rather than the Fude. https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/196809-sailor-musc-nib/?p=1994954

 

As a matter of personal preference and practicality, I do not carry a pen in the packet of my blouse. Not only does it adversely affect the hang of the garment, but if wearing PPE / harness the pen is not readily accessible. [And at that latitude I am rather ticklish.] As such, in the field I tote my pen in a flashlight holster on my waist belt or in a sleeve slot.

(My field pens are the rotring 600 [i-G ink] and the Pelikan P99 Technixx [Pelikan BlBk] which has a spring-loaded clip. https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/157990-pelikan-p99-technixx/?p=1574240 )

 

Wheee!

 

Bye,

S1

Edited February 27, 2017 by Sandy1

[Sailor Kenshin]

The Sailor Music nib's a paintbrush, too. But their B nib might not be 'B' enough.

[Sandy1]

The Sailor Music nib's a paintbrush, too. But their B nib might not be 'B' enough.

 

 

Hi,

 

+1

 

But its a nice nice nice paintbrush!

 

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Ink%20Review%20-%20Sailor%20Jentle%20Sky%20High/66780254.jpg

 

I wonder if an Oblique nib could be added to the mix???

 

And is it time to invite Ghost Plane to the party?

 

Bye,

S1

Edited February 27, 2017 by Sandy1

[bigkahuna]

Bigkahuna, there is a huge difference between semi-flex....and superflex....flex is so vague a nail user may think a semi-nail is 'flex'.

 

Look to a Pelikan 200 with it's springy 'true' regular flex. That flex rate use to be the normal issue of many companies until too many Barbarians bent too many nibs; then they went to nail and semi-nail.

 

Nib Com has 200 nibs in BB. For $67 for steel, for gold plate but only in B for $53....which are lots more than what I'd pay (and I expected gold plated to be more than the steel....could be there is some difference between the 215 and the 200's nibs....that I'd not heard about.)....but one can shop around and if you can't get a 200 with exactly the wide BB then can send it to Pelikan for a wider nib....perhaps. I've heard they are doing away with wider nibs.

 

Once I was a semi-flex snob , but have come to like the old fashioned regular flex nibs a lot. They are a tad dryer than semi-flex so are better for shading in M&F. I don't know how BB would be in shading with regular flex....could be a bit wetter.

 

The think with most of the Pelikans is one can get other nibs that just screw in and out.

Bo Bo Olsen,

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll browse online for Pelikan M200s. A cursory search of fleabay shows several M200s, including some from the 80s as well as some of more recent manufacture. Is there any particular timeframe of manufacture that I should be looking for?

[bigkahuna]

Hi,

 

In addition to the excellent Posts above, I offer a few nuances:

 

Fellow Member FloatingFountain and I had a good natter about I-G inks. @ Post 17 onward https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/266828-diamine-registrars-ink-and-other-modern-iron-galls/?p=2997172

 

At first glance your criteria -4- seems a good idea, but comments from other Members that taking a pen to bits is not necessary for other than restoration / overhaul - not routine maintenance.

e.g. I thought the TWSBI pens would suit I-G and other 'vigilance required' inks, but the amount of slop in manufacture lets ink migrate out of reach of routine flushing.

> I've used a MB149 for years, during which it was dedicated to their [discontinued] I-G inks with nary a problem; and am currently using the humble Pilot Plumix as a testbed for extended use of ESSRI without maintenance; it continues to run very well.

 

A good cap seal is essential, so of the pens you've mentioned, the Sailor would be my pick. Kindly consider the two-tine Music (MS) nib rather than the Fude. https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/196809-sailor-musc-nib/?p=1994954

 

As a matter of personal preference and practicality, I do not carry a pen in the packet of my blouse. Not only does it adversely affect the hang of the garment, but if wearing PPE / harness the pen is not readily accessible. [And at that latitude I am rather ticklish.] As such, in the field I tote my pen in a flashlight holster on my waist belt or in a sleeve slot.

(My field pens are the rotring 600 [i-G ink] and the Pelikan P99 Technixx [Pelikan BlBk] which has a spring-loaded clip. https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/157990-pelikan-p99-technixx/?p=1574240 )

 

Wheee!

