Dawn Dishwashing Detergent?

[tadas]

Dishwashing detergent is commonly mentioned as a good thing for cleaning fountain pens, and as something that can improve ink flow (surfectant) with a couple of drops added to the ink.

 

Invariably, the folks I always pay attention to (like our esteemed moderator, Ron Zorn) seem to mention "Dawn dishwashing detergent" specifically, and not just "dishwashing detergent". I mention Ron in particular, as he is always careful to talk about the chemistry and other tradeoffs of various substances people ask about using in FP repair, and doesn't hesitate to point out differences in similarly-named products.

 

Is that force of habit, or is there some magic to Dawn that makes it better to use for cleaning or as a surfectant than, say Safeway brand dishwashing liquid, or, more to the point, some of the "natural" dishwashing liquids that tout no dyes or perfumes?

 

If Dawn is definitely the way to go, which type should I get? I took a look at my supermarket dishwashing liquid shelf, and there were about 8 or 10 different "Dawn" products.

 

Not a major problem, but something I always wondered about.

[Sailor Kenshin]

1. Yes, it's magic.

 

2. You're looking for the original Blue Dawn.

 

Simple, right?

[Doug1426]

Hey, if it works to clean oil off of birds, it should be good for our pens, right?

[torstar]

i keep it to the generic formulas, anything boasting of atomic grime cutting power might not be best for my pens.

[Barkingpig]

I have often wondered same: is there any difference between "Palmolive or Dawn" or between "JB's Pen Flush or Goulets"? Could a bottle of "Fairy Liquid," I brought home from UK, when such things were still possible to toss into one of your SIX bags of luggage, be any different for same use?

 

I admit to purchasing "Goulet's Pen Flush," during one of my early orders from them, but have since "made my own," from recipe found here."

[Ron Z]

Dawn has been used for cleaning pens along with a bit of ammonia for a long time now. It's not habit, but generally accepted by repair people (many who have been doing it longer than I have) because there haven't been any cases of damage from using it. Some detergents can damage a nib. Dawn has been proven to be safe, so that's what we use. Note that it's only a couple of drops in a small glass of water, so not a lot. But it does work well as a pen flush to remove the ink left behind after rinsing.

[inkstainedruth]

I don't know whether it's that Dawn has degreasing agents in it or what, but once my mom discovered it she never bought another brand of dish detergent. And I follow her lead. (One thing to note in general -- this is a case where the "house" brands/discount brands are NOT as good as the name brand; aluminum foil being another case, but I digress...).

As for its use in flushing pens, I use it because it's what other people here had recommended (and it's what's normally in my house). Like Ron said, a drop or two is sufficient, and then needs to be flushed out well. Some people say tap water is sufficient, but I use distilled water because I see the crud that builds up around the fixtures and I do NOT want that same sort of buildup in a pen feed....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Sasha Royale]

A major concern would be the addition of skin lotions and perfumes. Some may affect ink flow, even clog. Certainly, lotions are intended to leave a coating of some sort. Original blue DAWN is effective and safe. There are likely others, DAWN for certain. (Great for dishes and oil-covered pelicans, too.)

[Sandy1]

Hi,

 

From one of my prior posts: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/266828-diamine-registrars-ink-and-other-modern-iron-galls/?p=2997722

... "One reason I do not support long-term use of washing-up liquid is that the ingredients and potency can vary tremendously. Other reasons have to do with the inclusion of 'grease cutters' which may be quite aggressive, especially for vintage/sac/diaphragm pens; and the persistent 'finishing agents' that give a spot-free shiny appearance can make for problems with ink flow by altering the ink chemistry (contamination) and/or the surface properties (wet-ability) of the nib, feed & collector."

 

​While grease cutters might be invaluable for eliminating manufacturing residue, that's a one-time deal.

 

When dealing with persistent inks, such as Noodler's 54M* and/or high dye load inks in pens that are tedious to cleanse**, pass me the jar of technical pen cleaner, such as Koh-i-Noor Rapido-Eze.

 

​I have a similar approach to the use of washing-up liquid vs. a benign surfactant to increase ink flow: Do the most with the least risk exposure.

 

Bye,

S1

 

__ __

* https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/255965-noodlers-54-massachusetts/?p=2825711 Includes references to kilts.

 

** https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/244152-easiesthardest-pen-in-your-collection-to-clean-for-ink-changing/?p=2658017 (To date no references to kilts.)

Edited February 17, 2017 by Sandy1

[tadas]

 

From one of my prior posts: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/266828-diamine-registrars-ink-and-other-modern-iron-galls/?p=2997722

... "One reason I do not support long-term use of washing-up liquid is that the ingredients and potency can vary tremendously. Other reasons have to do with the inclusion of 'grease cutters' which may be quite aggressive, especially for vintage/sac/diaphragm pens; and the persistent 'finishing agents' that give a spot-free shiny appearance can make for problems with ink flow by altering the ink chemistry (contamination) and/or the surface properties (wet-ability) of the nib, feed & collector."

