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Looking For Information On Mt 6142


OMASsimo

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I have a lovely little 6142 in nice condition and while I just inked it a few minutes ago I was wondering what I could learn about it. I quick search didn't reveal much, unfortunately. It seems a 1930s pen (1935, 1938?) and probably entry level. I'm not familiar with MT's numbering scheme but from reading here I learned that 42 is the colour (mottled blue). I figure that 1 might stand for the nib size because it has a #1 14 k gold nib.

 

Does anyone know where to find more information on this pen or could enlighten me otherwise on this model? I'd love to know a little more about the history of the pens I'm writing with.

 

Peter

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Well you have pretty much covered all the information!

 

As you say these pens were made in the mid to late 1930s; Mabie Todd did not produced marbled patterns after the war (as far as I know - I have never seen a post-war marbled MT pen).

 

I have seen and had, two varieties of the 6142 - the basic one with thin gold plated cap band and a fancier one, usually unnumbered, with a wide cap band.

 

The colour I have never seen is 44 - burgundy and black marble. 41 (green marble, 42 blue marble and 45 grey marble) are not unusual. These materials were also used for the 62xx series (No 2 nib) and the 10xx series (No 4 nib).

 

Best wishes

 

Cob

 

As for entry level; well there were more basic Swans - often unnumbered - in black Celluloid resembling the 6160 and 6260 but with chrome trim instead of gold.

Edited by Cob

fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


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Thank you very much for the additional information. The one I have is the variety with the thin gold plated ring on the cap. I will make pictures and post them here as soon as I get around.

 

You mention that the 6160 and 6260 were made of black celluloid. I wonder whether the 6142 is made of celluloid or not. The cap is fairly translucent but I can't notice any of that distinctive camphor smell of real celluloid. Do you happen to know? In any case, it's a nice little pen and I very much like the mottled blue.

 

Peter

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Yes the material is Celluloid or something very similar, though I seem to recall that MT called it Xylonite or some such name. It certainly dissolves in acetone!

 

Is your pen stamped with 6142 on the bottom of the barrel, or was it one of the many that MT made when the stamping bloke was asleep?

 

Rgds

 

Cob

fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


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Thank you very much, Cob. Xylonite is an older brand name for celluloid, so that's what it is. Practically all plastics dissolve in acetone and it's a bad idea to try it. But a distinctive property of celluloid is that it dissolves in neat alcohol. I assume that's what you mean. I don't really want to try this either, though. I much rather trust your expertise and enjoy the pen. :)

 

Yes, the pen is stamped "6142" along the circumference at the end of the barrel. I shall go into my studio this afternoon and take some decent pictures of the pen.

 

Peter

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No! I did mean acetone which I use for repairs.

 

Looking forward to the pictures.

 

Cob

fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


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Well, acetone for welding plastics is great. I thought you mean for material analysis and for that alcohol would be first choice in case of celluloid.

 

OK, here are some pictures of the actual pen.

 

image.jpg

 

 

image.jpg

 

 

image.jpg

 

 

image.jpg

 

 

image.jpg

 

 

Peter

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A nice example; you are fortunate to have found a really tidy one. I suspect you are a materials expert; does your knowledge extend to a substance that will reliably glue Ebonite/Vulcanite/Black Hard Rubber?

 

I have the experience of numerous failed attempts!

 

Enjoy your pen and best wishes,

 

Cob

fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


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Yes, it's in remarkably good shape for a pen from the 1930s. There are only a few tiny dings on the cap and very slight brassing. When I bought the pen, it didn't write well at all and that might be the reason why it didn't suffer the usual abuse over the decades. It turned out that the slit between the tines was too narrow and after tuning the nib a bit it now writes like a charm. But I was surprised that the nib is rather stiff, no flex at all. That's not quite what I expected from a Swan nib from the 1930s.

 

To answer your question, no I'm not a materials specialist, though I did study chemistry as you might have guessed. But here is the little I know about hard rubber. The problem with all rubbers, hard rubber included, is that no normal glue sticks properly. The way to fuse rubber parts is to vulcanize them together. You certainly know how to patch a hole in the rubber tube of a bicycle tire, that's exactly the process. The liquid stuff (or rather the gel) you put on the rubber is a vulcanizer that triggers a reaction between the "rubber molecules" of the tube and the patch, linking them together. In principle, this might work also for hard rubber. But I've never tried it because I never needed to.

