Learning The Subtleties Of Pens, Inks, And Paper

[LizEF]

I'm sure those with lots of experience realized these things long ago, but I thought it would be interesting to explore.

 

When I re-started my pen hobby just over a year ago, I was so caught up in all the fun, the variety, and shiny toys, and how much better they were than regular pens, that I didn't notice the subtleties. But over time, as the initial excitement has calmed down, I find myself noticing more...

 

I recently purchased my grail pen - a Visconti Homo Sapiens London Fog (EF). Initially, I wasn't sure the Dreamtouch nib was all it was hyped to be, until, in the middle of my testing, something happened (I wasn't sure what), and it suddenly was a dream. Of course, I proceeded to play with it and have determined that I enjoy the feel best when printing (rather than cursing, er, uh, writing cursive) and when there's only one (maybe two) sheets of paper on a hard writing surface - preferably wood. Other pens I have feel best when writing on a pad of paper (or several sheets).

 

I've been paying more attention since then, and find it intriguing how some pens don't seem to care how you hold them (most of my pens), while others really prefer a particular angle. Some (the softer nibs) actually feel better when writing on a hard surface (I suppose because that really lets you feel the springiness), while others feel best with a softer surface underneath.

 

Then there are the joys of inks - some have very subtle shading and color, others just gush boldly with promises of sheen any next minute, while still others promise to dry quick so you can get on with things. With some, it's easy to see the pool of ink following the nib along, and watch as the line dries, others not so much.

 

And, of course, papers - they also have their subtle feels and sounds, and bring out different ink or nib features.

 

In short, I imagine it's like learning to distinguish smells and tastes of specific ingredients in food.

 

So, I thought maybe we might share the subtler pleasures of FP writing, and perhaps some of the newbies will learn what to watch for as the initial excitement fades, and day-to-day pleasures take over.

[Bo Bo Olson]

The difference between types of paper; not only to write on, but if it's heavy enough..90g mostly to shade with. 100/50% cotton feel nice, but in I'm OCD about feathering and woolly lines...having a Honking Big magnifying glass to check for that...100/50% cotton feather too much.

Diamine ink does too.

Wet inks, medium, dry....matching to nib...dry, medium & wet to the paper in question.

 

Normally, I adjust the ink to the pen, if it's a tad wet or dry, instead of fiddling with the nib's width, so I can have use of more inks.

I lucked out and got four of the basic papers, laid, linen, hammered and marbled all at once so had a 'start' on papers, even though I had bond papers and cotton ones. Some very nice folks sent me various papers.

Even though once I had 49 papers (many small samples sent to me), I still feel so 'noobie' with papers.....I am missing so many.

 

Sandy1's American papers every one in America and Canada should get.

Me too, even if shipping gold bars are cheaper than the US Mail.

[Chrissy]

Diamine inks don't feather on any of the papers I use. Even under high loupe magnification.

 

I prefer to write on smooth papers, rather than some writing papers that have 'tooth'. Tomoe River and most 100gsm printer papers are smooth. I'm not sure if toothy papers are cotton or linen based.

[Buzz_130]

You are discovering the fountain pen adage that writing is made up of four things: pen, paper, ink, and writer. When all of the factors line up, the writing experience can't be beat.

 

Buzz

[Bo Bo Olson]

In I chase to 97 1/2% vintage pens, they have very, very good to great balance posted. They are on the whole standard and medium large pen and back then a Large pens, were rare. PFM I never saw except in ads.

I was very shocked to find out the thin Snorkel is a Large pen...it has great balance. The P-45 has better balance for a Large pen than I expected....in it wasn't until I measured did I find out it was a large pen, not a medium large pen like a P-51.

They had to have great balance, otherwise they'd lose to the competition.

 

 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Diamine inks.

Somewhere I have a sample of Tomoe River that I've not used yet.

 

My fountain pen papers are 90g or better. When I was in the states last....some years ago, I picked up 5 packs of Southworth paper from 24 pounds to 32....90g-120.

 

I have the 'famous' Aldi paper/the basic four papers, laid, linen, Hammered and Marbles.....90-120g.

Good papers, unfortunately only carried for two school starts. ...or I'd have enough to send good sized samples around.

I've had Zander's 80g Bond paper for decades. A good paper. Always has been...the '70's paper is a tad better than the modern.

I have Opti 100g right now,

I use normal (bond is different) 80g only for printer....that and 90g in I prefer to edit with 90g over 80g.