 

Sandy -

 

I agree with your caution. That's why I'm impressed when folks whom I know are equally cautious, such as Ron Zorn, endorse using the product by specific brand name and cite a long history of trouble-free use.

 

I want to thank everyone who responded. I bought a bottle of Dawn Original earlier today.

 

Tadas

[Sandy1]

Sandy -

 

I agree with your caution. That's why I'm impressed when folks whom I know are equally cautious, such as Ron Zorn, endorse using the product by specific brand name and cite a long history of trouble-free use.

 

I want to thank everyone who responded. I bought a bottle of Dawn Original earlier today.

 

Tadas

 

 

 

Hi,

 

Sometimes my cautions are rather loud, but I hope not overstated. And for that I intend to keep Members from running aground.

 

I have more than a few pens restored by the esteemed Mr Zorn. All are magnificent - I'm tickled pink - though I prefer Visconti Blue in his narrow nib Snorkies. (I'm just their custodian.)

 

Bye,

S1

Edited February 18, 2017 by Sandy1

[Zeeppo]

I found an old Parker 51 at an estate sale. Because of the way the auctioneer was selling stuff I did not get inspect it. I bought it for 25 dollars and was heart broken to see that it's owner had left ink in to dry (It might have taken years considering how good the seal is on these pens.). Filled it with dawn and water and let it set over night. Some fiddling and flushing it the next day and it now works like a champ.

 

Everyone is right about using the blue dawn or the eco friendly stuff they clean critters with after oil spills.

[Mercian]

Could a bottle of "Fairy Liquid," I brought home from UK....

 

This is Off-topic, but why did you want to take a bottle of British dish detergent back to the US?

 

If you were to take home specifically-British products such as PG Tips/Typhoo teabags, HP Sauce, Cadbury chocolate bars, Irn-Bru, or Marmite I could understand, because they are hard to come by on your side of the pond, but dish detergent?

 

What was its unique appeal?

[the_gasman]

Which washing-up liquid [that's what we call it over here] do folk in the UK use? A search through the Sainsbury's website suggests that they don't sell Dawn.

 

I use "Fairy" but must admit that I had never thought to consider additives and their effect on pens. I had always assumed that a dose of detergent sufficient to lower the surface tension to a useful extent would be harmless to my beloveds.

 

Cheers,

David.

Edited March 23, 2017 by the_gasman

[Misfit]

Hey, if it works to clean oil off of birds, it should be good for our pens, right?

 

+1

 

It is a true statement that you'll need to use more of a generic dish soap to get your dishes clean vs Dawn.

[Sandy1]

Hey, if it works to clean oil off of birds, it should be good for our pens, right?

 

 

Hi,

 

Apples and oranges: pens are not birds - not even our beloved Pelikans.

 

Bye,

S1

[pajaro]

I have quit using this kind of material in pens. I have various pens, and no idea when one of these detergents or flushes might disagree with the pen material. I flush with water, and try to keep it at room temperature. I don't even use ammonia, because the fumes are obnoxious. The last time I had a pen with dried, caked ink, I used a Water Pik with warm water, very carefully. I think it was the red inks issues talked about here that did it for me.

[Brianm_14]

Dawn is universally accepted as the best handwashing dish detergent available. It works as a very effective cleaner through using multiple, albeit more expensive agents; this combination is what makes it unique. (We know this because the manufacturer has made the list of ingredients available.) Blue Dawn is thus both mild and a good cleaner because it's surfactant package is cleverly designed to be uniquely synergistic. It works well on a variety of soils, keeping them suspended so that they as well as all traces of Dawn can be completely rinsed away. You only need a trace of Dawn to clean pens, by wetting the dirt or old ink.

 

Dawn contains no oils, greases, or other questionable agents intended "to soften the skin" (which is more of an advertising ploy than dermatological marvel) so it will not attack plastics or rubber. Thus fears about Dawn having a pernicious effect on pens are unfounded and misplaced. I've used it in the lab for critical cleaning applications when we've run short of our specialized cleaners. What more can I say? What Tide is to laundry detergents, blue Dawn is to handwahing dish detergents, the standard by which all others are measured. I've even used a very dilute solution in distilled water to successfully make a good lens cleaning solution for microscopes.

 

So hats off to Dawn! It'll clean your dishes and your dog!

[RayCornett]

I normally make a 10% ammonia and distilled water flush and a 30% version for really stubborn stuff. I no longer use dish liquid because I really have noticed no difference with it added compared to when it was just ammonia and water. But when I did add it to my flush it was just enough to the jug(I made a gallon at a time) to make suds when shaken. Usually took very little.

But the more I read the more careful and concerned I become about using ammonia.

[bobje]

Wow, Brian, thank you for summarizing the advantages of Dawn. Where did you learn so many details?