 

Bye,

S1

 

Hi Sandy1,

 

Wow. Thank you for the information, and I truly appreciate your in-depth consideration and the specificity of your responses. I have read the thread on I-G inks that you linked. It sound like both Koh-i-Noor Rapido-Eze and acetic acid would be good investments. I will also be sure to continue maintaining strict ink hygiene discipline.

 

I also appreciate your feedback on criteria 4 (ease of detail stripping the pen for maintenance). It's nice to see requirements ease instead of creep. Wish that happened more often.

 

I'll look at the P99, Rotring 600 and Music Nib per your suggestion as well. Is the music nib fairly tolerant of variance in inclination and roll angles? How is the risk of "catching paper" if I am sloppy with my angle control?

 

Interesting thoughts on on-body carry methods (placket vs sleeve-slot vs belt-holster). The pen holster sounds like a good option for field sites. I have several shirts with sleeve slots also, but I rarely use them... nothing screams TACTICAL louder than sleeve slots, mic loops, or molle-looped man purses. The vast majority of the time I try to look decidedly non-tactical.

 

Thanks again for your insightful reply.

[Bo Bo Olson]

'80-90...W.Germany could be a tad springier than normal later Germany....'90-to now. (only the 200's nib) They ruined the 400/600's nibs....from my view point. Which is good, I don't have to chase expensive new pens, because I bought old used ones.....vintage.

I lucked into one W. Germany but don't buy it in Oblique.

 

 

There are so very many different 200's....take some time and look in some of the Pelikan coms....that hopefully someone will give you. There must be 35-40 of them in different colors.

If not it so appears...regular models, year pens.......or some blogs to get a good idea...We have a sales section...fair price working pen...folks want to keep their good name. Not as cheap as Ebay, but no one fiddled with the nib.

If I'm not mistaken Sargtalon has a Blog that shows many of his pens. Often found in Pelikan section.

 

For Oblique to really work it has to be semi or maxi-semi-flex from the 50-65 era. Those nibs would be gold.....the 140 or 400s....could be for you in a couple of years.

My W.Germany 200 OM isn't enough spring to the nib for oblique...no regular flex nib has.

It seems to be the better nib by a tad....that 'famous' tad of difference between W.Germany and Germany nibs.

 

It is a very good nib, but it is not semi-flex.

 

I suggest with the 200's is pick one that looks good to you. There are ever so many. Sargetalon has one of the worlds best collections. See if he has a blog in his signature.

 

I have two 140's, a Ibis, 4-5 50's 400's, in semi-flex, so was slow getting the 200s.

'90's M-400 and two Celebry and a 381. Their nibs = the 200's. Steel=Gold.

 

I have a W. Germany 200, an Amethyst...the year before last's pen of the year and a 215 which are no longer made, but are slightly heavier because of a brass barrel.

 

I was once a semi-flex snob... I grew to really like the 200's nib. My 215 was bought because it was a 200 nib...but "I didn't need a 200", in I had a slew of Pelikans......well I now have three and still like the 'true' regular flex nib...a springy good ride.

[bigkahuna]

OK... Looks like the candidate field has changed a bit. Adding Pelikans to the list of possibles, joining Sailor and Platinum. Pilots go to the back burner for now since I already have several of them. Also not ruling out the possibility of acquiring several of these for ongoing testing in actual use... This could get a little pricier than originally envisioned...

Edited February 28, 2017 by bigkahuna

[aeba]

It makes me sad that some people on a niche forum like this resort to name calling on daily basis to lobby their own preferences.

 

It is going to be your pen, not mine (I lobby for nails and springy nibs), not Bo Bo's, not anyone else's. Yours. If you want a nail or Pelikan 400NN with a manifold nib, you're golden no matter what someone else says. If you want a flex nib, then you're golden too. But if you didn't want a flex nib, but buy one anyway because someone lobbied one to you by flex making everything better, heavenly glory, and rosy pink, you might either only waste your money on something you didn't want, and / or ruin a nib.

 

Get a dip pen and see yourself if flex does anything to you. You'll even gain right to name call fountain pen users lazy barbarians. Win-win.