 

 

Just saw you are from GB, so Southworth is not your papers. Well I've had Conquer samples but don't remember if used Diamine on it to check the ink. My spiral note books are Clairefontaine Veloute 90g and Oxford Optic 90g, the Veloute is the slightest tad better than Optic. It took a number of inks to find one that Veloute did better than Optic.

Diamine and Akkermann feather on them....also. IMO while Diamine makes Akkermann, they are not exactly the same. IMO Akkermann feathers a bit less than regular Diamine.

I've had three or four Diamine inks...don't remember which....they were outside of two bottle (3?...if so was not a good impression) were assorted cartridges.

 

I bought some 9 sample sheets of Gmund paper....finding the almost perfect paper....slight woolly line under magnification....."Blanc Beige' 170g, I liked the feel heavy paper a bit more than the perfect paper 120g of the same. I will get a 100 sheets for E36+4 mailing in the fall.

On the Perfect paper even Diamine Green Meadows a real heavy feathering ink, behaves it self.......on the most perfect paper I ever had.

 

Green Meadows is a feather champ.....I couldn't give that to anybody. The only reason I still have it is I am lazy. The bottle is not worth saving.....I couldn't find it right now...or it would have been trashed. Some time one needs a lousy ink for paper testing....Green Meadows is such.

 

Do stay away from Brunner papers except the M&K ones. They are outside M&K are ball point papers in they feather even the 120g ones that I thought would do.

 

When giving a neighbor a couple of Lamies, and some good paper to start using fountain pens. I gave her a a bottle of some sort of blue Diamine ink....that failed the see the feathering while sitting test, so I don't remember it's exact name. (Sapphire blue) I have a couple cartridges of Diamine left (used before I understood feathering and woolly lines)...that I'll never use.

Well might now that I have next to perfect paper.

 

I have some 15 or so samples of Akkermann, that I will use.....now that I got a near perfect paper and will be getting other E36 for 100 sheet perfect paper.

They nor Diamine didn't work well on Clairefountaine veloute or Oxford Optic 90g.

 

So tell me what papers you are using, so I can get some. I have to hurry before I have to pay import duties.

 

Just took a look in my paper folder for papers I need to order...... when retired it's easier to plan than to spend. Conqueror was on the list.

Edited February 25, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[LizEF]

You are discovering the fountain pen adage that writing is made up of four things: pen, paper, ink, and writer. When all of the factors line up, the writing experience can't be beat.

 

Buzz

 

Actually, I think I discovered that the first time I put my first TWSBI to a Rhodia dot pad. Now I'm discovering the nuances of that - the tweaking Bo Bo mentioned. Hmm, perhaps an example...

 

For months after I started using FPs, I would still use ballpoints at work (various regulatory requirements), though usually rollerballs. But over the months, I got more and more accustomed to FPs. One day, I picked up a ballpoint at work, and it wouldn't write. I realized I wasn't applying enough pressure, gripped it tighter and pressed harder, and thought, "Ugh! How can anyone stand this?"

 

In short, my default had changed. My ability to perceive the differences increased. I guess, I think if one pays attention as this happens, one can hone their perception and enjoy all the little differences more...

[Chrissy]

@ Bo Bo Olsen: I have about 100 Diamine inks. I use Tomoe River, Clairfontaine Triomphe, and other Clairfontaine papers, Elco James Velin, Silvine, Apica, Rhodia Dot Pad, plus other different Rhodia papers, Maruman Mnemosyne, Conquerer, Xerox 100gsm and many others that I don't even know the names of. I have tried many Diamine inks on many different papers using many different modern pens with different sized tips. In my own experience Diamine inks don't feather any more than other brands do. So that widespread generalisation seems unfair to Diamine.

 

I would never generalise that 'any specific brand of inks feather.' Maybe there are some that do and some that don't. Diamine makes 100's of inks, and I know for a fact that they don't all feather, just like I know that all Noodler's inks don't stain demonstrator barrels. It's like saying all German Shepherd dogs attack children. It's just the kind of wide generalisation that people sometimes make whether it's true or not.

[Mrpink]

Thanks for sharing OP. Unfortunately I have got rid of some cool pens because of my inexperience. Using bad paper, applying wrong pressure or angles, wrong nib sizes and maybe the nib needed a touch or two- the whole time blaming pens. Like yourself its come together and its great how there is still much to learn. 5 minutes of writing becomes half hour past bed time.