 

Peter

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I am very surprised at your description of the nib's characteristics; that is most unusual - I had to check that it was not stamped "Eternal"! It certianly looks like a flexible nib; strange indeed.

 

Thanks for the information about the rubber adhesives. Interesting indeed.

 

Rgds

 

Cob

fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


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Looks like bike shops carry small tubes of vulcanizing fluid.

 

I like to experiment. Will buy a tube, try it on some BHR scraps and report back eventually!

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OK. Got a tube of what claims to be Vulcanizing fluid. Tried it on some scrap black hard rubber.

It just acted like rubber cement.

 

The idea is chemically sound, but not effective.

 

Stick to Loctite 480. Many of us have used it successfully on hard rubber cracks.

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OK. Got a tube of what claims to be Vulcanizing fluid. Tried it on some scrap black hard rubber.

It just acted like rubber cement.

 

The idea is chemically sound, but not effective.

 

Stick to Loctite 480. Many of us have used it successfully on hard rubber cracks.

 

 

Thank you very much for testing this and reporting your results. I'm sorry that it didn't work with the vulcanizer for bicycle tubes. As I said, I never tried it myself and there are numerous different vulcanizing agents. Apparently, not all of them work with the old hard rubber used for pens.

 

I'm not familiar with the Loctite 480. Does it really bond permanently to the rubber? So far, I haven't seen any glue doing that but I'd be happy if that one would.

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I am very surprised at your description of the nib's characteristics; that is most unusual - I had to check that it was not stamped "Eternal"! It certianly looks like a flexible nib; strange indeed.

 

Thanks for the information about the rubber adhesives. Interesting indeed.

 

Rgds

 

Cob

 

Absolutely, I was very surprised myself. Please don't get me wrong, it's not like the modern "nails". It is a very pleasant writer now after I adjusted it properly. But the line variation that can be achieved by pressure is really very limited and certainly less than what I'd call a semi-flex.

 

Peter

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Loctite 480 is good for hard rubber crack repair. It is still weaker than needed, but is a good part of BHR crack repairs. Cosmetically it works well on black hard rubber pens.

For cap lip cracks below the cap threads, it works great, but posting the cap might break it.

I have used it for barrel thread cracks, and used a fine metal pick to repeatedly smooth it in the threads as it dries so there are no thick spots.

On one pen, some sanding of the section was all that was needed.

On another, I lined the inside with metal, but used the Loctite 480 to glue and fill the cracks.

 

I have used it for two slip type caps with lip cracks, but then lined the cap with metal to take the stress off when capping and posting.

 

I had a BHR cap with a deep gouge in it, and a cap with an ugly rough hole in top. The glue made a good filler that could be sanded down and polished.

 

Many professional restorers are quick to point out the limitations, and therefore dismiss it outright. But it really works great understanding that it is a weak spot

 

We are WAAYYYYY off the post, and off the forum topic with this one!

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I have Loctite 480 and sadly have fouind it to be useless with almost every material I have tried it on! And I am careful to keep it in the fridge!

 

There is another product - Liquid Weld; this is a fabulous adhesive and even works occasionally on hard rubber. I used it once to repair a clip screw on a Swan. This was the type of screw, used on some mid-1930s Leverless pens, that accommodates the forked-type clip in a slot - a weak point and of course this is where the screw had broken.

 

It took three attempts, but when finally done was bomb-proof: I was able to tighten and unscrew the screw without problems.

 

Cob

fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


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Just got a nice chuckle

 

Tried to look up Liquid Weld. No good links in the US. Searched "Liquid Weld England"

 

Half way down the page was a demo video, so I clicked.

 

Second comment is some bloke named Paul commenting on vulcanite!

 

Click here for a screen shot

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That's the stuff Greenie. I know it all looks a bit Mickey Mouse, but I learned about the stuff form Dr Oldfield's pen repair manual. It has been a great success, glueing all sorts of things very successfully.

 

I should add that it doesn't always work; probably one should use some sort of solvent ont he Vulcanite before glueing, but I cannot imagine what that solvent might be. I have never been able to glue together a broken feed.

 

Cob

Edited by Cob

fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


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