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Sailor Kiwa-Guro Nano Carbon Ink

sailor inks kiwa-guro pigment sumi dip pens carbon ink

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#1 Scriptorius

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 18:43

I recently purchased a few bottles of Sailor's Kiwa-Guro Nano Carbon Ink and absolutely love the stuff in my fountain pens.   Even the smell is awesome.  I'm curious though if there's a downside to using an ink like this for dip pens?   How well does this ink work relative to the Iron Gall and Oak Gall inks that so many calligraphers use with their dip pens?   

Anyone?

 

 

sailor_black.jpg


Edited by Scriptorius, 02 February 2017 - 19:44.


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#2 smk

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 22:35

This ink is different from the majority of FP inks in that it is pigment based i.e. solid particles of pigment in a suspension. Typically these kinds of inks e.g. Sumi, would not work well in FP's as the solid particles will, over time, clog the very fine pathways in the feeds used for air and ink. This ink is formulated specially for fountain pens and will not clog feeds.

 

Dip pens don't have feeds so the clogging issue does not occur there. However, fountain pen inks usually have additives used to aid flow. These additives work by reducing the surface tension of the fluid (like soapy water). This might not work very well with dip pens as the ink might flow uncontrollably off the nib. This can be mitigated to some degree by writing on a sloped surface (in case of broad edged script) that reduces the nib angle but chances are you will still have some issues. The degree of this 'problem' varies from ink to ink even within the same brand.

 

Iron Gall inks are different - these are neither dye, nor pigment based. Iron Gall inks are made by a reaction of Iron Sulphate and Tannic acid that results in a fluid that 'produces' black pigment on exposure to air (i.e. when it reacts with the Oxygen in the air). For dip pens, the flow of such inks is controlled by adding Gum Arabic which is traditionally used as a binder but doesn't work like that for IG inks.

 

I have not used this ink so don't know how it compares to IG ink but rest assured that it will not harm your dip pens.

 

I hope this answers your question :-)

 

- Salman



#3 Scriptorius

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Posted 03 February 2017 - 00:32

Salman:

 

Thanks for your response here and in The Flourishing Forum.   It's exactly the information I needed.

 

 

Krapprot



#4 dcwaites

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Posted 03 February 2017 - 02:20

I haven't used it in a dip pen, so I can't speak to whether it is too wet for a dip pen, or if it is ok.

However, carbon based inks have been known to last over 2,000 years in storage, while iron gall inks, depending on how they were made, may only last a few hundred to a thousand years before fading.


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#5 Scriptorius

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Posted 03 February 2017 - 17:19

I haven't used it in a dip pen, so I can't speak to whether it is too wet for a dip pen, or if it is ok.

However, carbon based inks have been known to last over 2,000 years in storage, while iron gall inks, depending on how they were made, may only last a few hundred to a thousand years before fading.

 

That's certainly interesting information.   I doubt however that I'm going to be concerned about fading ink in another 40 years when I'm six feet under. 


Edited by Scriptorius, 03 February 2017 - 17:20.


#6 Randal6393

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Posted 03 February 2017 - 21:47

I use carbon inks occasionally and iron-gall inks often. Both have good fountain-pen formulations and work well. The only caveat is that cleaning every so often is recommended. Sailor Kiwa-Guro is quite close to the Platinum Carbon Black that I normally use.

 

Normally use Platinum Carbon Black for fine lines on work that will be coloured in. Waterproof after drying and smudging is minimal.

 

Iron-gall inks, either for dip pen or fountain pen, look lovely and give a classic feel to any document.

 

Enjoy,


Edited by Randal6393, 03 February 2017 - 21:49.

Yours,
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From a person's actions, we may infer attitudes, beliefs, --- and values. We do not know these characteristics outright. The human dichotomies of trust and distrust, honor and duplicity, love and hate --- all depend on internal states we cannot directly experience. Isn't this what adds zest to our life?
 


#7 dcwaites

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Posted 03 February 2017 - 22:18

I decided to try the Sailor Kiwaguro ink, along with a few others, on Fuji-Xerox Sustainable Environment 85 gsm paper, using an Eagle Pens E10 Falcon dip pen nib. No fancy calligraphy, just normal handwriting.

 

These are all dryish inks that in the past I have found work well in dip pens in general. Wet inks like Waterman Florida/Serenity Blue are just too wet to use in dip pens.