[LizEF]

Thanks for sharing OP. Unfortunately I have got rid of some cool pens because of my inexperience. Using bad paper, applying wrong pressure or angles, wrong nib sizes and maybe the nib needed a touch or two- the whole time blaming pens. Like yourself its come together and its great how there is still much to learn. 5 minutes of writing becomes half hour past bed time.

 

You're welcome, Mrpink. I was hoping it might help someone. Sorry you had to lose some pens along your journey.

 

The Visconti was what really opened my eyes - it's a lot of money to waste, and I was seriously worried that was what I'd done - until I tripped over its "dreamtouch" and then I realized it was me - I needed to learn how to work its magic. That and my "ballpoint" experience at work have helped me to recognize that this is like developing any skill or interest - it takes time to learn the nuances or finer details.

 

I'm still in awe of some people's ink experiences - e.g. Sandy1's reviews, and amberleadavis' feel for the mood / use / pen / nib that's best for an ink. Maybe in time I'll get close. In the meantime, every now and then I'll miss bedtime because I'm mesmerized by yet another Robert Oster blue.

[Randal6393]

I write a bit nightly. Have to force myself to get to bed before midnight. And I never eat after midnight.

 

My immediate practice is an attempt to write smaller -- currently at 2 mm with both italic and copperplate. Striving to go smaller, it's a definite struggle. But my letters are getting a lot better at all sizes as a result of the discipline.

 

Enjoy,

[Bo Bo Olson]

"Diamine inks don't feather any more than other brands do." That could be true in you have a hundred of them.....Could well be Diamine makes inks that don't feather/woolly line....Akkermann does; made by Diamine but feathers a bit less.

 

First, I consider a woolly line, minor feathering. But I never had to worry about a woolly line with the few Diamine inks I tried. They feathered too much.

 

All the Diamine inks I tried feathered....the ones in the cartridges and the three bottles....thankfully small. Why should I waste money on ink that feathers....throw away money searching for Diamine inks that do not feather more than other brands.....listed below.

 

How many did you say you had of other brands?

 

I only have @60 inks. Noodlers only two, Apache Sunset and Golden Brown.

 

MB, Pelikan 4001(outside certain Edelstein inks...and I bash Aventurine for feathering just as fast as Diamine.), Herbin are inks I consider don't feather. R&K, old C d'A inks, also. I don't expect DA shading inks to feather.....Royal Blue either. I'd have to look harder at DA Mississippi Mud....but didn't in it didn't shade, was just a saturated boring mono-tone brown....it didn't feather in sitting and was too boring to take it to my eyes.

The old Waterman inks were not feathering inks...though I only had three of them.

I would not have bought more bottles of those inks, had they been feathering inks on good to better papers.

 

You have a wonderful collection of papers.

I once had 49 different papers....many samples sent to me by nice posters. I did a 17 pen, 49 paper test of ESSR....which by many is a better register ink than Diamine.

 

Why should I waste money buying Diamine inks when all the ones I had feathered and like Green Meadow....feathered more than any ink I ever had. Sure it was only the three bottles and cartridges. Yep, gave a bottle small 30ml of what ever it was*, to my baker's school kid, in they still use fountain pens in German schools if the student wishes. Gave that bottle of Sapphire to a noobie I gave two Lamies &cartridges too to get her started...so somewhere hidden in Cobweb Corner is Green Meadow.

The name was not worth remembering. It was like the other Diamines...a feather ink. Sure a three bottle and 3-4 cartridge sample is little....but when they all feather....including the Diamine made Akkermann, why should I buy all the bottles of a to me poor ink in hopes of something better.

 

In the years I've been bashing Diamine ink...you are the first to say there are Diamine inks that don't feather.

No one else. All others accepted Diamine feathering/woolly line.

 

In search for perfect shading, I want a clear crisp line.

 

Magnifying glass...3"x4"x1" or 7 x 10cm x 2.8cm thick = Thick Honking Big. No, I do not use my 10X loupe that would be a bit too much AR.

 

Feathering can also be a woolly line.....the way I look at things. A woolly line is better than feathering....by some distance. Still it irritates me. Indicates to me too little sizing on the paper or an ink made too wet.

 

My feathering scale.

BEF----Bare Eyed Feathering....seen while setting. Decide if paper or ink....do not buy which is at fault again.

 

NEF-----Near Eye Feathering....seen when taken close to the eye. Not worth buying again, again find out if it's the ink or paper or both.

 

MagF---- seen under Magnification, light feathering or woolly line....if only a woolly line, buy this ink and or paper again.

