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Cleaning Residue From Prolonged Iron Gall Exposure.

iron gall residue cleaning

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30 replies to this topic

#21 pgary

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 07:51

Thank you, El Gordo.
I will show you again how to clean a fountain pen with iron gall ink stains.
Thank you for your time.


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#22 ksm

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 08:50

An update:
 
On Polish fountain pen users forum (registration only, and exclusively in Polish) we recently had a discussion IG stain removal. It was heated and at some point became to technical even for me. The conclusions were:
  • Ascorbic acid is better choice, because unlike citric acid is does not cause corrosion in steel (actually ascorbic acid is corrosion inhibitor).
  • Schematics of iron bonding to ascorbic acid mentioned in @pgary's blog, are much oversimplified, the left one is only one of postulated configurations, while the right one is physically impossible because of spherical dimensions of atoms involved.
  • One uses 0.5g of pure L-ascorbic acid (or about 0.3ml) per 50ml of water.

Edited by ksm, 07 March 2017 - 08:52.


#23 Chrissy

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 09:08

Has anyone ever tried to clean the inside of a Montblanc barrel window using this method? Is it safe to fill the pen with the solution through the nib as normal?



#24 ksm

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 09:20

Agnieszka (Mrs KWZI) assured me that ascorbic acid solution is perfectly safe for plastic, but we were talking about celluloid and materials used in Pelikan M200 and modern Aurora 88.
 
[irony=on]
I'm not sure if that mysterious prestige ingredient of precious resin does not cause it to melt unless it is cleaned by authorised service centre.
[/irony]

Edited by ksm, 07 March 2017 - 21:20.


#25 pgary

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 05:10

Hi ksm.,

 

Thank you for your comment.
I agree that the formula is oversimplified.
How do you think you should draw it?
 
P.S.
I have read your KWZ ink development story in a Japanese stationery magazine (Syumi no bungubako).
It's so interesting!


#26 ksm

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 07:54

I agree that the formula is oversimplified.
How do you think you should draw it?


Sorry, I'm just a programmer, reporting on discussion. Chemistry is not my area of expertise.
 

I have read your KWZ ink development story in a Japanese stationery magazine (Syumi no bungubako).
It's so interesting!


Don't know what You are talking about. The article is not mine. Repeat I'm just a happy user of Konrad's products, not a chemist nor a blogger/reviewer.

PS. @pgary: In your profile you've mentioned that Pilot VP is one of your favourite pens. Do you use it with IG inks? Did you have any problems related to use of IG inks in VP?

#27 pgary

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 09:24

Hi ksm.,
 
Sorry, I mistook that you are Mr. KWZI.
Since KWZ ink will be released soon in Japan, Mr. KWZI and Mrs. KWZI were on the Japanese stationery magazine.
 
If you don't mind, could you please talk about how may draw the chemical formula on the Polish fountain pen forum? I would like to know how draw best chemical formula.
 
I haven't changed my profile for years. Recently, I don't use a Pilot VP, in those days, I was using a Pilot cartridge BB or blue ink.


#28 kwzi

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 09:42

 

Hi ksm.,

 

Thank you for your comment.
I agree that the formula is oversimplified.
How do you think you should draw it?
 
P.S.
I have read your KWZ ink development story in a Japanese stationery magazine (Syumi no bungubako).
It's so interesting!

 

 

Hi pgary,

 

It is very hard to determine the exact structure of IG complexes in IG ink as they are amorphous, and contain variable amount of water after precipitating from solution. Also whatever iron sulphate, iron chloride or other iron salt was used for synthesis can give a different product. Nevertheless single gallic acid molecule can complex single iron atom with maximum 2 hydroxyl groups. Also carboxyl group complexes iron atoms as a bridging ligand, which is rarely shown. In total depending on ratio of gallic acid to iron single gallic acid molecule complexes from 3 to 4 different iron atoms. Also at least one hydroxyl group is not deprotonated. 


I have a lot of tape - and I won't hesitate to use it!

#29 Tasmith

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 14:44

 

Especially with KWZ being a Polish company. In Chicago, every Polish housekeeper I've known/employed has had a love affair with vinegar-based cleaners. I too would've assumed that vinegar would be the preferred option.  ;)

Heinz makes a Cleaning Vinegar that has a special cleaning strength of 6% acidity.

 

Works great and I prefer it over over harsher household cleaners.



#30 frankb3

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 04:49

Heinz makes a Cleaning Vinegar that has a special cleaning strength of 6% acidity.

 

Works great and I prefer it over over harsher household cleaners.

 

Try 30% acetic acid vinegar: https://www.factoryd...gar-omri-listed

(I haven't tried it ... yet).



#31 pgary

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 10:28

Hi kwzi.,
 
Are you real Dr. Konrad?
Nice to meet you! I am glad to meet the developer of KWZ inks.
Many people are looking forward to release KWZ inks  in Japan.
 
Thank you for your teaching.
I understand that it is difficult to determine the exact structure of IG complexes.
Do you have any idea to draw figure it as accurate as possible and as simple as possible? l would like to correct my image.
 
On another note, I am glad that you also recommend to clean IG ink with ascorbic acid. I am very encouraged by that.






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