 

fpn_1486159988__dippinginks.jpeg

 

I re-did the Parker Quink Black, as the first bottle I used had evaporated somewhat, and was a bit thick and gloopy.

As you can see, the Sailor Kiwaguro is as good as any of the inks in the sample, if not better. 

 

Click on the image to see it full size.


Edited by dcwaites, 03 February 2017 - 22:18.

fpn_1412827311__pg_d_104def64.gif

 

 

“Them as can do has to do for them as can’t.

And someone has to speak up for them as has no voices.”

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#8 Scriptorius

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 20:49

I decided to try the Sailor Kiwaguro ink, along with a few others, on Fuji-Xerox Sustainable Environment 85 gsm paper, using an Eagle Pens E10 Falcon dip pen nib. No fancy calligraphy, just normal handwriting.

 

As you can see, the Sailor Kiwaguro is as good as any of the inks in the sample, if not better. 

 

 

David:

 

It's great to see the comparison, although I must admit that Kiwa-Guro is much blacker for me than it appears here.   I find it to be just as dark as Platinum Carbon Black, but without PCB's feathering problem on papers like the Fuji-Xerox you're using.

 

Out of curiosity, have you ever tried J. Herbin's Éclat De Saphir alongside your other bright blue inks?   If not, I think you'll be happy with what you see.   It rivals Noodler's Baystate Blue in its intensity, but without all of Baystate's headaches.   EDS will likely always be my go to blue.   Another plus is that it's also available in 100ml refill bottles for topping off the 30ml bottles as you see in the photo below.   I believe I paid about $18.70/each (US) for the last 100ml bottles I picked up.   It's worth every penny.

 

 

0d21f649233c51df0b62b41cf637ed45.jpg

 

 

--Scriptorius


Edited by Scriptorius, 04 February 2017 - 21:03.


#9 dcwaites

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 21:47

 

David:

 

It's great to see the comparison, although I must admit that Kiwa-Guro is much blacker for me than it appears here.   I find it to be just as dark as Platinum Carbon Black, but without PCB's feathering problem on papers like the Fuji-Xerox you're using.

 

Out of curiosity, have you ever tried J. Herbin's Éclat De Saphir alongside your other bright blue inks?   If not, I think you'll be happy with what you see.   It rivals Noodler's Baystate Blue in its intensity, but without all of Baystate's headaches.   EDS will likely always be my go to blue.   Another plus is that it's also available in 100ml refill bottles for topping off the 30ml bottles as you see in the photo below.   I believe I paid about $18.70/each (US) for the last 100ml bottles I picked up.   It's worth every penny.

 

 

0d21f649233c51df0b62b41cf637ed45.jpg

 

 

--Scriptorius

 

It really does depend on the pen you're using. The Falcon pen I used is relatively dry compared to most calligraphy pens, and so puts down less ink. Depending on the light, Kiwaguro can change from matt black to a deep, dark, pure, but not shiny, black.

 

I have Eclat de Saphir, but it is a bit too purple for my taste.

 

At the moment, for normal writing with a dip pen, I find that the Pelikan 4001 Royal Blue about perfect. Beautiful colour, excellent behaviour. 


fpn_1412827311__pg_d_104def64.gif

 

 

“Them as can do has to do for them as can’t.

And someone has to speak up for them as has no voices.”

Granny Aching


#10 Scriptorius

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 18:28

And for me, that cusp between blue and purple is about as good as it gets.   These are staring back at me most of the day when I'm working.   I absolutely love the color.

 

K

 

**************

 

bluebot.jpg


Edited by Scriptorius, 08 February 2017 - 18:48.


#11 Sleebus

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 18:48

Hm, you may want to look at Private Reserve's Cosmic Cobalt if you haven't already.



#12 Scriptorius

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 03:14

Hm, you may want to look at Private Reserve's Cosmic Cobalt if you haven't already.

 

I wasn't aware of it.   I'll check it out.   Thanks.

 

Update:  I just did.   It's a little too primary blue for my tastes.   It's definitely classic Cobalt, not the Ultramarine I prefer.  Eclat de Saphir is much more appealing to me because it pushes in the direction of violet and has a great vibrancy.  Baystate appears to be the perfect combination of both, however it's just too damaging to pens.

 

 

pr41-cc-3T.jpg  eclat.jpg  sample-19048-2T.jpg


Edited by Scriptorius, 09 February 2017 - 03:42.






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