My near perfect expensive (E36+4) for 100 sheets) 170g Gmund paper shows a non-feathering Diamine Green Meadow! Certain inks have a slight woolly line, which is why the paper is only near perfect.

 

NoMagF------no feathering or woolly line seen under magnification. I have some a sample sheet of the same Gmund 'Blanc Beige" as the 170g, that is perfect and to my surprise at 120g....all inks are perfect on it....including Diamine Green Meadow. Stockpile this paper, buy on the black market, smuggle it in.

 

I had 9 sample sheets of Gmund fountain pen friendly papers....one was almost perfect, the other perfect, the rest didn't make the final cut. I can tell by how many inks were written on each sample to how good it was. The lesser papers getting less inking.

At the $$$ of the paper I was a much more OCD than normal....then dithered for three years because of the cost.

It was 'only' 36 cents a page. I'd paid more for single sheet papers that feathered major like Rossler 100% cotton 100g. As mentioned 100/50% cotton feather a lot.

But it was a jump like when one first crosses the $50 border with buying a used vintage pen.

 

 

Well I did learn from the Pen of the Week in the Mail Club.

Perhaps I'll join the Paper of the Month in the Mail Club....after I go to my B&M and buy some E18 or so per half ream Zander papers.

I have to start doing to my Zander sample books, what I did to my Gmund papers. No reason to buy with out testing to destruction before.

Edited February 25, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[LizEF]

I write a bit nightly. Have to force myself to get to bed before midnight. And I never eat after midnight.

 

My immediate practice is an attempt to write smaller -- currently at 2 mm with both italic and copperplate. Striving to go smaller, it's a definite struggle. But my letters are getting a lot better at all sizes as a result of the discipline.

 

Enjoy,

 

But midnight is when the day begins - hour 0. If you never eat after midnight, you'll starve! Don't do that!

 

You bring up another good point - discipline is needed to make improvements, and trying something different can also hone one's ability to recognize and perceive the finer points of their hobby. I would have to do the opposite of you - get a big fat broad nib and try to write large. For me, staying in the 2mm lines on Clairefontaine French rule paper is easy - though extending characters up to the third line and down to the second line below (as I'm supposed to) actually feels like I'm writing huge for some letters.

[CrispyBacon_87]

My learning experience came from reading key terms like bleed through, feathering, feedback, etc... They were just concepts. As I started to collect different pens and inks, I started to actually understand.

 

The more variety of materials, the more you know what you like or don't like. Buy different pens, different papers and inks! Sample everything! It's a buffet, not a 1 course meal.

[LizEF]

My learning experience came from reading key terms like bleed through, feathering, feedback, etc... They were just concepts. As I started to collect different pens and inks, I started to actually understand.

 

The more variety of materials, the more you know what you like or don't like. Buy different pens, different papers and inks! Sample everything! It's a buffet, not a 1 course meal.

 

Good post. (PS: Now I want bacon. That's not an unusual desire, however...)

[DannyB]

Thank you Miss Elizabeth!

 

After reading this, the light bulb came on!

 

I ripped a page from the Rhodia notebook, clipped it on my aluminum clip board and I no longer threaten to throw the Pilot FPs at my bristle dartboard!!

 

My new Custom 74 SFM is actually breaking in! I have a lot learn, in order to unlearn ball points. Who says you cant teach an old dog new tricks?!!!

[LizEF]

Thank you Miss Elizabeth!

 

After reading this, the light bulb came on!

 

You're welcome!

 

Your post makes me realize (in new ways) that what combination of pen + ink + paper + writing surface works best will, of course, vary from person to person - so we all have to learn it for ourselves (we can't just take someone else's combo and pronounce it perfect for everyone).

 

Glad to hear your Custom 74 is up to the task of training you out of ballpoints.

[Randal6393]

 

...

 

You bring up another good point - discipline is needed to make improvements, and trying something different can also hone one's ability to recognize and perceive the finer points of their hobby. I would have to do the opposite of you - get a big fat broad nib and try to write large. For me, staying in the 2mm lines on Clairefontaine French rule paper is easy - though extending characters up to the third line and down to the second line below (as I'm supposed to) actually feels like I'm writing huge for some letters.

I love Clairfontaine papers in general and the French Rule is really nice. Instead of a big fat broad nib, might try a 1.5 mm italic nib and work on one of the broad-edge hands -- uncial, half-uncial, Carlovingian, italic, etc. I think you would find it fun.

 

Yes, ascenders and descenders -- I have a problem with them, myself. They don't always look good at the standard height. Usually, I lengthen my ascenders a bit and shorten the descenders. They just look better to me. And that is the start of a personal hand, one that expresses the idiosyncracies of one's personality.

 

Best of luck,

[mhguda]

Thanks for your post, LizEF - the light bulb for DannyB prompted me to try a harder surface under my current paper, and while it's not really hard - just a piece of stiff cardboard - it was a pleasant surprise. I think I'll keep it for a while. Since the paper is onionskin, it also helps in reducing the see-through from the front part when I write on the back of the page. An additional benefit is it helps me mark my place without a bookmark...

[torstar]

I'm sure those with lots of experience realized these things long ago, but I thought it would be interesting to explore.

 

When I re-started my pen hobby just over a year ago, I was so caught up in all the fun, the variety, and shiny toys, and how much better they were than regular pens, that I didn't notice the subtleties. But over time, as the initial excitement has calmed down, I find myself noticing more...

 

I recently purchased my grail pen - a Visconti Homo Sapiens London Fog (EF). Initially, I wasn't sure the Dreamtouch nib was all it was hyped to be, until, in the middle of my testing, something happened (I wasn't sure what), and it suddenly was a dream. Of course, I proceeded to play with it and have determined that I enjoy the feel best when printing (rather than cursing, er, uh, writing cursive) and when there's only one (maybe two) sheets of paper on a hard writing surface - preferably wood. Other pens I have feel best when writing on a pad of paper (or several sheets).

 

I've been paying more attention since then, and find it intriguing how some pens don't seem to care how you hold them (most of my pens), while others really prefer a particular angle. Some (the softer nibs) actually feel better when writing on a hard surface (I suppose because that really lets you feel the springiness), while others feel best with a softer surface underneath.

 

Then there are the joys of inks - some have very subtle shading and color, others just gush boldly with promises of sheen any next minute, while still others promise to dry quick so you can get on with things. With some, it's easy to see the pool of ink following the nib along, and watch as the line dries, others not so much.

 

And, of course, papers - they also have their subtle feels and sounds, and bring out different ink or nib features.

 

In short, I imagine it's like learning to distinguish smells and tastes of specific ingredients in food.

 

So, I thought maybe we might share the subtler pleasures of FP writing, and perhaps some of the newbies will learn what to watch for as the initial excitement fades, and day-to-day pleasures take over.

 

it's all trial and error, part of the fun.

 

The best thing for me (offhand) is that certain FPs open up the potential in Herbin inks for me, while others were duds.

[LizEF]

I love Clairfontaine papers in general and the French Rule is really nice. Instead of a big fat broad nib, might try a 1.5 mm italic nib and work on one of the broad-edge hands -- uncial, half-uncial, Carlovingian, italic, etc. I think you would find it fun.

 

Yes, ascenders and descenders -- I have a problem with them, myself. They don't always look good at the standard height. Usually, I lengthen my ascenders a bit and shorten the descenders. They just look better to me. And that is the start of a personal hand, one that expresses the idiosyncracies of one's personality.

 

Best of luck,

 

Good to know I'm not the only unique ascender / descender.

 

And I like your "broad-edge hands" idea - that would probably be both easier and nicer-looking than me trying to write with a broad nib - and I've already got a Lamy Al-Star - for $13, I could have a 1.5 stub. Thank you! (That was a subtle bit of enabling there. )

 

Thanks for your post, LizEF - the light bulb for DannyB prompted me to try a harder surface under my current paper, and while it's not really hard - just a piece of stiff cardboard - it was a pleasant surprise. I think I'll keep it for a while. Since the paper is onionskin, it also helps in reducing the see-through from the front part when I write on the back of the page. An additional benefit is it helps me mark my place without a bookmark...

 

You're welcome! I consider this thread a success. Is this stiff cardboard like on the back of a legal pad, or something similar? (Seems like corrugated cardboard, like from a shipping box, wouldn't work - the ridges would get in the way.)

 

I don't get the bit about marking your place without a bookmark. Ooooh - you're inserting the cardboard into a pad / book, so the cardboard is your bookmark? (I was envisioning loose sheets.) Interesting.

 

it's all trial and error, part of the fun.

 

Exactly! And as we share our learning, we get more ideas to try - like the cardboard - I wouldn't have thought to try that. (Glad you're finding nibs to let you enjoy the J. Herbin inks.)